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#4277616 - 07/09/16 02:45 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: Allen]  
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Originally Posted By: Allen
Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
you can prolly undervolt and still overclock the gpu.


Seems true.

Using WattMan, I reduced voltage (microscopically), reduced allowable GPU temperature 5C, and increased allowable power draw 20 percent -- while setting the max clock to 1300GHz (from 1266).

Now, a card that cycled between roughly 1150+ to 1260 runs almost constantly at 1300 (during a game) and runs cooler.

The 4GB RX-480 is looking better and better for the money (on paper). So far, nothing I've run has used more than 2GB of RX-480 RAM. I assumed the 8GB RAM was overkill -- so far, it is -- 4GB seems enough (at least for 1440p in my recent games).



All us AMD Enthusiasts on another forum have been plugging away, even after the reviews saying the complete opposite of AiB Lab techs in regards to Overclocking.


So Far, they've gotten better overclocking by Undervolting the GPU.

The Reviews Power Draw numbers during benchmarks etc had us all looking at each other, why a 14nm Chip would require a 1150-1225mv to sustain 1200MHz....

Then when they tried to overclock the thing, they already had too much voltaqge going to the chip, causing more heat than needed, so of course the thing wouldnt overclock stable, it already had a too much mv going through it, and when they overclocked it, they pumped even more into it.

Some of the reviewers had a higher mV going to that lil GPU than I did going to my Lightnings (28nm Gen 1 7970s)


One Guy actually Undervolted and flashed the 4GB BIOS to his to disable 4GB of the Power Hungry Ram until he actually has a need for it.

And is running 1450Mhz on the GPU w/ stock cooling and staying under 70^c

Last edited by SkateZilla; 07/09/16 02:47 PM.

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#4277747 - 07/09/16 10:39 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Based on what you said just above, I tried some more overclocking experiments. I did not do so good a job that I would "stand behind" my results. But, the results were interesting.

In a nutshell: For a given Frequency (MHz), there is an ideal maximum voltage and an ideal maximum power setting. That is: More power or less power gives LOWER FPS. More voltage or less voltage gives LOWER FPS. We're only talking 1 or 2 FPS -- say the difference between 55FPS and 57FPS (in my limited tests).

Lower maximum voltage and lower maximum Power (above normal power) generally do lead to higher FPS in the range I tested (until one hits the optimum).

Lower voltage and lower maximum power lead to much lower temperatures.

In other words, setting maximum over power (50 percent) and maximum volts (approximately 1.175) will make things hot, but may not give maximum FPS.

Right now, I'm running at 1315GHz maximum, 1.100V maximum, 20% over nominal power -- very conservative -- not trying to set records. This gives me almost 50 percent more FPS (at most) than I got with my HD7970.


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#4277851 - 07/10/16 10:58 AM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: Paradaz]  
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Originally Posted By: Paradaz
It's widely accepted that AMDs drivers in the past haven't been great, they certainly haven't been as regular to keep up with the flow of games. Asd I said I my last card was a 290X about 2 years ago so unless it's drastically improved since then it's perfectly valid - I certainly don't recall AMD offering day 1 driver updates for the latest games but could be mistaken.

Trumping by Nvidia?... well that's fact in terms of performance. You can roll your eyes as much as you want but I'm speaking from experience from owning most of AMDs and Nvidia cards in recent years...buying and selling one level behind the top-end curve - AMD have always released value for money cards which is why I plumped for the 7970 and 290X at the time, however Nvidia have always had the card for pure performance - granted, they have often gone for brute horsepower than efficiency but whether you look to the 290/390 or Fury X of recent years Nvidia have always had an equivalent pushing better frame rates in most games, only the most ardent fanboy would even attempt to argue that.

In terms of current cards I'm going off Skate/Allen's posts above.....the R480 isn't challenging the 1080 and it was never attempting or designed to, however if the 490 is going to be the card to challenge the 1080 as discussed above then it's not going to be challenging top end performance because the 1080Ti is going to push the bar much higher than it is now. There's nothing fanboy about saying that whatsoever, we have no idea what the RX490 or 1080GTX performance will really be but like I said it's a comment based on what the guys above are saying. Perhaps you think the RX490 will have performance above and beyond the current GTX1080?

Sounds like you just want an argument for the sake of it which wouldn't be the first time. Perhaps you need to discuss it further with Skate/Allen because RX490 performance that matches GTX 1080 in a few months time isn't going to get everyone that excited if the 1080Ti is another level above.




