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#4272411 - 06/22/16 11:35 PM Re: For those who forgot. [Re: CyBerkut]  
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What I'm about to say may apply to Mechanus, maybe not...

I've been wondering why I post allot of the stuff I do here (especially over the last 3 or 4 years), mainly why started getting personal since 2009/10. I signed on late 2003 and have thousands of posts about flight sims (believe it or not), revealing very little if anything about my personal life. This really changed around 2012/13, IIRC.

I did the online self-diagnostic research and what I came up with was low self-esteem/seeks validation. Hard to accept because I've made much progress in many aspects of my life the past few years, but I must feel like it's not enough. Even with successful weight loss (although I still have a ways to go) I still feel like the fat guy who dressed and played the typical fat guy role at family reunions (fat guys might know what I'm talking about).

It could also be a touch of mid-life crisis (how old are you Mechanus?), the weaker male mind/ego who feels they haven't lived up to their full potential, maybe have some regrets and wishing they could relive parts of their life for the better.

I dunno, I'm not a psychiatrist. smile

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#4272422 - 06/22/16 11:51 PM Re: For those who forgot. [Re: CyBerkut]  
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I'm in my forties, I'm told I look I look like I'm in my late 20s, but I insist it's not my looks, it's my attitude now. I have far more success with women now than I did when I was younger, and the irony is people think I am a misogynist or dysfunctional- well if I am, that says something about women, because I am more successful with them now by a factor of a 100 then I was when I was probably more like what some people here would think I should be like.

I personally am not one who expresses himself with small talk. That's one of my failings for some people is that I don't grasp it. The deeper the topic it is, the more uncomfortable it may be if it arrives at something important to talk about is what I prefer. Maybe I have trouble understanding that not everyone wants that.

#4272429 - 06/23/16 12:19 AM Re: For those who forgot. [Re: Mechanus]  
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Originally Posted By: Mechanus
I'm in it for the topic itself and to help people who want to understand things if it seemed like a mystery to them before. That is my motivation as I've said.


Laudable motivation, but I can't really recall anyone here ever asking you specifically about relationship advice. "To help people" would mean explaining things to those who are confused and asking for clarifications. Do we appear confused to you?

So yeah, maybe give it a rest unless someone really asks for specific advice. Even then there are whole boards on this magical internet thing devoted to the topic (and populated by people who think a lot more like you). I've been there, I've learned some things, had to hard unlearn some others. Your view on women and the world they live in is pretty toxic either way you turn it - you might not realize it but that kind of "advice" can be harmful.

#4272432 - 06/23/16 12:32 AM Re: For those who forgot. [Re: CyBerkut]  
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I am stopping, it's just becoming a drag.

But you do find it more intriguing than you admit- despite what you think of my character and despite what you think I say is toxic (which I disagree), you can't stop reading it. You say I'm say I'm so awful yet you can't turn away, which means you're reading it in order to comment on it - why? You do find enough merit to do that. Some of what I'm saying probably does make a little sense in order for that to happen, otherwise you just ignore it. I ignore threads and posts that I don't find interesting, so at least consider that as bad as I seem to you (which is strange to me- why is the truth bad?), you got something out of it, because I do too, believe it or not.



#4272439 - 06/23/16 12:54 AM Re: For those who forgot. [Re: Mechanus]  
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Originally Posted By: Mechanus
Originally Posted By: CyBerkut
Originally Posted By: Mechanus
Finally, women's entire validation comes from one thing: their ability to attract men.


Yeah, there's no cynicism there... rolleyes

I see you're still fond of making such overly broad statements. That is where, at least in part, your credibility is diminished in the eyes of some people here.


No, it's that men think of women still in different terms and have a hard time giving this up. It's like saying it's overly broad that men aret attracted to women's beauty, therefore, discard the notion that men are attracted to female beauty. Too broad a statement.


No, it's not "like saying it's overly broad that men aret attracted to women's beauty, therefore, discard the notion that men are attracted to female beauty."

