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#4252021 - 04/22/16 10:59 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Tirak]  
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Originally Posted By: Tirak
EDIT: The quote reply didn't work, this is in regards to Force10's reply to me.

That's uncalled for and you know it.

DCS 1.5 is the current stable version of DCS that we should judge module integrity on. DCS 2.0 is a developer alpha program. It's in constant flux, and it breaks things left right and center whenever an update is put out. Fixes in 1.5 do not always work in 2.0 and vise verse. If you want to judge the MiG, then do so where it's been released to Beta, 1.5. Are there problems with the module? Of course. Has there been a huge issue with Activations, yes. There are plenty of areas to go after LN for mistakes and delays, but judging the product based on its showing in 2.0, which is unstable at the best of times, is unfair to say the least. It would be like comparing a release in Prepar3d and FSX, similar games, but not the same. You wouldn't go around saying RAZBAM is terrible if it released a Mirage that worked perfectly in FSX, but suffered problem in Prepar3d.

I would also like to point out, the list of completed modules is 4 aircraft long. The A-10C, the Blackshark, the F-86 and the MiG-15Bis. Notice anything similar about these modules? They're all BST and ED modules. ED, which has free access to the code, and hasn't released a module in years, and BST, which has a special close relationship to ED given it's made of former devs and has a special agreement. Every other third party is in beta, hell even BST's 2 helicopters, which have been in development for longer than the other Beta modules are still incomplete, with features missing.

If I'm misinterpreting what you're saying Force, my apologies, but I just wanted to make my position a bit clearer cheers



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#4252024 - 04/22/16 11:07 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: SkateZilla]  
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My apologies for missing the WWII birds, I had been under the impression they were still in early access.

#4252032 - 04/22/16 11:28 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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AS for Bugs, There's always going to be bugs, some are introduced by patches, others are introduced via outside software (Virus Protection, Harddisk Tooks, DirectX Injectors, 3rd Party / Un-official Mods, User Error, etc).

Are you guys Telling me there's no Bugs in FSX, P3d, Windows 7, Windows 8 and Windows 10??
All Of Those are Considered "RELEASED"

Simple:
Released: Feature Complete (All Planned Features Included)
Early Access: Planned Features in Development.

Official DCS Modules will Always Be Supported, so Bugs will be checked, reported and resolved.

If you Guys Nit Picked FSX/P3D or BMS half as hard as you do DCS, You'll find several glaring bugs/issues w/ that software as well.

No Large Software Suite is Perfect, No Support System is Perfect, No Forum is Perfect, No Society is Perfect.

To Sit and Claim there have Not been Software Advances, Releases, Content, Etc Published by Eagle Dynamics is mis-guided and unfounded, You're being blinded by your Hatred and disgust from your personal experiences, which in every company Differe Greatly depending on the person. (ie, I Know people that Swear Up and Down EA has the Best Support team ever, and well we know people that swear EA has the worst team ever, and heard stories from both sides).

Did EDGE Take Longer than Expected to Be available to Consumers? Very Likely.
Coding an Entirely New Graphics Engine From Scratch is NOT a 8-16 Months of a Code Copy/Paste Development Cycle.
DirectX 9 -> DirectX 11 is a Significant Change in Coding Style and Shader Model, it's not a Take your Source Code and Paste into a Converter and Re-Compile w/ DirectX 11 API.

E.D. Did not license a Engine (ie Unreal, FrostBite, etc), which is why EA and Other companies can pump out Games in 10 month cycles.


You guys are Passionate, Great, we need more people like that, but your hatred and rage is mis-guided, mis-informed and over-zealous.







Last edited by SkateZilla; 04/22/16 11:33 PM.

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#4252033 - 04/22/16 11:29 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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@ Tirak

No problems on my part.........I'm just highlighting the blur that ED have created by using these pre-release terms but not actually defining their interpretation to anyone - most likely intentional as I thinking they find it easy to mask the true state of all their unfinished content.

