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#4251362 - 04/21/16 07:42 AM DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model  
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EDITED: Thread disclaimer. 29/04/16 9:32AM AEST

Gents,

I have taken it upon myself, without any inside our outside influence from today forward to add this disclaimer to my first post in this thread after discussions held with Chris Ellis, Director of VEAO and putting forward my thoughts and feelings regarding the EFM and the Hawk module as a whole, privately with him.

My wish is that my posts and the members who have posted in this thread, both for and against my views written herein to stay in this thread with out being edited, moderated, deleted and the like. My views expressed in this thread were at time of writing, a blunt honest incite into the release of the EFM module presented to the 'customers of VEAO' like myself who held a high standard of what the module 'should' have been when the EFM was released. At the time of writing this review, I wrote it as honest and truthfully with the knowledge and evidence gathered through sources and quotes collected through public sources, etc which was presented to me up to this point when I made my first assessment of the hawk module EFM presented to the community.

In hindsight of what I have written in this thread leading up to the views expressed by Chris Ellis, Director of VEAO, my opinion was based entirely on my personal view supported by collective direct quotes,screen shots and\or otherwise from 2012 leading up to the release of the EFM 8 days ago on the 21st of April 2016 AEST. Before I spoke to Chris privately, my opinion and my posts up to that point still stand. At the time of writing my review, my thoughts and beliefs were solely my personal opinion and to this day I stand by them up.

It would be completely biased of me to continue my blunt, honest and hard line' approach and to carry on in this way my review of the EFM. Now knowing I having a clearer understanding of the hawk module presented by Chris Ellis and VEAO. The module as mentioned numerous times, is still in Beta and not the final product presented. I have expressed my views directly to Chris and accept his version and reasons the hawk module is in it's current Beta state and not at the standard I 'expected' it to be at time of the EFM release.

EDIT-2: disregard previous disclaimer as new information has come to light 19-08-17 which proves consumers will not see a completed module within the 6 months as promised to consumers such as myself by VEAO back in April of 2016.

EDIT-3: April 24th (tomorrow being ANZAC day) 2018, everything I have said in this thread is now 'back on the table' so to speak. The module is in a sad state of affairs, the licensing system of 3rd party developer's is still in a sad state of affairs. This thread is going to be kept 'alive' until the consumer get's what they paid for.

EDIT - 4 20-08-18 VEAO have given up on DCS, for the RISE AND FALL OF VEAO Skip to page 32




Feel free to post your findings with the EFM, damage model or multiple CTD issues

Since it is a low quality aircraft....The video has been recorded at the lowest possible quality keeping inline with the developers behind the aircraft


Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4251373 - 04/21/16 08:58 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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Harrr harrr harrrrrr! That's some mighty British steel and aluminium. Forged by old, left-wing, mighty workers not thwarted by Margaret Thatcher's evil doings.

On s serious note, I don't own the module, so I'm not much bothered by it (monitoring VEAO's situation, however, because I'm VERY interested in their warbird projects). What I can see here doesn't differ much from generally funky damage modelling in DCS planes (perfect for LOLz vids like this one). How does it work in combat, because that's what really matters? Especially against small caliber fire?

#4251380 - 04/21/16 09:51 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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I didn't know that the damage model was going to be part of this update. Have you managed to take off? I've read good things on the ED forums once people get into the air.


combtpilot.co.uk
#4251391 - 04/21/16 11:13 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Fudge93]  
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Originally Posted By: Fudge93
I didn't know that the damage model was going to be part of this update. Have you managed to take off? I've read good things on the ED forums once people get into the air.


Originally Posted By: Up the tree at VEAO
Hey Guys,

Here is a summary of the Go / No-Go list for the big patch:
Cockpit textures - Go
EFM - Go
EFM damage model - Go


you will only read good things on the ED forums.....the blunt honest opinion comments have been removed

I'm still in the process of piecing together another video of it in the air....the problem is every time I feel committed enough to start filming, the hawk CTD's time and again.