Saying:

Originally Posted By: Mechanus
Finally, women's entire validation comes from one thing: their ability to attract men.


isn't like that. It's not merely too broad a statement, either. It's an obviously false statement for many women and ignores the much more complex totality of their being. If you think that women like Margaret Thatcher, Mother Teresa, Sally Ride, Sandra Day O'Connor, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Hillary Clinton, Joan of Arc, or Ronda Rousey have their entire validation come from their ability to attract men... then I'd say that is solid evidence of being seriously disconnected from reality.

One doesn't have to limit themselves to only famous women of accomplishment to see them finding validation in other things either... it's just easier to illustrate that way. Women in the workplace can find validation in recognition of work well done. Mothers can find validation in raising children to be law abiding, contributing members of society. That's not to say all of them do, but there are plenty of them that do. It's all around us and readily seen, if one merely looks beyond the gonads and hormones.

I'll repeat: You can know your own experiences, and you can choose to believe whichever of the things you have been told or read. But you can't know everyone else's experiences.

#4272449 - 06/23/16 01:28 AM Re: For those who forgot. [Re: CyBerkut]  
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But you're not understand the point I'm making. Obviously a lesbian doesn't feel that way. A mother with her child doesn't feel that way.

I'm talking about the context of romantic relationships, that's the point you missed. When it comes to that, the female's currency for attraction is based on her physical appearance to attract a mate.

You see guys attracted to women because of their jobs? No. Attracted to their wealth? No. Status? No. Ability to protect the man? No.

You'd have to understand it from a socio-biological standpoint, women evolved the way they have in terms of the men they attract, which is through their physical looks first and foremost. Even in society, women 'outrank' other women based on their looks. Women spend so much time on their physical appearance, because it is so important.

Women would not know they are attractive if people did not pay them any mind and constantly remind them of it. Some men are handsome but often don't know it, because they don't get the same validation as women do. Women are used to this validation much more, when you take that out, something is amiss, and it is the source of a self esteem problem- it's that important. When men don't find them attractive, the girl is on a different path in their lives. Life is much harder for them. Girls and young women know this, they are very competitive with another when they are young and they are already establishing their hierarchies and realizing what their lives are going to be like and what kind of careers and husbands they are going to have based on that.

Less attractive women don't have the same options as attractive women, they don't get the same opportunities, they have to rely more on other things, their intelligence, resourcefulness- more like a man. Even in her non romantic relationships, she can always have her entourage of men willing to help her out, guys she can flirt with to get them to fix her problems, it helps them in job interviews and negotiating with men and so on.

So attractive women, when you take their number one currency out of it, it throws them off. Even in our not so distant past, this could be a matter of survival or whether she has children or not- if a man doesn't find her attractive, she's on her own, or else she may attract men who are not so much prime candidates, but it's the best she can do.

#4272459 - 06/23/16 02:05 AM Re: For those who forgot. [Re: LukeFF]  
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Originally Posted By: LukeFF
Amen

Oh, and on that note: I got engaged last week, and the two of us couldn't be happier. We've both waited a long time for the right person to come along, but we are glad we did not give up and lose hope along the way.


Congratulations, Luke! All the best to you and the (near) future Mrs FF.


There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more inexplicable.
There is another theory which states that this has already happened.
#4272473 - 06/23/16 02:56 AM Re: For those who forgot. [Re: Mechanus]  
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Originally Posted By: Mechanus
But you're not understand the point I'm making. Obviously a lesbian doesn't feel that way. A mother with her child doesn't feel that way.

I'm talking about the context of romantic relationships, that's the point you missed.


I didn't miss the point. I just find the narrow focus upon only certain aspects of romantic relationships to be shallow.

But OK, let's re-examine the statement in just the context of romantic relationships. It is still wrong.

Originally Posted By: Mechanus
Finally, women's entire validation comes from one thing: their ability to attract men.


Sadly, I'm sure some women have fallen into that way of thinking. However, there are women who also find validation in choosing their partner wisely. There are women who also find validation in holding true to their moral convictions while finding a partner. In other words, they can find validation in the choices that they make, not merely in who they can attract to choose them.