@Skatezilla

I don't think anyone has ever mentioned there hasn't been any advances however ED often take 1 step forwards and 5 backwards. Are you really trying to make excuses for the incompetency shown by ED with everything they have ever done been delayed by huge margins? As for Edge been late....that you're even questioning that is late makes you quite the comedian. A look at some posts from 2 years ago will give you a bigger laugh followed by the fiasco that followed last year ultimately ending with the split Dev branches - you're gonna tell us it was all part of the plan they rustled up on the back of a fag packet next.

No-one expects anything to be perfect, yes other companies release software with bugs that need patching/fixing .....however people do expect ED at the very least to learn from all their previous mistakes and start hitting dates in the same centenary that they actually start something. They blatantly stumble from one mess-up to the next without taking anything on board and this is the big difference between them and other companies. I'm embarrassed on their behalf, it really is nothing short of an absolute shambles.


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#4252041 - 04/22/16 11:50 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Paradaz]  
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Originally Posted By: Paradaz
@ Tirak

No problems on my part.........I'm just highlighting the blur that ED have created by using these pre-release terms but not actually defining their interpretation to anyone - most likely intentional as I thinking they find it easy to mask the true state of all their unfinished content.

@Skatezilla

I don't think anyone has ever mentioned there hasn't been any advances however ED often take 1 step forwards and 5 backwards. Are you really trying to make excuses for the incompetency shown by ED with everything they have ever done been delayed by huge margins? As for Edge been late....that you're even questioning that is late makes you quite the comedian. A look at some posts from 2 years ago will give you a bigger laugh followed by the fiasco that followed last year ultimately ending with the split Dev branches - you're gonna tell us it was all part of the plan they rustled up on the back of a fag packet next.

No-one expects anything to be perfect, yes other companies release software with bugs that need patching/fixing .....however people do expect ED at the very least to learn from all their previous mistakes and start hitting dates in the same centenary that they actually start something. They blatantly stumble from one mess-up to the next without taking anything on board and this is the big difference between them and other companies. I'm embarrassed on their behalf, it really is nothing short of an absolute shambles.


TBH, That's the nature of software development, you fix one Problem, and 3 or 4 introduce themselves as a result of the change made to the code to fix the original, and even then, those 3 or 4 problems wont surface on the hardware profiles, and it takes wide spread distribution before users w/ unique hardware and software profiles start to find the new problems.


ie, Using an Example from Xbox on Windows 10/UWA Testing, we are still finding major bugs, and reporting them and the issue is not even Microsoft's problem to fix, they have to wait for an outside source of the problem to address the problem on their end, it's the Drivers used by specific devices causing the problems because some companies take performance shortcuts in compiling their drivers;
Specifically AMD, nVidia, ASMedia and about 3 dozen USB 3.0 Chip companies.

I'm sure you guys can relate that to DCS, as there are issues AMD Users see that nVidia users dont, and vise versa.


The Split branches (1.5/2.0 I Assume are the ones you referring too), have nothing to do with EDGE, Both Branches Run EDGE.

AS for "Missing Dates", no Direct Release Dates for ED Items have been stated in a while, just broad (Q1, Q2, etc etc), unless you're speaking of the "We expect it to be released this Friday" announcements only for it to slip to Monday or mid-week next week, those cant be helped, stuff comes up, it's not like when they announce a specific day that they are already sitting on the intended build waiting for that day to come, it's a best case scenario hence the "we hope/we aim/our goal" comments in those announcements.

Alot of People Assume EDGE was announced in Early 2011, it was not, EDGE was not Announced w/ A-10C Beta either, and the NTTR Currently in 2.0 Alpha is not the same NTTR that came w/ A-10C Beta.

I've given a detailed breakdown of the timeline before, multiple times here, only for it to be dismissed within seconds of my posting it, further supporting the "if it doesn't support my views on ED I don't want to hear it" mentality.

