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#4257703 - 05/08/16 03:49 AM Re: A challenge? [Re: kksnowbear]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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Well, bad luck...I reinstalled drivers, just so I could include GeForce Experience (and thus, use ShadowPlay)...and of course the 'clean install' was kind enough to go ahead and move every-d@mn icon on my desktop all over the place while it refreshed during install...GRRRR...

Anyhow, none of this helped, because although I feel as if I'm doing it properly, it doesn't look as if ShadowPlay is actually recording any video (??) I tried a few things, surely I'm doing something wrong...but nothing so far frown

Too bad because the stutters during my recording attempts were *way* obvious. I thought I had caught some doozies there.

Maybe we could use FRAPS? I have (had) a license for it and don't recall it being a PITA like this is...

Thanks for your comments so far, I've looked them over and appreciate your time with this.

One other thing I did notice, though it might not matter at all: Your video shows a "Quick Scenario", where I am running Quick Combat.

Thanks again. It might be tomorrow before I can try again, but I'm very glad to get this chance to do some testing like this. Who knows? May help find the answer after all. And I'd be *thrilled*, for certain. I think WOFF is everything that it's said to be, just the stutters make it totally distracting to me.

Last edited by kksnowbear; 05/08/16 03:52 AM.
#4257708 - 05/08/16 04:01 AM Re: A challenge? [Re: kksnowbear]  
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Respectfully, FRAPS records to the hard disk while you are playing which often causes a drop in frame rates. This would probably accentuate the stutter issue that you are already having. That said, even an imperfect look at what you are experiencing is more helpful than word descriptions alone.


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#4257710 - 05/08/16 04:02 AM Re: A challenge? [Re: kksnowbear]  
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Yes, I did save the Quick Combat as a Quick Scenario.
Thought I needed to to be able to redo it multiple times.

I see that is not the case and have flown it as a QC while testing the DH2 turning to the left.
Will be happy to rerecord as a QC.
Or you could try it as as QS.

Do you have FRAPS installed now?
I would have to use the Free version of FRAPS - which unfortunately only records for 30 seconds from what I read.

ShadowPlay has a drop in FPS also.
I've not payed close attention how much - 20 -30 maybe.

Last edited by Stache; 05/08/16 04:04 AM.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. A. Einstein

(System Specs:)

I7-6700k OC 4.4GHZ, 16GB DDR4 3200Mhz; Gigabyte Gaming 7 MB, G1 OC'ed GTX980ti; Three-Acer XB271HU WQHD Gsync 144Mhz; Samsung 950-512GB NVMe SSD; WD 2TB-7200rpm; Cooler Master HAF XB EVO, Nepton 240M cooler, V1000 PS; Windows 10 PRO; VKB GunfighterPro Stick; Thrustmaster TPR Pedals; Saitek Throttle; Dual TM MFD panels; TrackIR 5
#4257712 - 05/08/16 04:06 AM Re: A challenge? [Re: kksnowbear]  
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For what it's worth, here is my attempt at duplicating your quick combat scenario. It is recorded with ShadowPlay on 'medium' quality setting. The scenario ran quite smooth for me, which I expected with only two planes in the sky (I have had good luck running WOFF on my machine, usually pretty silky, for whatever reason).

https://youtu.be/mau5OwzetIE

#4257717 - 05/08/16 04:12 AM Re: A challenge? [Re: kksnowbear]  
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Stache Offline
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kknowsbear

your system specs are pretty similar to mine, cept a 780 instead of a 980

I actually do have a GSYNC monitor (Acer XB270H), as well as a Core i7 6700k, 16G of RAM, a "factory super-clocked" 780i w/ 3G...and I boot to a freaking-stupid-fast Intel 750 NVMe SSD, and run WOFF from a equally freaking-stupid-fast Samsung 950 NVMe SSD.

One item I noticed, both you an Bronxx are not running WOFF from your OS drive, which I am.
Just an observation, not any sort of a conclusion.
My secondary drive is only for Storage.


77scout - what are your system specs and what drive do you run WOFF from?

Last edited by Stache; 05/08/16 04:17 AM. Reason: Question for 77scount

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. A. Einstein

(System Specs:)

I7-6700k OC 4.4GHZ, 16GB DDR4 3200Mhz; Gigabyte Gaming 7 MB, G1 OC'ed GTX980ti; Three-Acer XB271HU WQHD Gsync 144Mhz; Samsung 950-512GB NVMe SSD; WD 2TB-7200rpm; Cooler Master HAF XB EVO, Nepton 240M cooler, V1000 PS; Windows 10 PRO; VKB GunfighterPro Stick; Thrustmaster TPR Pedals; Saitek Throttle; Dual TM MFD panels; TrackIR 5
#4257735 - 05/08/16 05:23 AM Re: A challenge? [Re: kksnowbear]  
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Here's a thought (and I apologize if its already been brought up). Sound. We're seeing lots of folks with good rigs claiming smooth gameplay, and others with similar rigs not. Could it be a difference in the way our integrated (or maybe not integrated) sound processing is handled. I rarely see sound discussed anymore, and I could swear on my old rig sound had something to do with stutters in WOFF. My new motherboard came with an integrated Soundblaster chip\software\whatever tuner

In the end, sound processing also has to be coordinated by the CPU in concert with video output. Could the differences in our motherboard sound components also be part of the stuttering puzzle? One CPU is fat and happy with its integrated sound components, the other maybe not so much?