#4272477 - 06/23/16 03:09 AM Re: For those who forgot. [Re: CyBerkut]  
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It's 'logical' the way it works- with male selection routines prioritizing their looks so much, it's the outcome of that.

It's true for us all- attractive people in society are given more options in life, they are perceived as healthier, more intelligent, more fun to be around, more trustworthy.

With women, it just happens to be so much more important. And this is why I explain the strange phenomenon when you see what looks like a mismatch when you see an apparently attractive woman with a guy she looks like she could do better- and people scratch their heads how this happens. If it's not his wealth or something like this, it's the guy's personality that trumps, the guy is acting in ways that doesn't remind the girl of her potential social status because of her looks, she thinks he's the catch, not the other way around.

The times when I used to hesitate more because I used to think, "You know the girl is pretty, but I want to see what her personality is like for relationship material," - bombed every single time. When I did that instead of acting on just the primary attraction level, I lost every time to some jerk who made the move that I didn't make.

That's the dynamic I explain, when I was the 'nice guy,' I lost every time to the guys who just simply didn't care about things like her personality and that sort of thing, and these women apparently would trade me for them every single time. These women would go with these jerks, and then cry to me about them, and then go right back to them and it repeats itself.

So I realized I can't change women, if that's the way they are, if that's what they prefer, it's not for me to tell them otherwise. No, I'm not a jerk to them, but I don't hesitate if the right signals are there, I don't try to make a girlfriend out of them first and try an establish a deep relationship, because again, every time I did that I lost to some other guy who was quicker on the draw.

Fortune favors the bold, they generally are more attracted to guys who display some characteristic that takes them out of their usual routine. Girls are sometimes over protected and supposed to be lady like all the time, but they aren't, and they don't want to be all the time- they can be very not like that, and chaos and turmoil can be quite attractive to them. We are not used to this idea if we're raised to be gentlemen, again, we often apply to them what we think they ought to be than the way they are. They like the idea of a storybook romance like in the movies, which are anything but pleasant and that sort of thing, it actually is attractive for a guy to swing in on a chandelier and take them away, and that's how they perceive these wrong guys versus the nice, pleasant guy who don't ignite any passion. At least the wrong guys provide that turmoil and uncertainty. This may sound weird, but it is a real part of female psychology.

It's not our job to save them, they resist it even more and it doesn't work. I've tried it, they disliked me even more when I did.

#4272487 - 06/23/16 05:23 AM Re: For those who forgot. [Re: Mechanus]  
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Originally Posted By: Mechanus
I'm in my forties, I'm told I look I look like I'm in my late 20s, but I insist it's not my looks, it's my attitude now.


Ah, so it IS a mid-life thing! smile

Driving you crazy too, huh? Like the final encore of youth, you picking up hawt young chicks (I assume you're getting laid constantly), me reliving the 12th grade but with coinage in my pocket and access to the goodies.

You know we're going to look back at all this one day and say, "WTF were we thinking?!" biggrin Hopefully before we reach an age where it seems creepy (you) and silly (me), or maybe we're already there but we don't see it. wink



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Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
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Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4272489 - 06/23/16 05:47 AM Re: For those who forgot. [Re: CyBerkut]  
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It is in this sense: at some point I said to myself that I'm not getting younger. I'm going to step out of my comfort zone and try something different I wasn't doing before. Why not? What is there to lose? That was the impetus for change.

I've mentioned before I am a late bloomer, I went through my twenties with virtually no attention from women but two, I was just mystified why this was so. It wasn't adding up. It was by series of chance things that I did that started to add up differently slowly but surely.

I'm going to say this now, and it's going to sound weird. I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't seen this myself.

One time I was at party with some friends, after some drinks, some of the female guests were making fun of me and teasing me. You can't let them get away with that.

I went up to one of the girls taunting me, and I nudged her a little bit so she fell backwards against the wall, and I went up to her and looked into her eyes and quoted this Christopher Walken character in the movie Nick of Time where he warns Johnny Depp about what's going to happen.