What is widely accepted and what is true is two completely different things. Day 1 drivers aren't as important as drivers that don't burn your cards.

As for your value for money argument, I think you're misremembering things, the 7970 ghz was better than the 680 and the 7970 equal to the 670, they were the top cards of their generation. Nvidia releasing better cards right after AMD releases only happened with the 780ti (and this wasn't that much better than the 7970 ghz) and the 980ti, and I would hardly call that a tradition.

Quote:
but whether you look to the 290/390 or Fury X of recent years


Well, that is recent years. The 290/390 and Fury X are recent years, you don't have other examples other than those.

As for who wants the argument or not, well, your posts talk for themselves. I told you one thing, wait for the benchmarks.

Last edited by Remon; 07/10/16 11:01 AM.
#4277858 - 07/10/16 11:58 AM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: Remon]  
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Originally Posted By: Remon


As for your value for money argument, I think you're misremembering things, the 7970 ghz was better than the 680 and the 7970 equal to the 670, they were the top cards of their generation. Nvidia releasing better cards right after AMD releases only happened with the 780ti (and this wasn't that much better than the 7970 ghz) and the 980ti, and I would hardly call that a tradition.


Are you looking at someone else's post?...disregarding all the nonsense in your post above the only point where I even bring up 'value for money' is where I stated that AMD have always released value for money GPUs. Value for money however doesn't always equal performance and the RX480 is a great example of that......$199-$249 is brilliant value for money if budget is one of your major concerns for the power it brings, but not if you're trying to drive the latest games at max settings with a 1440p monitor or targeting 90fps with a VR headset then it doesn't matter what bang for buck you're getting because it wouldn't be up to the job. It's all relative.

You just lost all credability by stating that the 780ti wasn't much better than the 7970 GHz... It probably depends on what your definition of 'close' is because the 780ti was competing with and beating the 290X.



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#4277865 - 07/10/16 12:56 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Quote:
You just lost all credability by stating that the 780ti wasn't much better than the 7970 GHz... It probably depends on what your definition of 'close' is because the 780ti was competing and beating the 290X.


Meant to say 290x. I think it's clear it was a mistake.

Quote:
disregarding all the nonsense in your post above the only point where I even bring up 'value for money' is where I stated that AMD have always released value for money GPUs. Value for money however doesn't always equal performance and the RX480 is a great example of that


Do you really want to continue with this stupid argument? No, AMD doesn't always release value for money cards. The 7970ghz wasn't value for money, it cost the same as the 680, the normal 7970 released even higher priced.

Last edited by Remon; 07/10/16 12:57 PM.
#4277882 - 07/10/16 02:38 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: Remon]  
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Originally Posted By: Remon
Do you really want to continue with this stupid argument? No, AMD doesn't always release value for money cards. The 7970ghz wasn't value for money, it cost the same as the 680, the normal 7970 released even higher priced.


You've just answered the point that you're arguing yourself......the 7970GHz cost the same as the 680 (and often came in cheaper) yet it was more efficient and had the slight edge and therefore better bang for buck. This is the same reason why I and many others bought the 7970 GHz over the competing Nvidia card at the time. The 7970 released 6 months before that...of course it was going to be priced higher on release.

Everyone's mileage of 'value for money' may vary but we're talking about equivalent AMD and Nvidia cards here. The 7970 GHz was a no brainer as were the 290X which clocked past the 390 and into 390X territory for much less money in comparison to competing Nvidia cards. It was only when the 780ti came along and then the GTX 970 that Nvidia trumped these cards by a good margin.

Like I said, you're arguing for argument sake and making silly mistakes along the way. Who would guess you were talking about the 290X earlier when you mentioned the 7970GHz. You've been talking nonsense for a few posts now.



On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4277895 - 07/10/16 03:50 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: Paradaz]  
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No. Value for money is a condescending term that people like to throw around for AMD, because it makes them sound cheap. You use it that way, since I haven't seen you use it to describe 970, for example.

Look, if I liked to argue for the sake of argument I would make meaningless long ass posts repeating the same over and over. I'm not the one doing that. Anyway, I'll show you who's doing this for the sake of argument by doing something you can't do. I won't be answering any more of your posts.

Last edited by Remon; 07/10/16 03:55 PM.
#4277899 - 07/10/16 04:07 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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It looks like the 1060 isn't as close to 980 as Nvidia claims.

http://videocardz.com/62086/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1060-rumors-part-5-full-specs-2-0-ghz-overclocking

The 480 paired with a worse CPU beats it, by a good margin.