Development Renders from an External Early Version of EDGE were posted LATE 2011, After The Decision that the DX9 Engine would Not be Able to Handle the Object Count, Dont mistake those renders for a Fully functional engine, it was an external program running basic rendering (3d mesh, Light source, shadow). This is not even mentioning the fact that the Licensed Team behind the NTTR in the A-10C Beta Dissolved, and ED Literally started it over again from Scratch Retaining No I.P. to develop Alongside the New GFX Engine and fullfill the Promise to A-10C PrePuchase Customers.

Graphics engines are developed Externally from a Game or Simulation, and then integrated, whether or not a Professional Simulator Company Came along and purchased a license to use said engine while it was in development and using it for themselves is another story and not uncommon, there's a history of Major Companies Licensing out their unfinished engines to development companies who may or may not complete the engine to their own specs quicker than the company that leased it.
(ie a Non DCS Example: the USAF Licensed the Engine from ThirdWire, and Integrated Items for Modern combat that Thirdwire didnt even have planned and still never integrated into their own base code,
Microsoft ESP (Pro Version of FSX, is Licensed by at least 2 Dozen Private Simulator Companies and Manufacturers, Why do you think Boeing Bought the IP, because it was Dead in the water, and they wanted to use the Engine for their own Simulators).

However these Completed Engines are specialized to a specific group of hardware, and usually coded a lot quicker, and would have issues running on the millions/billions of different desktop hardware profiles in the world today.

So the Comments regarding say AviaTS, the Base Graphics Engine is Obviously the same as EDGE, however it was very likely programmed and compiled by AviaTS to run on a Specific Hardware profile, and likely not any profile of hardware used in anyone's Residential Home.

If ED only had to develop a Hardware Pool of 2-4 Types of CPU's, a Specific GPU and Specific hardware set of controls, then Im Sure they would have been able to pump out their Completed Version of EDGE Prior to late 2015, that's not the Case, the Current Market offers well over 6 dozen types of active production GPU's, spanning at least 8 Architectures and about 200 Performance Profiles.

2012->2015 w/ a Few Breaks in Development (Which were announced in the update threads in the "official updates" section a few times.
3-3.5 Maybe 4+Years for a new rendering engine from scratch from a Small/Med Size Genre Specific Studio is actually a decent Development cycle, if you remove the "development on hold" times , it's less than 3 years.


Another Example:
Prepared3D v1.0 Released November 2010 based off the last version of Microsoft ESP SDK which had Partial DX11 Coded Items included Already.
Prepared3D v2.0 Released November 2013 w/ DirectX 11 Graphics Engine.
And Lockheed is a Significantly Larger Studio, and they did Not have to Model Combat Essential Systems or Weapons.

You See development cycle a pattern Here?,

Last edited by SkateZilla; 04/23/16 12:34 AM.

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#4252044 - 04/22/16 11:58 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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I'm not coming from a position of hatred or rage Skate...just frustration. wink

It's seems that this method of how ED/3rd parties are releasing content is flawed...and there is no end in sight. You have modules being released in varying states of early access/Alpha/Beta that are relying on a game engine that is also in a perpetual state of early access/Alpha/Beta. It's a constant merry-go-round of unfinished work revolving around an unfinished engine that leads to something always being broken.


That's just my opinion of course. thumbsup


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#4252054 - 04/23/16 12:17 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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sorry, took a minute, but I significantly edited my post w/ some clarifications/details.


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#4252055 - 04/23/16 12:19 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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You make valid generic points in your examples Skate.......however the likes of VEAO having a non-functional module as a DCS example isn't hardware related it's quite simply incompetence because it should easily have been captured during testing.

The mere fact that internal builds don't even have the same integration testing or alignment with the release builds isn't even funny....it's yet another example of being unprofessional. Basic mistakes that should never even see the light of day.