This created tension in her that she almost had a big "O" right there and then. And the women before us all just looked totally mesmerized. She asked me how I knew to do that. Where did I learn that? "Learn what?" I asked "Dominate me like that." I didn't know, I had never heard of it anywhere, I was drunk, and it seemed like fun at the time. They were making fun of me, and I felt like turning the tables. This does something very primitive to them. It's losing control to you that drives them nuts- it's the most macho thing in the world to take control, and despite feminist women and things like this say, they have this primitive thing that even they don't have a choice in. They want to lose control, not too much control to where it's dangerous; the individual woman's experience and comfort levels enter into it, but all of them to a degree have this potential to act like this. I touched on it before with the romance novels and women succumbing to the dashing male. A bit unpredictable, a bit dangerous to know- the archetypal swashbuckling or Byronic Hero type romantic character.

I mentioned this to another guy once, and he said, "You're just figuring this out? They're all like this." Often times the women themselves don't even know, they don't explore just how bizarre and extreme their sexuality goes, especially if the men don't know it to try on them. Ever since then, I have experimented with other kinds of sexist behavior with women, and if you know how to do it, it does turn them on. If you're more reserved, you won't believe this, there is nothing in your upbringing that would ever clue you in to it.

#4272499 - 06/23/16 08:17 AM Re: For those who forgot. [Re: Mechanus]  
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Originally Posted By: Mechanus
I am stopping, it's just becoming a drag.

But you do find it more intriguing than you admit- despite what you think of my character and despite what you think I say is toxic (which I disagree), you can't stop reading it. You say I'm say I'm so awful yet you can't turn away, which means you're reading it in order to comment on it - why?



Train Wreck phenomeon. You don't want to look but can't help yourself.

Seriously though, call it a study of people that I'm interested in. You're an interesting study object.

#4272538 - 06/23/16 12:00 PM Re: For those who forgot. [Re: Mechanus]  
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Originally Posted By: Mechanus
Finally, women's entire validation comes from one thing: their ability to attract men.


There's your problem right there.


"A little luck & a little government is necessary to get by, but only a fool places his complete trust in either one." - PJ O'Rourke

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#4272566 - 06/23/16 02:10 PM Re: For those who forgot. [Re: CyBerkut]  
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Well, the chances of us being here is a bit diminished if that weren't the case. If men didn't find women attractive, then I think you can see logically what happens (or what doesn't happen rather). Not hard to understand. Not hard to understand that is the core of female validation to attract a mate in her wiring, men have their version of it as well. It's important that females get their validation externally, and act accordingly to be attractive. That's not a problem to see. If it wasn't that way, they would get their validation more like men are expected to, by their work, careers and so forth- but I repeat, men aren't really attracted to women's careers. Society doesn't place as much a premium on women for their careers. Women themselves always try to get that external validation, always put on makeup and put on a good presentation for external validation no matter what their careers. Even older women if they were doctors or professionals of some kind still try and look good when they go out the door. It's right in front of you happening everywhere. It's quite important. Women like attention. They like to know they can turn heads.

I understand why men don't get it, because I didn't either. Men aren't told anything, sure you show up on a date, and that's about it- you pay for things, now the women give you her affections, because you're there like she is, and you paid for dinner. That should get you everything you need, the hot girls will be lining up to get at you. Now they're going to be chasing you and calling you for dates.

Wrong. Do you wonder why that isn't how it works?

Women aren't turned on the same way men are. Men think "I'm a guy, I'll show up, and pay for things, that should do it." That's not how it works, they're not turned on like men are, men are the visual ones who get their stimulation just by looking at a women, not the women. Furthermore, just the act of paying for stuff isn't how it works, either. That's just a bribe at its most basic. "In exchange for paying, you give me affection." That's exactly what that is.

Look at it this way: Han Solo doesn't pay for things, it's not that he's paying for things. James Bond isn't paying for things when he walks in the room and all eyes move to him at that moment. The charismatic characters in the movies aren't just paying for things and the women characters or the women in the audience just fall for them because he's buying. "Oh he pays for dinner and he's nice and he helps out around the house, he's dreamy."