On a short note. It's damn impossible to break this bird in the air or on the ground, the wings don't snap off (believe me I have tried), the way the pixels (pilot) blacks out and comes to is a joke. The cockpit sounds change every time I can get past the CTD, after take off it sounds like a P-51 keeps buzzing the aircraft every 20 or so seconds. External sounds, the jet doesn't change engine pitch at any distance or with different throttle settings. Get it up to speed 90 degree left or right bank angle and pull the stick back and hold it in an endless turn.....does the plane eventually stall or lose controlled flight? no, I've tried only a few times due to CTD issues. The list goes on but I did say I'd keep it short.

#4251623 - 04/21/16 11:53 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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Righto my fellow Australians and all those disappointed customers of VEAO around the world.,

Quick update on the EFM released yesterday, This post will be regarding the amazing sound quality experienced by the upset and angry clients of VEAO and the responses by none other than "up the tree at VEAO"

I'll let the quotes do the talking regarding the sound issues experienced with the release of VEAO's Hawk EFM module. Personally, the issues could have been solved had the testers actually tested the module in the Public branch and not the developer branch. Now when I say public branch, it means the branch that is released to the 'Official' testers before it is released to the public. However, I have taken on the role as an unofficial tester, an off the books, unpaid tester to carry out what VEAO's paid testers should have picked up. No need to thank me gents, I'm doing my part for the sim community. Who knows, I may even get my review of the EFM published over at mudspike.

So without further ado....

Originally Posted By: Smartis
So just installed the patch for Hawk in DCS 2.
It really feels nice to fly with the EFM, good job on that!
But, It seems to me that alot of sounds is missing in cockpit, things like the gun pod and engine sound. All I hear is pretty much just some constant buzzing that doesn't change.
It's not like this in my 1.5 install. (Which is pre-efm ofc)

Is this as intended or these to come. Or am I just doing something wrong? Tried a repair, and complete reinstall of the Hawk module.


Originally Posted By: Schmidtfire
Same here. I think that those issues are being looked at by VEAO.


Originally Posted By: 'Up the tree at VEAO'
If you press F2 do you get the engine sounds?

Aden sounds were working last time I checked it.


(when exactly was the last time you checked? Alpha release back in 2013?)

Originally Posted By: mondaysoff
This is the first time I have opened up the Hawk module in DCS 2.0.2, made a custom mission just placing it at Nellis for practice, I always start from ramp cold in every mission I make so far. Anyways when I press fly and jump to the aircraft the cockpit is full of engine sounds even before anything is switched on, I press F2 and all is as quiet as a mouse.

I'll be honest I haven't had a lot of time to compare against other missions or nor have I done a repair.


Originally Posted By: burnjp5
I also have the constant buzzing sound in cockpit, I hear the other sounds as well but this one sounds almost like an electrical sound maybe?


Originally Posted By: 'up the tree at VEAO'
The sounds are fuel pump, the gryo's spinning and the Ardour engine running.
The fuel pump does seem a tad loud and the engine sounds aren't mixing quite right.


indeed the sounds aren't 'mixing quite right' doesn't take a genius to work that out. I figured that out the moment I got past multiple CTD's yesterday and made my damage model video

Originally Posted By: pegleg1972
The sound never changes.Full throttle or idle no difference.Hard to tell if engines on.


Wait for it....since old mate tree hugger is being bombarded with multiple complaints, this is how he handles the situation....

Originally Posted By: 'up the tree at VEAO'
There is a subtle difference at 65% and 85%rpm with the pitch getting higher.
Sounds are very much WIP at the moment.


yep, you guessed it, for those who may have missed it

Originally Posted By: 'up the tree at VEAO'
Sounds are very much WIP at the moment.


and again just in case it didn't sink in...

Originally Posted By: 'up the tree at VEAO'
Sounds are very much WIP at the moment.


I've saved the best quote till last....

Originally Posted By: 'up the tree at VEAO'
Just checked and the Aden sound has stopped working...WTF??!!###


So the tree hugger has no idea why his own aircraft is bugged??