The article isn't exactly unbiased too, they claim that in OpenCL the 1060 is better than the 970 and the 480, but the picture they use has it losing to the 480 in 5 out of 7 tests. OpenCL is of course AMDs field, but it is much closer to the 970 (even losing to it once) than the 980.




Last edited by Remon; 07/10/16 05:51 PM.
#4277914 - 07/10/16 04:39 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: Remon]  
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Originally Posted By: Remon
No. Value for money is a condescending term that people like to throw around for AMD, because it makes them sound cheap. You use it that way, since I haven't seen you use it to describe 970, for example.


Don't be daft, many people talk about 'value for money' and 'bang for buck'....it means exactly that. I don't care who manufactures a GPU, I make a choice based on performance, cost or both depending on my needs at the time and over the years that has switched between AMD and Nvidia depending on which particular card fits best. Value for money has come into these decisions on a number of occasions....and yes, I'd say AMD has won the 'value for money' trophy on a number of occasions because Nvidia is often a complete rip-off.

Originally Posted By: Remon
Anyway, I'll show you who's doing this for the sake of argument by doing something you can't do. I won't be answering any more of your posts.


I tend not to answer my own posts anyway so it's not an issue. thumbsup

As for your RX480 and GTX 1060 comparison.....have you got anything that's actually meaningful given this is a gaming/simulation website? Perhaps you should wait for some valid benchmarking - in current games for example. winkngrin That's rhetoric obviously....I know you won't be replying so I'll wait for someone who knows what they're talking about to provide the links when they become available.


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#4278177 - 07/11/16 05:07 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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My neighbor scored a RX-480 4GB for $159 locally, I asked him to snag me one, but he went back and the rest (4 or 5) were already gone.


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#4278186 - 07/11/16 05:21 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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He should have bought the lot that price on the first visit!


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#4278207 - 07/11/16 06:00 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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he couldnt afford it on his own, had to come pick me up, I went back with him to buy at least 2, all gone.

Last edited by SkateZilla; 07/11/16 06:01 PM.

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#4278263 - 07/11/16 08:43 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Doom released the Vulkan patch, AMD cards getting a huge bump in performance.

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/new_patch_brings_vulkan_support_to_doom.html

Last edited by Remon; 07/11/16 08:45 PM.
#4278440 - 07/12/16 03:23 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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#4278451 - 07/12/16 03:51 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Interesting.

They're showing 1317MHz max boost with a custom cooler and custom main-board.

Since last posting on my speed, I've settled on 1320MHz "virtually" full time in games and benchmarks. At reduced voltage it runs cooler than it did "as received".

However, at only $10 more than I paid, getting the boost "as received", advanced cooler, custom motherboard, and an 8 pin connector seems well worth it. It should overclock higher than mine and run quieter and safer.

Nonetheless, a 10 percent overclock FPS boost will not normally be "visible" only "measurable". So, it would have to get into the the 1450MHz range to even start to make a difference that one might "see" in special cases (vs my 1320).

Now, the RX-480 4GB at $159 your friend found seems "unbeatable bang for buck" smile


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#4278482 - 07/12/16 05:54 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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#4278973 - 07/14/16 04:33 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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AMD is now working directly with developers to build DX12 Renderers with full support for EMA and ASC.

Basically making Dual Rx470s in EMA relevant.

Last edited by SkateZilla; 07/14/16 04:38 PM.

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#4279115 - 07/15/16 03:49 AM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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I got 3DMark Time Spy DX12 free version (I own full DX11 Firestrike). Ran it on RX-480. It runs automatically at 1440p.

I got good, visibly-smooth frame rates with the demo and first graphics test. The second graphics test was smooth to almost smooth most of the time -- down to 10fps occasionally. The CPU test gave smooth frame rates.

The exact numbers mean little to others as we all have different systems. However, Time Spy benchmark is reported to have "far more" complexity than Firestrike -- and uses advanced GPU features. So, all in all, the DX12 visible performance of my RX-480 was mostly "very good to usable" in the benchmark. I assume the benchmark is tougher than a game -- I'll see eventually.


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#4279247 - 07/15/16 03:01 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Civ 6 and Ashes of Singularity are DX12,

As is Forza 6 APEX (Free on Windows 10)


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#4280969 - 07/22/16 06:28 PM Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... [Re: SkateZilla]  
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