It's the vibe the man has, it's something about him that the women thinks to themselves, "There's something about him, he's not behaving like anyone I've seen before." It's his vibe.

All the nice guys look and act more or less the same, it's all the same deal. They're nice, they're pleasant, that's it. Sure, they dress nice and can be handsome, that's still not it, again, that's more like how men are attracted to women. Those things don't hurt, but that's not the core of a woman's attraction.

I'm going to say forget about everything you know or think you know about what an alpha male is. Maybe the thought comes to mind the captain of a football team, sure those can be alpha, but that's not per se what it means. It's a mindset, not a career or position. There are alphas in prison, there are alphas in the boardroom, there are alphas who collect garbage.

An alpha is a guy who doesn't look like everyone else, he behaves with his own personality that is just captivating in the room. He stands out even if he's not trying to.

Here is Jarvis Cocker from the band Pulp, after he was arrested for storming the stage Michael Jackson was performing on at the Brit Awards years ago. Michael Jackson's act was kind absurd at the time, and Jarvis Cocker jumped on stage and made a spectacle to protest it. Here is the interview afterward:


This guy is alpha as hell. Skinny guy with glasses, He completely is Alpha, uninhibited by pretense, afterthought, or conscious awareness of any influence that could have a hope of prompting introspection about his state. It's his presence, aloof and apart from the rest.





He's not some big thug or super hero looking guy, his presence is just captivating to people. He just gets naturally what a lot of guys spend a lot of time learning 'game' or learning pickup moves have to practice and don't get naturally. He is effortlessly cool and just 'the guy' in the room.


#4272584 - 06/23/16 03:13 PM Re: For those who forgot. [Re: CyBerkut]  
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Soo...

Women want to look pretty.

Men chase after what they find attractive.

Is there a revelation here?

Guess what, some men want to look nice too. Have you not been following "The SimHQ Diet and Training Thread?"

Here's another thought...

We don't all find the same things about women attractive, either physically and even with personality. There may be similarities within a range of attributes, but some of us might prefer an extreme either way, and I think there's a pretty wide range of what any group of men find attractive. I've seen this at strip clubs (early 90's) and porn (more recently than I'd like to acknowledge, all in the past now). "There's a lid for every pot," know what I mean? Of course you're going to chase what your heart and hormones desire, especially when you're young.

Your comments just seem way too generalized (as pointed out to you already). Also, how many SimHQ'ers really need "Sex and Relationships 101"? We're not in high school here (even if some one of us still pretends to be).



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Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4272589 - 06/23/16 03:27 PM Re: For those who forgot. [Re: CyBerkut]  
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Of course men want to look nice too, but I'm saying that's not the primary objective for women- women themselves say that. Over and over again when asked what they find attractive, looks don't rank first the way men prioritize it. They're being honest when they say that. If they liked looks the same exact way men do, they probably would be attracted to women, too. In fact, many of them do say they find women more attractive look at, but yet they still aren't romantically attracted to them.

Women aren't the primary consumers of magazines showing nude bodies, they aren't the ones driving the strip club industry. It's right in front of us. The generalization is true.

It's your vibe, it's what's known as your 'frame;' looks don't matter when the vibe doesn't square up. So, for example, you could like Christopher Reeves as Superman, but if your vibe was like Pee Wee Herman, the looks are really kind of undone by that. Sure.

The generalization thing is true: generalizations exist and they are true. You live by generalizations everyday, both consciously and subconsciously. If you have an analytical mind, that might throw it off and make it seem like generalizations don't exist, because you see exceptions to generalizations and things like this and dismiss generalizations because you see all the possible variables or deviations from the generalization. On dates, it's often better in many respects to not overthink like that.

Exceptions to the rule do not disprove the rule, the rules are still there. So as a rule, people who who live in the ghettos are not rich. Maybe you'll find a few exceptions, but that is the rule. Women do not prioritize looks the way men do in the same way, that is the rule, that is what you'll find is true.