Originally Posted By: 'up the tree at VEAO'
WTF??!!###


I'll tell you WTF??!!, you don't test your own aircraft, hence
Originally Posted By: 'Up the tree at VEAO'
Aden sounds were working last time I checked it.


nor do you follow up the list of bugs your paid testers should be testing in the public release branches. I could go on but this update is regarding sounds.

like this post from yesterday, which mind you was posted 9 hours before the sound complaints thread came to life

Originally Posted By: Schmidtfire
We finally got the long awaited sidewinder tone. The volume knob for it does not function properly, but that is no biggie. I like how VEAO uses separate sound files for seek and lock. As a modder, I've already changed the seeker sound to my liking. Overall great job on that!
Sadly no sound from the ADEN pod has been implemented. The engine sound also needs improvement. However, this is going in the right direction and is not a show stopper for me.


and "up the tree at VEAO's" response several minutes after the complaint

Originally Posted By: 'up the tree at VEAO'
Aden pod should have sound, well it did last time I tested it, I'll double check that one.


yet it took 9 hours and numerous complaints before someone at VEAO actually looked into the situation.

3 years of development.....SERIOUSLY 3 YEARS????? makes me question....

Originally Posted By: 'up the tree at VEAO'
WTF??!!###


Source:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=165239

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=165261










#4251679 - 04/22/16 04:36 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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With the MiG-21 grounded and the above (thank you Winfield, this is reaching for comedy gold) I'm getting very very nervous about the upcoming release of AJS Viggen - I'm sure I cannot in any way describe to a non-Swede how much a DCS Viggen means to a Swede having so many years been waiting for a SAAB in the flight sim world.

I am no more dead sure I will be a customer.

#4251691 - 04/22/16 07:11 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: theOden]  
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Originally Posted By: theOden
With the MiG-21 grounded and the above (thank you Winfield, this is reaching for comedy gold) I'm getting very very nervous about the upcoming release of AJS Viggen - I'm sure I cannot in any way describe to a non-Swede how much a DCS Viggen means to a Swede having so many years been waiting for a SAAB in the flight sim world.

I am no more dead sure I will be a customer.


Just think about the Typhoon these clowns intend to develop. Oh I can't wait for the MFD function issues their customers will experience on not one but 3 MFD screens in the typhoon.
The HUD in the hawk doesn't even work. i'll re-phrase that because it's not entirely correct. It works, then it doesn't work, it works, and now it doesn't work.

3 years in development and 'the tree hugger' has no idea what his company is doing. If he was the head at Walmart he would of been sacked years ago. Couldn't even run a mcdonalds franchise profitably.

Since he loves Nando's, if he ran a 'Nando's, the only people who would eat there would be his sidekick Pman and himself, no doubt in my mind the other devs would be trying to distance themselves from 'tree hugger at VEAO's' Nando's in fear of food poisoning.

Imagine the food.....place your order then 3 years later it's still not ready. 3 years waiting for an empty plate and no food. The entire project needs to be scrapped and the aircraft moved to the 'mods' section.

Just look at his responses to the people's questions, "nando's nando's nando's" on the odd occasion that he takes a question seriously, you get

Originally Posted By: 'up the tree at VEAO'

WTF??!!###


Here is rule number 1 when working for VEAO. Let the community post the fix to the problem as VEAO have better things to do (like eat nando's). Here is a fine example of that rule being put into practice....

Bare in mind, rather than issue an official notification to fix the CTD issues, VEAO sit back and let someone who is not a member of VEAO nor on the books and paid by either ED or VEAO, let alone have an 'official title' like "ED Tester", "Moderator" "3rd Paty Dev" and the like write up a post regarding the fix to the problem. What do actually pay their devs to do?

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=165297

Originally Posted By: 'Charly_Owl'
Hullo everyone,

Many of you (myself included) had an important number of crashes with the Hawk EFM in DCS 2.0.2 (NTTR), often at random times. Most of the time, the Crash-to-Desktop occurs with an error message coming from Weather.dll. Apparently, the error comes from a null return from a Hawk controls input lua file, which causes the crashes we're currently experiencing.

This can be caused by a number of things, mainly being that the DCS 2.0.2 updater often takes files directly from DCS 1.5.3 from your hard drive instead of downloading it. For me, it borked my install by mixing EFM files with Pre-EFM Hawk files together. IMO it is a bit out of VEAO's control since the update process is controlled by ED and sometimes can cause unintended regressions, especially during complete code rewrites implemented by third party developers. Since many of us are running both versions of DCS (1.5.3 and 2.0.2), sometimes we can run into issues caused by one version being unintentionally corrupted by the auto-updater. I tried many different things and here is the procedure that eliminated the crashes for me.


Once the community member has written up the fix (unpaid and off the books of course, basically it would have cost too much to have a dev or someone on the payrole do it) VEAO then take the time to contribute to the fix.