You have even described previous mistakes after release as 'simple compiler issues'......if they really are simple then we shouldn't be seeing them in the first place. I'm probably not the only one bored and fed up of these pathetic excuses. Remember what I said about learning from mistakes?......obviously not in ED or 3rd party vocabularies.


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#4252059 - 04/23/16 12:25 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Force10]  
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Originally Posted By: Force10
I'm not coming from a position of hatred or rage Skate...just frustration. wink

It's seems that this method of how ED/3rd parties are releasing content is flawed...and there is no end in sight. You have modules being released in varying states of early access/Alpha/Beta that are relying on a game engine that is also in a perpetual state of early access/Alpha/Beta. It's a constant merry-go-round of unfinished work revolving around an unfinished engine that leads to something always being broken.


That's just my opinion of course. thumbsup


All This may be true. So then where does it leave us? Stop developing the core sim so 3rd party devs no longer have a moving target? close out 3rd party devs until the sim is "complete"? Is there a solution to this that won't frustrate people but still makes business sense?

Last edited by amnwrx; 04/23/16 12:28 AM.
#4252069 - 04/23/16 12:55 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Paradaz]  
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Originally Posted By: Paradaz
You make valid generic points in your examples Skate.......however the likes of VEAO having a non-functional module as a DCS example isn't hardware related it's quite simply incompetence because it should easily have been captured during testing.

The mere fact that internal builds don't even have the same integration testing or alignment with the release builds isn't even funny....it's yet another example of being unprofessional. Basic mistakes that should never even see the light of day.

You have even described previous mistakes after release as 'simple compiler issues'......if they really are simple then we shouldn't be seeing them in the first place. I'm probably not the only one bored and fed up of these pathetic excuses. Remember what I said about learning from mistakes?......obviously not in ED or 3rd party vocabularies.



I cannot comment on 3rd parties, or their development.

However regarding "compiler issues", I can give a example that occurred withing the last 24 hours.

I spent 4 hours last night and today re-coding my Updater Utility, which is less than 2000 Lines of Code, because a Visual Studio 2015 HotFix/Update Pushed out by Microsoft in the last batch of updates decided to modify my code without any prompts, and actually breaking some functions in the SDK that worked fine prior to the update, and when I asked MS about it, I was told "those functions are no longer available, use these", with a smidge of an example piece of code that offered no link to the actual code I was using previously that worked 100% fine, but was removed for undisclosed reason.

These Things happen, I've dealt with them first hand.

Frustration building over the state of the Hawk and C101, sure, I can see it, ED can See it, VEAO, AvioDEV, and everyone involved with DCS Can See it,
No one wants to get the Hawk EFM and Systems Done more than VEAO, They've had their share of setbacks as well.

Other 3rd Party Developers have as well, the whole situation between Beczl and Now formed Leatherneck Sims and the Looooong awaited MiG-21Bis.
RAZBam Encountered some issues at first, but have experience in Code Development, Customer Service and Public Relations as they have been developing products for FSX for a significant amount of time, it's nothing new to them Customer Service and Public Relations wise, simply a new API and Development Language, which they have demonstrated significant development curve on.

I'm not gonna sit here and post these stupendously long explanations on everything, as it would honestly and rightfully so be seen as me trying to persuade you not to be mad or frustrated, which I do not have the right to do so.

As for Customer "Moderation" on the other Forum, There's rules, those rules exist for a reason, while there's no wiggle room for any form of negative ranting, there is room for Constructive Product Feedback, It's a Business Forum, As Such, Behavior and Feedback is to be done professionaly or in a manner that's mature

This is A Community Forum, Outside General Behavioral guidelines, you are free to do as you wish.

Would you goto a official meeting place of a company you buy products from and just have a temper explosion of emotion in the middle of their lobby, or would you wait until you same them at a public undisclosed random place to give them a piece of your mind in a casual environment/scenario?