There's lots of guys I think are good looking who I see who are alone and don't attract women, and I used to wonder why that is, now I get it. It doesn't work the same way. A man's looks don't hurt, but women have evolved differently in the way they select mates. A guy who is exciting, mysterious, a bit unpredictable, has a personality that makes her think "something about this guy," trumps a guy who looks perfect, just looks like a TV personality but a wooden, cardboard personality.


#4272592 - 06/23/16 03:38 PM Re: For those who forgot. [Re: Mechanus]  
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Originally Posted By: Mechanus


One time I was at party with some friends, after some drinks, some of the female guests were making fun of me and teasing me. You can't let them get away with that.

I went up to one of the girls taunting me, and I nudged her a little bit so she fell backwards against the wall, and I went up to her and looked into her eyes and quoted this Christopher Walken character in the movie Nick of Time where he warns Johnny Depp about what's going to happen.
.


And this is what concerns me about the "advice" you are giving. Like when you advocated that no doesn't always mean no.

That was assault and communicating a threat.

You were lucky she didn't file charges. You were lucky there was no real man there to come to her defense. Those are not the actions of a strong secure man. That was childish punk behavior.



Why would anyone think that you have things figured out and take advice from you ? That would be like taking financial advice from someone who can't turn a profit. By your own admission you do not have strong family connections. You do not have a meaningful romantic relationship. You admit to having no interest in marriage or a committed relationship. Therefore you have no children. You have told us that you don't have real close friends or do well in social situations. You are not successful in your occupation and are only doing shaky contract work and do not think you are going to be renewed. You don't even seem to like what you are doing. You are not involved in some kind of charity or community programs to help others. You do not have a religious commitment. You have not dedicated yourself to some cause such as the service of your country or first responder. I would ask you if you think you are well thought of ? Your posts here make you seem tragic and obsessed. You can't even figure out that this thread was created not as a pat on the back to you. You even hijacked another thread that a moderator moved from its location to here because of your post. So, in summation you are not living the kind of life that would seem fulfilling to most of us.


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#4272595 - 06/23/16 03:48 PM Re: For those who forgot. [Re: CyBerkut]  
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It's not communicating a threat, I understand why it sounds like that, it's not.

So, it wasn't going up to a stranger on the street and doing that, the context was completely different, these were people I knew, everyone was in a good mood, and she did not take it as a threat. So if I didn't make that clear, that's my fault, but I will state it, if it was taken as a threat, it would have turned out differently. It wasn't creepy or anything like that.

There are things you have wrong about me, but it wouldn't matter, you don't like me anyway. Granted, I am not the kind of guy that you probably would find interesting.

The difficulty I'm having is explaining what I found out about women that were also surprising to me, and it's difficult to explain it because it is so counter intuitive based on how we're raised. They go outside of most of our experiences and it's 'shocking' if one doesn't really know about it.

This comes from being raised by women- your mothers, teachers who impact your lives, women are the sugar and spice and everything nice gender, and that's what's programmed into us from an early age, so we don't think of women and what really goes on in them contrary to them. There's a whole different side to them entirely.

#4272614 - 06/23/16 04:31 PM Re: For those who forgot. [Re: CyBerkut]  
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Mechanus Offline
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Mechanus  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,989
When I say these things to women, they're never offended- they are actually intrigued. Men can be intrigued but often shocked at the same time, because raised they way they are to want to protect women and be nice to them, it's contrary to anything that a lot of them heard. The soft, vulnerable species which isn't like this.

But if women are the ones capable of being the ones in the sex industry, if they are the ones capable of being the strippers, there really is something about them that's different. They like to feel sexy and wanted in primal way, it's often contrary to the expectations that society places on them to be ladies and be proper and things like this. They're quite schizophrenic because of those two competing issues going on with them. Sure.

It's like Shania Twain: you got the money and the looks, you got the brains, but you need the touch. I need to feel sexy with you.


#4272618 - 06/23/16 04:44 PM Re: For those who forgot. [Re: CyBerkut]  
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,847
MarkG Offline
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MarkG  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,847
The Bayou
Just know the difference between assertion (if it's requested of you in an established relationship) and aggression (which no sane person wants to experience).

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