Just an idea...


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#4257788 - 05/08/16 11:11 AM Re: A challenge? [Re: kksnowbear]  
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" nice " white triangles, Stache
Ask DukeIronHand / HellShade, they will help you with some advices.


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#4257790 - 05/08/16 11:15 AM Re: A challenge? [Re: Bronnx]  
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Originally Posted By: Bronnx
" nice " white triangles, Stache
Ask DukeIronHand / HellShade, they will help you with some advices.


Your sheer stupidity is making me go back on my hope to just ignore your blatant idiocy.
He, and others, just try to help your lame arse and that is all you have to say?
Ok. Your gone. Bye.

#4257796 - 05/08/16 11:31 AM Re: A challenge? [Re: Bronnx]  
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Stache Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bronnx
" nice " white triangles, Stache


Hi Bronxx, Yes I never said I did not have the triangles.
However, this thread is about stuttering?
Any comments there?


Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. A. Einstein

(System Specs:)

I7-6700k OC 4.4GHZ, 16GB DDR4 3200Mhz; Gigabyte Gaming 7 MB, G1 OC'ed GTX980ti; Three-Acer XB271HU WQHD Gsync 144Mhz; Samsung 950-512GB NVMe SSD; WD 2TB-7200rpm; Cooler Master HAF XB EVO, Nepton 240M cooler, V1000 PS; Windows 10 PRO; VKB GunfighterPro Stick; Thrustmaster TPR Pedals; Saitek Throttle; Dual TM MFD panels; TrackIR 5
#4257813 - 05/08/16 12:48 PM Re: A challenge? [Re: Stache]  
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Originally Posted By: Stache
ShadowPlay has a drop in FPS also.
I've not payed close attention how much - 20 -30 maybe.


Shadowplay does indeed have a small drop in FPS but FRAPS is more significant. I'm not saying using FRAPS is wrong, you would probably just want to take into consideration that its a significantly bigger drain on FPS than Shadowplay is.

http://www.gamersnexus.net/game-bench/1561-shadowplay-vs-fraps-vs-gvr-recording-benchmark


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields Ultimate Edition 5.x
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

System Specs
(warning)
Intel i7 6700K OC 4.6 Ghz
Corsair Hydro H60 Liquid Cooler
16 GB Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4 RAM
2 x EVO 850 1TB SSD Drives (OS & Games)
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MSI Z170 GAMER M7 Motherboard
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Acer XB280HK 27" G-SYNC Monitor
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#4257818 - 05/08/16 01:04 PM Re: A challenge? [Re: Hellshade]  
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Stache Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hellshade
Originally Posted By: Stache
ShadowPlay has a drop in FPS also.
I've not payed close attention how much - 20 -30 maybe.


Shadowplay does indeed have a small drop in FPS but FRAPS is more significant. I'm not saying using FRAPS is wrong, you would probably just want to take into consideration that its a significantly bigger drain on FPS than Shadowplay is.

http://www.gamersnexus.net/game-bench/1561-shadowplay-vs-fraps-vs-gvr-recording-benchmark



Thanks i was figuring as much.
Did a cursory look for a bench mark but did not find that.
As I noted there was a big hit with Bandicam, though I -was- using the free version of it.
Guess it is Shadowplay from now on.


Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. A. Einstein

(System Specs:)

I7-6700k OC 4.4GHZ, 16GB DDR4 3200Mhz; Gigabyte Gaming 7 MB, G1 OC'ed GTX980ti; Three-Acer XB271HU WQHD Gsync 144Mhz; Samsung 950-512GB NVMe SSD; WD 2TB-7200rpm; Cooler Master HAF XB EVO, Nepton 240M cooler, V1000 PS; Windows 10 PRO; VKB GunfighterPro Stick; Thrustmaster TPR Pedals; Saitek Throttle; Dual TM MFD panels; TrackIR 5
#4257820 - 05/08/16 01:07 PM Re: A challenge? [Re: Bucksnort]  
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Stache Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bucksnort
Here's a thought (and I apologize if its already been brought up). Sound. We're seeing lots of folks with good rigs claiming smooth gameplay, and others with similar rigs not. Could it be a difference in the way our integrated (or maybe not integrated) sound processing is handled. I rarely see sound discussed anymore, and I could swear on my old rig sound had something to do with stutters in WOFF. My new motherboard came with an integrated Soundblaster chip\software\whatever tuner

In the end, sound processing also has to be coordinated by the CPU in concert with video output. Could the differences in our motherboard sound components also be part of the stuttering puzzle? One CPU is fat and happy with its integrated sound components, the other maybe not so much?