I'll tell you, I would NOT goto any of my Suppliers' Office Lobbies or Forums and Publicly Let out an Emotional Bomb over Products I buy from them for use personally or in my company, I'll just goto the casual environment (chatroom, bar, tech bar, etc) and find someone else with a similar issue and discuss it with them privately and in a unprofessional capacity, and possibly find comfort in knowing I was not the only one, or a fix for the problem or alternative product to use).


Like I Said, not gonna sit here and participate aggressively in this discussion, but decided to offer a alternate perspective for you to consider, just a lil one..

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#4252077 - 04/23/16 01:34 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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Given all that you've said Skate, I can see where there's a disconnect. It's pretty clear you've been involved in many areas of software development for awhile...so much so, that you probably can't Identify what it's like to be just a regular ole' customer that's paid for something that's not working properly. Even if you say you can. wink

The points you laid out are good insight...but these are things that shouldn't be necessary for a paying customer to understand. The level of patience required to be a DCS customer seems to be growing larger as development continues instead of shorter as the product matures.


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#4252094 - 04/23/16 02:08 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Force10]  
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Originally Posted By: Force10

The points you laid out are good insight...but these are things that shouldn't be necessary for a paying customer to understand. The level of patience required to be a DCS customer seems to be growing larger as development continues instead of shorter as the product matures.


Q.E.D



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#4252185 - 04/23/16 01:48 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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A very big good afternoon to SimHQ's and ED's fine VEAO EFM Lover's and hater's.
After a few more tests and comparisons, this slapped together, low budget presentation will be on the 5+ years worth (the hawk lover's guessed it...more evidence supporting this 5+year development claim) of texture development regarding this awesome piece of flight sim software. Now due to the team of researches I gathered together (just myself), a think tank of quality control if I may, that is providing you all with the best flight sim experience and entertainment that can be mustered.

Side note: During the research and development phase, I have uncovered the exact moment in time when the cracks first began to appear between the developer VEAO and Tango (no offence Tango)

If there is a story to be told in the flight sim texture world gents.....this is it, a back to roots 2012 texture announcement and comparison to what was released on the 20th April 2016 Australian EST.

With out further Ado....


06-23-2012, 09:07 PM
http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1489471&postcount=6


Originally Posted By: 'tree hugger at VEAO'
What day is it?
Saturday, oh so I guess it's eye candy day!!!

Enjoy




Originally Posted By: 'tree hugger at VEAO'
06-24-2012, 12:10 AM
http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1489541&postcount=15
Yes Mark 1

And the GPS is a Bendix King Skymap 111c that the RAF and Royal Navy use.

We are aiming to have it fully functional within the sim.


Then the tree termite posts a photo of this from the real aircraft to support his bogus claim



followed by....

Originally Posted By: 'tree hugger at VEAO'
Also just to clarify, the version of the Hawk we are currently making is the Red Arrows variant, hence why some things you see may not fit with general T1 pictures, like the smoke indicators as one example.


I can't tell the difference between this early build and what we have now...

Originally Posted By: 'tree hugger at VEAO'
07-27-2012, 12:21 PM
I've just added another video which shows the close up of the cockpit switch test system.
This will also show you some great attention to detail within the model.

Same disclaimer applies.


Hold onto your hats gents, brace yourself against something firm because this next post knocked me off my chair.

Originally Posted By: 'tree hugger at VEAO'
http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1703053&postcount=20
03-20-2013, 09:21 PM
Me too buddy, but I do know how to project manage and set up deals


How is that military contract deal working out for you now? That is what later became their calling card when asked why VEAO were building the hawk. At first it was "we love the hawk" then it was "military contracts" now it's "I wish we didn't"

Just in case you did not read that right.....

Originally Posted By: 'tree hugger at VEAO'
I do know how to project manage and set up deals


One last time, just for those who are still standing

Originally Posted By: 'tree hugger at VEAO'
I do know how to project manage and set up deals


The arrogance of the man shining through in the early days

Originally Posted By: 'tree hugger at VEAO'

03-20-2013, 10:18 PM
http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1703071&postcount=22
I prefer to do that in Starbucks, with a tall skinny latte haha

Or a tall skinny blonde, whichever takes my fancy


This post is proof 'the tree lopper' is inhaling more than avgas fumes....

