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#4272191 - 06/22/16 12:02 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: SkateZilla]  
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cichlidfan Offline
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Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
You can still login.


Then what? You aren't going to PM anyone.


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#4272265 - 06/22/16 12:40 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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Jedi Master Offline
Entil'zha
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Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel

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All forum software has that "feature"--banned users cannot communicate with mods unless they have an email address, which the mods rarely provided.
It's lovely not being able to appeal a sentence until after it's served, at which point it's moot.





The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4272267 - 06/22/16 12:48 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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Tom_Weiss Offline
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I am sure you could start a medium sized forum with all the people they have banned over the years, including among them some of the best skin and mod makers hahaha

Probably those that run that forum never looked into the how much revenue they lose for every ban, because most people after being banned leave the community and never again buy any of their products.

#4272483 - 06/23/16 04:36 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Tom_Weiss]  
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Zoomie13 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tom_Weiss
I am sure you could start a medium sized forum with all the people they have banned over the years, including among them some of the best skin and mod makers hahaha

If you do say so yourself..? biggrin

Originally Posted By: Tom_Weiss
Probably those that run that forum never looked into the how much revenue they lose for every ban, because most people after being banned leave the community and never again buy any of their products.

How much revenue do you think they might lose if they allowed potential new customers to come upon a forum where a small number of people constantly post that the product is no good and the developer is "incompetent"?

Whether there is truth or not, the extremely vocal minority seem to try to skew the narrative in favour of their "opinion" instead of actually trying to participate in constructive discussion. A potential new customer would probably just quit and not bother instead of wading through all that chaff...

#4272537 - 06/23/16 11:55 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Zoomie13]  
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Johnny_Redd Offline
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Originally Posted By: Zoomie13

How much revenue do you think they might lose if they allowed potential new customers to come upon a forum where a small number of people constantly post that the product is no good and the developer is "incompetent"?

Whether there is truth or not, the extremely vocal minority seem to try to skew the narrative in favour of their "opinion" instead of actually trying to participate in constructive discussion. A potential new customer would probably just quit and not bother instead of wading through all that chaff...


How much revenue do you think they'd gain if they weren't so incompetent?
Whether you like it or not, some folk are unhappy with the products they've purchased. They're unhappy with the rate of development of those products. For those folk they have not received value for money. The debacles of the hawk and c101 have been allowed to continue for too long. A potential new customer is going to be very disappointed if they purchase those 2 aircraft. We all know theyre "beta" products but seriously! Anyone reading those forums is going to think the products have small teething problems. Do you think that is fair to existing customers and potential customers?
The P40 was pulled and sits gathering dust on a hard drive somewhere while the "early access money" paid for it does what? How about refunding those customers? They've paid for a product that to all intents and purposes is at this moment no longer in development.

Last edited by Johnny_Redd; 06/23/16 12:07 PM.

DCS Kickstarter
Wags July 2014 "In this July 2014 update, the primary news is in regards to the restructured backer rewards. After a careful review of the older system under RRG, we found it financially unattainable."
Wags October 2017 "the investment vs. generated revenue has been excellent for the World War II aircraft. In fact, the P-51D Mustang has twice the cost effectiveness of the A-10C Warthog."
#4272544 - 06/23/16 12:46 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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Remon Offline
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Greece
I'd say since they are the only standing modern combat sim developers out there they are the least incompetent of the bunch. Or their practices are the only way to make money in this market.

Last edited by Remon; 06/23/16 12:49 PM.
#4272553 - 06/23/16 01:15 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Zoomie13]  
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Tom_Weiss Offline
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Originally Posted By: Zoomie13
Originally Posted By: Tom_Weiss
I am sure you could start a medium sized forum with all the people they have banned over the years, including among them some of the best skin and mod makers hahaha

If you do say so yourself..? biggrin


I do.

Originally Posted By: Zoomie13

How much revenue do you think they might lose if they allowed potential new customers to come upon a forum where a small number of people constantly post that the product is no good and the developer is "incompetent"?


you support then censorship

Originally Posted By: Zoomie13


Whether there is truth or not, the extremely vocal minority seem to try to skew the narrative in favour of their "opinion" instead of actually trying to participate in constructive discussion. A potential new customer would probably just quit and not bother instead of wading through all that chaff...


extremely vocal minority = regular SimHQ members.

Personally - I have no opinion on any modules made my DCS since FC3, as I don't own any 3rd party modules.