Just an idea...


Hi Bucksnort,

Could be. Anything/Everything is still suspect. I know my MB has a built-in Creative Sound Core3D Quad-Core Audio Processor.


Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. A. Einstein

(System Specs:)

I7-6700k OC 4.4GHZ, 16GB DDR4 3200Mhz; Gigabyte Gaming 7 MB, G1 OC'ed GTX980ti; Three-Acer XB271HU WQHD Gsync 144Mhz; Samsung 950-512GB NVMe SSD; WD 2TB-7200rpm; Cooler Master HAF XB EVO, Nepton 240M cooler, V1000 PS; Windows 10 PRO; VKB GunfighterPro Stick; Thrustmaster TPR Pedals; Saitek Throttle; Dual TM MFD panels; TrackIR 5
#4257826 - 05/08/16 01:35 PM Re: A challenge? [Re: kksnowbear]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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GM guys, just getting up and about this morning. Off to church in a bit, so I'll have to post more later, but for now:

Stache - Sorry, believe it or not I guess I'm stupid and didn't realize the QS was how one saves a QC. Haven't played that much (stutters too annoying) and didn't get that far. Maybe I'll try that, though I'm given to doubt it causes problems - just something I noticed. TBH at this point, anything that's different makes me wonder, just because this seems such an elusive issue.

On the subject of sound - this has been raised many times, and although I find the claim that on-board sound causes these issues to be rather dubious IMHO (for reasons I'll not go into here) - I still took Hellshade's advice of using Q to suspend sound at one point in the past. It made zero difference.

77Scount - thank you very much for your 'entry'. Are you also using ShadowPlay? Once again, as with Stache, I'd have to admit that generally yours looks much smoother than mine, which both makes me curious and crazy, because it becomes apparent that there are some differences. That said, I do see (what *looks* like) a fairly big pause (stutter) at :30, which again is a lot like what I see only much more of them.

Particularly when I pursue the DH2 in a dive, as he evades, my. scenario. runs. like. this. Hitch, hitch, hitch, easily 4-5 times in the first dive.

I'll work on getting FRAPS installed this afternoon. I was perfectly prepared to use ShadowPlay , but it doesn't work...and that's after I took the time to re-install drivers (and my desktop gets all screwed up). Now I have to troubleshoot that, just I can troubleshoot this? I mean, think about it...

Yes, I suspect FRAPS will eat more frames, but:

- I don't think it matters what recording method is used, so long as it's the same for everyone running the test.
- As for frame rates, this issue (stutters) is *not* about low frame rates. It's about sudden drops in frame rates, which typically will rise right back up. It is as I described earlier - I'd rather have 25 FPS that's smooth and evenly distributed than 60+ that stutters or 'hitches' down to a visible pause every few seconds as you fly. You can't aim, or lead, or really even keep up with an opponent like that.

I do have to be honest - even this test is frustrating me now, because all this cr@p takes time...I get so very little free time as it is, and it's maddening to have to spend it troubleshooting a game instead of enjoying it. Surely you folks understand that, after years of trying all the stuff discussed, you just want to give up. The last thing you need is some joker telling you "It's obviously your machine, and unless you're willing to try what I say, you are wrong."

I do thank all those who are participating, though. Never mind the actual outcome, I believe this is truly helpful.

Last edited by kksnowbear; 05/08/16 01:37 PM.
#4257836 - 05/08/16 01:56 PM Re: A challenge? [Re: kksnowbear]  
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copter for some reason I post stuff and am always overlooked.Guys,may I ask you to go into WOFFtoolbox and see what resolution you are set at? No matter what I do my resolution is staying pegged at 4096x2160 and I am getting horrid performance.Just now it dropped into 15fps then 40 for awhile and then 59 and finally back to 60.Maybe this is why some others are having issues?

I always have weird issues in WOFF like I am missing the directX9 folder in toolbox as shown here in Bucksnort's post "SweetFX with WOFF 3 and/or Win 10".

So I ask again,does anyone know how to set resolution manually in a file like other games as what I set in workshop or toolbox is not working.

#4257840 - 05/08/16 02:01 PM Re: A challenge? [Re: kksnowbear]  
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Originally Posted By: kksnowbear

- I don't think it matters what recording method is used, so long as it's the same for everyone running the test.

Surely you folks understand that, after years of trying all the stuff discussed, you just want to give up. The last thing you need is some joker telling you "It's obviously your machine, and unless you're willing to try what I say, you are wrong."