Originally Posted By: 'tree hugger at VEAO'
03-22-2013, 03:32 PM

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1704616&postcount=32

Thanks guys, and ill try not too haha

On the plane, waiting for doors to close up.

Why is it when sitting back here that I picture flying the Hog lol
Especially at take off, I look forward and picture the dials and using my TiR to look as we bank left on climb out haha


Moving onto some more textures....

Originally Posted By: 'tree hugger at VEAO'
06-07-2012, 10:52 PM
06-07-2012, 10:52 PM
http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1477354&postcount=1
Please note that these are early build concept tests and do not represent the final product.




One of these shots I edited, I took the screen shot in 1.5, cut the plane out and pasted it over an early build in the following.....can you guess which one that was?? No, neither can I

Originally Posted By: 'tree hugger at VEAO'
07-17-2012, 09:13 PM
http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1509016&postcount=84

We are proud to present an awesome skin made by Blondie - Skin XX278 2012 Hawk Solo

I'm sure you'll agree he's done an awesome job!!






Have a go at this. I actually remembered reading it back in 2012 when I first mentioned the outside textures being a cut and paste job from the FC2 mod. Not long after this I made mention of the FSX quality cut and paste job on the cockpit....you guessed it, those posts were removed. But there is it, Old mate 'I love trees' had the external model already developed as far back as 2010.
The cockpit as you could imagine with the FC2 model was a WIP....see what I did there? same as the sounds, textures, nando's.....all a WIP

Originally Posted By: 'tree hugger at VEAO'
07-26-2012, 09:01 PM
http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1517153&postcount=114
We already have a public mod available for FC2 Crash??
Have had for over 2 years now.


No idea what this 'tree lopper at VEAO' was flying back when he made this post....it can't have been the hawk EFM, Razbam must have shipped an early access model of the Mirage and 'i love trees' thought he was still flying it

Originally Posted By: 'tree hugger at VEAO'
07-30-2012, 02:36 PM
http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1519825&postcount=116
Oh she's very very agile, a lot of fun you will have


Have a go at this one....

Originally Posted By: 'tree hugger at VEAO'
09-13-2012, 07:45 PM
http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1551076&postcount=122

Guess what time it is, yep it's eye candy time!!!

Say horay for the candy man, the candy man, the candy man....ok shut up Ells and show the candy...

Introducing the DCS:Hawk night time lighting, in cockpit and externals.

Independently variable cockpit lighting, also demonstrating the landing light.






SERIOUSLY???? a 'professional' developer who previously stated

Originally Posted By: 'tree hugger at VEAO'
I do know how to project manage and set up deals


Is an absolute laughing stock in the flight sim world.....

Originally Posted By: 'tree hugger at VEAO'
WTF??!!###


WTF??!!Indeed, I keep asking myself the same thing every time the hawk fails to load.
Who can tell the difference between 2012 and 2016?.....Tom Weiss.....VEAO need your help
Where has all the development hours actually gone?.....seems more than likely to be a tax fraud to me, Do up some dodgy invoices, bill them out as hours spent and claim them back on tax. That is what it looks like to me, a tax haven for dodgy devs calling themselves VEAO. No doubt a bunch of tree loppers who couldn't wait to get out of the sun and this was an 'easy' way out

Yet another 'professional' perspective on the 2012 textures and i'm still waiting on a 'promised' worn cockpit....which now i will have to pay extra for when a modder releases it as paid DLC for DCS....What exactly has the 'texture artist' been doing for that last 5+ years.