I have Belsimtek modules but don't fly any of them for lack of time.

Therefore, I cannot offer any criticism constructive or otherwise.

If you want to have some in-depth opinions on P3D, then I might be the right person to ask, otherwise, all I do is comment on what is going on.


#4272677 - 06/23/16 07:16 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Remon]  
Joined: Jun 2005
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- Ice Offline
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- Ice  Offline
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Philippines / North East UK
Originally Posted By: Zoomie13
How much revenue do you think they might lose if they allowed potential new customers to come upon a forum where a small number of people constantly post that the product is no good and the developer is "incompetent"?

Whether there is truth or not, the extremely vocal minority seem to try to skew the narrative in favour of their "opinion" instead of actually trying to participate in constructive discussion. A potential new customer would probably just quit and not bother instead of wading through all that chaff...


Hahahaha!! Are you serious? So, "let's ban the vocal minority pointing out defects in our products so that we can trick new customers into buying broken crap"?? Instead of having a go at the people who are displeased with a product, why not have a go at the people who are capable of fixing said product but either cannot or worse, DO NOT do so.

Originally Posted By: Remon
I'd say since they are the only standing modern combat sim developers out there they are the least incompetent of the bunch. Or their practices are the only way to make money in this market.


I'd say they're the only PAID modern combat sim devs. biggrin The other set of modern combat sim devs are doing fine, and are making ZERO money despite making the paid devs look like n00bs.


- Ice
#4272941 - 06/24/16 09:50 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: - Ice]  
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codefox Offline
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Fox's Den
Originally Posted By: - Ice
[quote=Zoomie13]The other set of modern combat sim devs are doing fine, and are making ZERO money despite making the paid devs look like n00bs


How does ED look like noobs compared to other combat sim devs? Which ones are you talking about? smile

You can't compare DCS with sims like Falcon BMS or the FSX Tacpack. Both of them work on existing platforms and "only" extend them. Eagle Dynamics, on the other hand, wrote the simulator including the engine on their own and have extensive sim development knowlegdge since over a decade.

They're doing an impressive job on DCS but all the community gets to do is complaining - man, just take a look at the other flight sims.. DCS is far ahead for most parts! Yes, DCS may be a little instable here and there and it also got plenty of bugs to sort out but tell me about one bug-free flight sim and I'll sell my soul! smile

Last edited by codefox; 06/24/16 09:51 AM.
#4272943 - 06/24/16 10:20 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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theOden Offline
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Did you actually interpret this thread as people asking for a bug free sim?

#4272944 - 06/24/16 10:24 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: theOden]  
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codefox Offline
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Fox's Den
No, I did not. I was just asking why ED are "noobs" compared to other combat flight sim devs?

Last edited by codefox; 06/24/16 10:25 AM.
#4273174 - 06/24/16 11:38 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: codefox]  
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- Ice Offline
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- Ice  Offline
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Originally Posted By: codefox
You can't compare DCS with sims like Falcon BMS or the FSX Tacpack. Both of them work on existing platforms and "only" extend them. Eagle Dynamics, on the other hand, wrote the simulator including the engine on their own and have extensive sim development knowlegdge since over a decade.


Exactly my point. Other people are "extending" or reverse-engineering a platform and improving it and are doing a better job at it than someone who has made their "engine" from the ground up. "Extensive sim development knowledge"? I wonder how you quantify that.

Originally Posted By: codefox
They're doing an impressive job on DCS but all the community gets to do is complaining - man, just take a look at the other flight sims.. DCS is far ahead for most parts! Yes, DCS may be a little instable here and there and it also got plenty of bugs to sort out but tell me about one bug-free flight sim and I'll sell my soul! smile


Far ahead where exactly? "A little instable" is an understatement!


- Ice
#4273506 - 06/26/16 09:23 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: leaf_on_the_wind]  
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LOF_Rugg Offline
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Originally Posted By: leaf_on_the_wind
You are banned so you cannot access anything to pm a moderator , hence the retarded statement

I've been down that road. The responses were just more of the same heavy handed disrespectful comments. Or as in my case, a producer calling me a liar then making sure I couldn't respond. Not to mention said producer getting involved in other flight sim community goings on up to and including trying to get me removed as a moderator on another forum. It's the same crap as it ever was and it goes all the way to the top. Children making flight sims that can't handle criticism or any kind of real life dissent so they do what they do best. Ban people. Head over to LOF and look at all the modding I did. You'll notice a complete halt in doing anything else because it's hard to spend alot of time, for free modding a sim that the producer got involved in my personal life and was successful in damaging certain aspects of same. I was going to file a lawsuit because it got so invasive. All over software. Seriously. Some of the mods and the producer have some serious mental health issues.