Originally Posted By: 'Pman'
Yes all copies of dcs, open beta, open alpha and release.

Pman

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk


Notice it was sent using Tapatalk on the company phone.....this means "We are at nando's and do not have the time to write a step by step fix"

I know your waiting out for my take on the flight model....stay tuned, it's coming.....like the next hawk patch

Last edited by Winfield; 04/23/16 01:42 AM. Reason: Comment redacted
#4251701 - 04/22/16 08:47 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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My gods, Winfield... You're a [Text deleted].


Do not call other members names. Address the message content, not the author's characteristics.

Last edited by CyBerkut; 04/22/16 09:37 AM. Reason: Moderation

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#4251706 - 04/22/16 09:01 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: komemiute]  
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Originally Posted By: komemiute
My gods, Winfield... You're a [Text deleted].


you just want another green rep square...

Last edited by CyBerkut; 04/22/16 09:38 AM. Reason: Moderation of quoted post
#4251739 - 04/22/16 11:24 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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Originally Posted By: Winfield


However, Take credit for the work around and comment as though it came from inside VEAO's quality control think tank



What you may not know is that this fix came from Pete (Pman) himself, I merely transcribed it since I tested it with him. So credit effectively goes to him.

Last edited by Chuck_Owl; 04/22/16 11:29 AM.
#4251746 - 04/22/16 11:43 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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It's like an episode of Fawlty Towers.

#4251749 - 04/22/16 11:47 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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Yes, Basil used to draw incorrect conclusions based upon partial or assumed knowledge and made himself look silly in most episodes.

#4251752 - 04/22/16 12:09 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Chuck_Owl]  
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Originally Posted By: Chuck_Owl
Originally Posted By: Winfield


However, Take credit for the work around and comment as though it came from inside VEAO's quality control think tank



What you may not know is that this fix came from Pete (Pman) himself, I merely transcribed it since I tested it with him. So credit effectively goes to him.


Thank you Charlie, i'll redact the comment in my post.




#4251757 - 04/22/16 12:36 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Vitesse]  
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Originally Posted By: Hellfire257
It's like an episode of Fawlty Towers.
Originally Posted By: Vitesse
Yes, Basil used to draw incorrect conclusions based upon partial or assumed knowledge and made himself look silly in most episodes.


Fawlty towers is like sitting though a decade of watching the golden girls compared to the content written in this thread.

Days of our lives is more on par with the seriousness of Fawlty towers in comparison. I agree with your comparison of Basil though, Basil and "tree hugger at VEAO" share much of the same mentality and thought processes.

Would you both like me to post up some gathered transcripts written for Basil in Fawlty Towers with evidence supporting my claim with a few more collective quotes from "tree lover at VEAO"? I am more than happy to contribute so you can see these 2 suffer the same drone effect? Basil in Fawlty Towers and "tree lover at VEAO" or are you both content to research these for yourself?


#4251758 - 04/22/16 12:43 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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3 years and this is what the Hawk is? Yeah no, Basil is the dev here, no one else.

#4251759 - 04/22/16 12:55 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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As a Brit I was looking forward to the Hawk, the latest fiasco just continues to erode away at the little hope that is left.

I'm frankly scared to start it up.


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4251761 - 04/22/16 12:57 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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Thought better of it.

Last edited by Vitesse; 04/22/16 12:59 PM.
#4251762 - 04/22/16 01:01 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Vitesse]  
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Originally Posted By: Vitesse
I think Kom was probably right about you.


naw you angry you missed out on a green rep square?

never fear, plenty to go round

Green Rep Square

Naw frown

you know their losing the battle when they get personal

#4251763 - 04/22/16 01:02 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Vitesse]  
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Originally Posted By: Vitesse
Thought better of it.


indeed you did....pity you were to slow on the edit button

I don't have the heart to give you a red rep square.....see how generous I am?

#4251766 - 04/22/16 01:06 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Paradaz]  
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Originally Posted By: Paradaz
As a Brit I was looking forward to the Hawk, the latest fiasco just continues to erode away at the little hope that is left.

I'm frankly scared to start it up.


Let me show you what will happen if you attempt to start it up....trust me, just uninstall it and sell the key (if you can find a buyer) smile


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