Originally Posted By: 'Pyroflash'
Why does it look so clean? Did this Hawk just roll off the assembly line or something?


and a rep from VEAO's response

Originally Posted By: 'OldCrow'

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1551446&postcount=130 09-14-2012, 12:34 PM
It hasnt been flown enough yet. By the time we're finished testing though, it will be very well worn indeed^^


Confirmation the 2012 textures are now here to stay as Pman 3.5 years later informs the flight sim world

Originally Posted By: 'Pman'
04-20-2016, 05:42 PM
http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2751407&postcount=2
The cockpit is being tweaked with small details being improved upon but the vast bulk of the cockpit textures are now finished and set

Pman


I'll tell you where VEAO have been the last 5 years.... With none other than 'I plant trees' on holiday

Originally Posted By: 'tree hugger at VEAO'
09-14-2012, 07:54 PM
http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1551757&postcount=142
Hahaha well I'm away in 2 weeks for 6 days laying on a beach in Spain so I'll have a lot of typing to do when I get back.


and a lot to answer for considering your module now in 2016 is worthless and how your company got this far under the 3rd party title raises many questions that need answering.

Ear gents.....I mean hear...uh here gents is a reference to my page 1 posts in this thread regarding sounds for our money spent on wasted download bandwidth of what VEAO are calling a DCS module

Originally Posted By: 'tree hugger at VEAO'
09-15-2012, 04:32 PM
http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1552199&postcount=147
Ear candy is just as important to us as eye candy.
They will be realistic as well.

However they will be as close to real Hawk sounds as the sim can handle putting out through speakers and headphones.


hmm 2016 and the what sounds? numerous posts regarding the issues experienced from 2 days ago listed in this thread.


Who exactly are the 'RL' pilots who tested the hawk?mind you I am still waiting for display. Yet take a moment....These 'RL' are the same ones who no doubt 'tested' the recently released EFM.....As the self proclaimed Unofficial tester, I will be testing this once I've burned through the bugs list comparing the pre alpha release (2012) to the EFM in 2016

Originally Posted By: 'tree hugger at VEAO'
09-17-2012, 09:31 PM
http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1553603&postcount=152
9 ship is possible, although the VRA don't all have access to our module yet. But rest assured when they do, a display will be had


Yet....have a crack at this, I know your all keen for it

Originally Posted By: kelusk
09-18-2012, 09:08 PM
http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1554369&postcount=161
Do what Beczl did and make an announcements thread, that way we don't have to trawl through other peoples posts?

Also how far along is the external model in terms of animation, e.g. flaps, gear, speed-brake etc?


Originally Posted By: 'tree hugger at VEAO'
They have been modelled from the start.


Have they?? seriously were they modeled from the start??? because it's now April 2016, 2 days after the EFM release I get this in the latest official DCS update.

Originally Posted By: 'Chizh'
http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2745494&postcount=11 *F2 view; flaps and RPM indicator now working, *Standby (emergency) brake and flaps functions added.


Originally Posted By: 'tree hugger at VEAO'


And here it is gents..the first sign the cracks started to appear



I bet I can find a quote from Pyroflash 3 years on from this post probably wishing he never wrote those words..



I laughed hard at this comment.Yep, it set the standard in failure. Take note of the flaps, brakes and nando's working back in 2012..... Like I said, laughing stock of the flight sim world, hey to the lovers and backers of VEAO.....he said it, not me



Anyone else remember the gear issue not so long ago, or with the release of 1.5?? it was still an issue in 2012



Yet I have saved some of the best for last....Even after watching these hawk lovers post on these very forums criticising the hawk haters thoughts and posts regarding VEAO. Do you want that refund or is the hawk buried under a ton of dust like my mig-21 module? still waiting to be found by a rescue party complete with sniffer dogs so you can test it again in 2.02??






I will leave my 'Unofficial testing' regarding the EFM released hawk textures with a final post.....mind you, the 'hawk' was meant to be a 6-12 month project. I'm saving that quote for my EFM review, we are getting there gents.....this review is mudspike worthy, yet I am happy to release it for free.....Seriously how many of you would rather pay for this review as DLC than buy the new P-51 campaign?