While I think Shadowplay is the better recording solution, I agree that if you have to "troubleshoot this in order to troubleshoot that" it can become very frustrating indeed. And yes, as long as everyone is using the same methodology, at least then you are making apples to apples comparison as best as possible. Obviously with so many different configurations and hardware set ups, it's impossible to get exactly apples to apples comparisons.

I think everyone understands that its incredibly frustrating to have stutters and have not yet found the solution in your particular case even after you've spent significant time working on it. That's why so many people offered to help troubleshoot. It's equally frustrating to say "Hey, I've had stutters and here's what I did to get rid of them" and basically be called a liar....when all you are trying to do is help.


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields Ultimate Edition 5.x
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

System Specs
(warning)
Intel i7 6700K OC 4.6 Ghz
Corsair Hydro H60 Liquid Cooler
16 GB Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4 RAM
2 x EVO 850 1TB SSD Drives (OS & Games)
1 Intel 240GB SSD drive (Scratch drive for videos)
MSI Z170 GAMER M7 Motherboard
EVGA GTX 1080 Founders Edition
Corsair CX850M Power Supply
Acer XB280HK 27" G-SYNC Monitor
Corsair RGB STRAFE MX Silent Keyboard
Windows 10 Home 64 bit

#4257848 - 05/08/16 02:21 PM Re: A challenge? [Re: Wolfstriked]  
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Wolfstriked, that's an interesting Point. Believe it or not, but I was working today with exactly the same Problem...

This is what I've found out:

I have changed my Resolution in my NVIDIA Control-Panel, that was the only Way to change the Resolution in WOFF. Played with different Resolutions, but no Success.

After that, I changed the Refreshrate for my Monitor from 60 HZ down to 50 HZ.

That means, my FPS are now locked at 50.

I also changed the Pre-Rendered Frames from 1 up to 3, V-Sync is ON in Nvidia-Control Panel.

In Workshop Settings I have left everything as it is.

Believe it or not, but the Game runs very good now, not perfect at all, it surely needs some more Tweaks, but my Eyes were getting very big, when I saw the good Results.

I don't know how and I don't know why, but this whole Problem has something to do with my Graphics-Card and the NVIDIA-Driver. It's definetely NOT the CPU.

Some Guys might want to try this out, as always, I can not promise if this will help, but in my Case it made a Difference, though!






Last edited by Andy73; 05/08/16 02:22 PM.
#4257850 - 05/08/16 02:23 PM Re: A challenge? [Re: kksnowbear]  
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Yes I just changed my desktop to 800x600 and went into WOFF and that was the resolution.Game had same FPS drops though so its not the resolution on my end.

#4257856 - 05/08/16 02:34 PM Re: A challenge? [Re: kksnowbear]  
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Stache Offline
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Agreed - if you can get FRAPS going, use it for now.

However - having issues with Shadowplay could be another indicator.
I believe Bronxx also reported the inability to get Shadowplay to work.


Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. A. Einstein

(System Specs:)

I7-6700k OC 4.4GHZ, 16GB DDR4 3200Mhz; Gigabyte Gaming 7 MB, G1 OC'ed GTX980ti; Three-Acer XB271HU WQHD Gsync 144Mhz; Samsung 950-512GB NVMe SSD; WD 2TB-7200rpm; Cooler Master HAF XB EVO, Nepton 240M cooler, V1000 PS; Windows 10 PRO; VKB GunfighterPro Stick; Thrustmaster TPR Pedals; Saitek Throttle; Dual TM MFD panels; TrackIR 5
#4257857 - 05/08/16 02:35 PM Re: A challenge? [Re: kksnowbear]  
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My Suggestion on my Problem is, that changing the Refreshrate from 60 HZ down to 50 HZ has helped a lot for me. Also Pre-Rendered Frames seems to be something the Game couldn't handle in my Case. Changing from 1 to 3 made definetely a Difference...

#4257859 - 05/08/16 02:36 PM Re: A challenge? [Re: Wolfstriked]  
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Originally Posted By: Wolfstriked
Yes I just changed my desktop to 800x600 and went into WOFF and that was the resolution.Game had same FPS drops though so its not the resolution on my end.


What are your system specs?


Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. A. Einstein

(System Specs:)

I7-6700k OC 4.4GHZ, 16GB DDR4 3200Mhz; Gigabyte Gaming 7 MB, G1 OC'ed GTX980ti; Three-Acer XB271HU WQHD Gsync 144Mhz; Samsung 950-512GB NVMe SSD; WD 2TB-7200rpm; Cooler Master HAF XB EVO, Nepton 240M cooler, V1000 PS; Windows 10 PRO; VKB GunfighterPro Stick; Thrustmaster TPR Pedals; Saitek Throttle; Dual TM MFD panels; TrackIR 5
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