#4273512 - 06/26/16 10:47 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: SkateZilla]  
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leaf_on_the_wind Offline
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Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
You can still login.


Hmm 5 days and no reply , could it have realised its mistake ?



Ferengi Rule of acquisition #1 Once you have their money ... never give it back.

#4273520 - 06/26/16 12:11 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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Tom_Weiss Offline
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Tom_Weiss  Offline
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I believe the greatest mistake many of us did - me included, was to become too attached to this flight sim.

Perhaps because we invested so much effort and time on it, we started to feel too attached and emotional.

Clearly that was a mistake - and we were taught a harsh lesson for it.

The good news is that, thanks to that lesson, we (or at least me) discovered that there is a whole world of flight sims out there, waiting to be discovered and in consequence, we put this flight sim (DCS etc. ) in its proper place.

It is just another flight sim.

#4273609 - 06/26/16 08:27 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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zaelu Offline
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+1

#4273626 - 06/26/16 10:07 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Tom_Weiss]  
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- Ice Offline
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- Ice  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tom_Weiss
I believe the greatest mistake many of us did - me included, was to become too attached to this flight sim.

Perhaps because we invested so much effort and time on it, we started to feel too attached and emotional.

Clearly that was a mistake - and we were taught a harsh lesson for it.

The good news is that, thanks to that lesson, we (or at least me) discovered that there is a whole world of flight sims out there, waiting to be discovered and in consequence, we put this flight sim (DCS etc. ) in its proper place.

It is just another flight sim.


I would not call it a mistake. My hours spent on DCS A10C were very well spent and I do not regret any of it. I have taught a few people, some of them complete n00bs that didn't even know what an "OSB 1" was. I vaguely remember telling another about what the "FPM" was and what it signified. Learning how to ripple-fire all my Mavs in one pass was fun and my buddies and I flew "In The Weeds" so often we got better and better as pilots and as a team. I loved DCS back then, and I showed it by buying DCS BS2 despite having little intention of flying the Shark.

The mistakes IMHO were how the company carried on afterwards.

It's just a flight sim? Yes, and no. Notice how geeks and nerds rage and froth at the mouth when a movie tramples over their beloved book/series/genre? Similar. Yes, it's just a hobby. No, it's not "just" a hobby. Choosing to spend our free time this way means we are investing ourselves in it and becoming attached only comes with the territory.


- Ice
#4273631 - 06/26/16 10:47 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Tom_Weiss]  
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Zoomie13 Offline
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Zoomie13  Offline
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Posts: 47
Originally Posted By: Tom_Weiss
I believe the greatest mistake many of us did - me included, was to become too attached to this flight sim.

Perhaps because we invested so much effort and time on it, we started to feel too attached and emotional.

Clearly that was a mistake - and we were taught a harsh lesson for it.

The good news is that, thanks to that lesson, we (or at least me) discovered that there is a whole world of flight sims out there, waiting to be discovered and in consequence, we put this flight sim (DCS etc. ) in its proper place.

It is just another flight sim.

Excellent post with good perspective!

Unless you are one of its shareholders, no corporation owes you anything more than what you've contracted with them -- that's the law. While they may decide to "go above and beyond" your contract expectations, they predominantly do that to ensure continued sales. To say "I'm going to work voluntarily for them so that they do what I want" is a delusion. If they fail to meet our expectations we can decide to move on and take it as a lesson learned.

Complaining to the "choir" may feed our ego, but results in little else..

#4273633 - 06/26/16 10:49 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: - Ice]  
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Zoomie13 Offline
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Zoomie13  Offline
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Originally Posted By: - Ice
Choosing to spend our free time this way means we are investing ourselves in it and becoming attached only comes with the territory.

That's not an excuse for lack of personal discipline.

#4273662 - 06/27/16 12:41 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Zoomie13]  
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Remon Offline
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Greece
Originally Posted By: Zoomie13
Originally Posted By: - Ice
Choosing to spend our free time this way means we are investing ourselves in it and becoming attached only comes with the territory.

That's not an excuse for lack of personal discipline.


How dare someone enjoy the game!

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