Look in the Typhoon thread, 'i love trees' states, "The Typhoon will be a 2-3 year project, unlike the hawk which will be a 6 - 12 month project....2-3 years yet here we are 5+ years into it and the typhoon hasn't even began development....This confirms my initial thoughts regarding the tax haven.



**Disclaimer**

those still trying to find the edited photo I mentioned earlier from 1.5.....good luck because It's a direct copy from the author...

#4252214 - 04/23/16 03:47 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 792
Winfield Online content
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Winfield  Online Content
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come one come all....

Originally Posted By: Winfield
Originally Posted By: Hellfire257
It's like an episode of Fawlty Towers.
Originally Posted By: Vitesse
Yes, Basil used to draw incorrect conclusions based upon partial or assumed knowledge and made himself look silly in most episodes.


roll up roll up, I'm keen for another round of who deserves a green rep square....

Originally Posted By: komemiute
My gods, Winfield... You're a [Text deleted].


Do not call other members names. Address the message content, not the author's characteristics.


any more takers???

Originally Posted By: Winfield
[quote=Vitesse]I think Kom was probably right about you.


naw you angry you missed out on a green rep square?

never fear, plenty to go round

Green Rep Square

Naw frown

you know their losing the battle when they get personal


My direct quotes do the talking for me.....

Originally Posted By: Winfield
Originally Posted By: Vitesse
Thought better of it.


indeed you did....pity you were to slow on the edit button

I don't have the heart to give you a red rep square.....see how generous I am?


Any more hawk lovers out there care to join in and make it personal against me for my view on just how bad this aircraft actually is???

please....

Stay tuned folks.....next will be my 'Unofficial Tester's review of the Avionics. 5+ years in the making. enough for anyone to ask after this long in development

Originally Posted By: 'up the tree at VEAO'
WTF??!!###



#4252233 - 04/23/16 04:43 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,855
Paradaz Offline
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Paradaz  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,855
UK
^^^ Comedy Gold

I started the Hawk module up earlier. 5 minutes later after a lot of progress bar inactivity it crashed as expected.

Best $40 I ever spent said absolutely no-one ever. Bets on how long it's going to be before we get to experience the EFM that's been in development for such a long time?


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4252238 - 04/23/16 04:55 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
Joined: Apr 2014
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2365 views in this thread alone and counting.....2000 of those views has to be veao's future contract agreement bosses canning the project

The rest are no doubt their lawyers bashing the F5 key looking for a way to sue me

Last edited by Winfield; 04/23/16 05:08 PM.
#4252317 - 04/23/16 11:00 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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Posts: 47
Originally Posted By: Winfield
...(an actual ton of crap)...

You seem to have WAY too much time on your hands. It's a shame you're not interested in doing something productive with it...

#4252324 - 04/23/16 11:44 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Zoomie13]  
Joined: Jul 2005
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Force10 Offline
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CA
Originally Posted By: Zoomie13
Originally Posted By: Winfield
...(an actual ton of crap)...

You seem to have WAY too much time on your hands. It's a shame you're not interested in doing something productive with it...


Helping other members make an informed decision on purchasing certain modules, or purchasing from certain 3rd party developers, could be considered productive or useful to some.


Asus Z87 Sabertooth motherboard
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______________________________________________________

Oddball from Kelly's Heroes: "If we're late, it's cause we're dead"



#4252330 - 04/24/16 12:16 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Zoomie13]  
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 792
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Originally Posted By: Zoomie13
You seem to have WAY too much time on your hands. It's a shame you're not interested in doing something productive with it...


Ah, I have been waiting for your constructive contribution to the hawk....you disappoint me

#4252338 - 04/24/16 12:50 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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I spent $10 on the Hawk, buying it second hand from a guy. So that's all I've got invested in it. It doesn't break my bank to delete it and shrug it off as a bad investment.

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