Dave has some good points.

Looks like a B-2!

I guess most of the changes deal with the avionics and perhaps the stealth coating on the airframe.

I guess it is actually considered a B-2.1, but as B-21 they can spend 10x the money.

I'm at work, can't watch a video right now. Let me guess, he hates it right? Just another internet defense "expert".

Okay, I watch a bit of it. Too much hyperbole and cherry picking of facts to be taken seriously.

The delicious stealth nougat coating.

It's got two engines instead of 4, that's a big change.

Also, the unit cost is supposedly capped, and the production number is set at 100. So the contract says "we're paying X per plane for 100 planes" and now NG has to do that.



The Jedi Master

Sounds sensible. Hopefully this scheme will be the new normal for defense contracts.

I didn't hear anything crazy in the video. We paid $2B for the original, this go around it's a quarter of that, largely because, like cars, it's the last model but tweaked to be better to show both lower cost to build while still improving. Like any product. They added a 5th blade to the 4 blade razor. LOL
At least we bought far fewer at the development cost and now far more at the much lower cost. I'm glad to see we're still in the business of improving our military. Or I assume so, since nothing was said about payload, range, speed, stealth improvements etc.

Of course, the B1 is still cooler.

F35: "but that's the Navy's fault" LOL

Apparently the B-21 is currently being pursued on a "cost plus" contract as usual however:

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense...-hill/81200182/

Well... It's not ugly.

Cost-plus on EMD but fixed on production isn't really fixed cost, is it?

There is zero incentive for a contractor to save money with cost-plus. They can say "no incentive fees" if they fail to meet the goals, but what company can't just make the overruns equal to or greater than the fees they would've received for meeting it? Answer--any company good enough to win a gov't contract can do it.

The bigger problem is the gov't side of the house doesn't care. They have their jobs no matter what the cost is. If they demand the contractor spend $10m to take out a cup holder and put in a reading light, the contractor will do it and cost-plus pass the bill on. The gov't people don't pay it themselves, why would they care?

The ideal would be a total freeze after contract award. The contractor goes off and builds it and then when done the gov't evaluates it and says "pass, we'll buy more" or "fail, we won't buy these." No endless contract change modifications to move a headrest or change a sign.

Still I guess it's better than standard cost-plus contracts.




The Jedi Master

Is there really any technological reason that the current B-2's can't still do the job?

We still have 60 year old B-52's flying.

Or is this is a situation where they claim they just can't keep the maintenance up without ever increasing costs?

Difference is that the B-52 is relegated to missions that at the current time doesn't call for much more than a plane that can haul a lot of bombs. Stealth on the other hand does obviously have to be more cutting edge technology wise.

There's nothing wrong with the B-2 except A) there aren't enough of them and B) it would cost far too much to make more of them. The idea is for the B-21 to be as good or better than the B-2, do basically the same mission, but cost less in time and materials to maintain.
The B-2 is good but keeping it stealthy is a full-time process that keeps the fleet half in hangars any given day.

If we had 100 more B-2s the USAF would go broke trying to maintain them all between the number of extra personnel needed and the costs.

Much as the Virginia sub replaced the Seawolf not because it was better but because it could do the job for a LOT less money, the B-21 is to be the new "volume" bomber that can be used in multiple theaters at a high sortie rate.



The Jedi Master

It is my understanding that the B-21 would not be a replacement for the B-2 but instead a supplement to it.

It would however be a replacement for the B-1 which are all approaching 30+ years old.

But the B-52, I think it will be around at least another 10-20 years. It's tough, reliable and cheap to operate for a heavy bomber.

The B-21 should incorporate everything we have learned about stealth aircraft in the 30 years since the B-2 was designed, it is rumored that it will even possibly be capable of operating either with or without a crew.

On the Boeing site it states : "U.S. Air Force engineering studies suggest that the lifespan of the B-52 could extend beyond 2040".

Which, irrespective of the B-21 is spectacular. That is the albeit naive equivalent of the Sopwith Pup still being operational in circa 2005!



I'm not sure I concur with that, the B-1 has never really had a fair crack, it has developed into a very well rounded and reliable aircraft. I see the airframe very capable of adapting to what is needed.

I think the B-1 is getting more expensive to maintain to the point where it will have to go.

We can't afford FOUR different heavy bomber models in service. The B-2 is the most recent and effective, so it's hanging around. The B-52 is oldest but actually the cheapest to maintain and has a lot of life left due to flying around at high and medium altitude all the time.

That leaves the B-1. It currently has the most stressful job, long loitering low-level missions delivering CAS weapons. It has aging electronics that get ever harder to support. It has swing wings and afterburners and those little canards and everything. Its airframe is the most heavily punished of the active three in regular service. While it COULD continue to be used, the numbers say it is the one that needs replacement.

The B-21, unlike the B-2 which was designed to do the mission the B-52 and B-1A were originally designed to do, is going to be designed to do the missions the B-1B and B-2 currently do. How successful it will be no one can say yet, but the rationale for keeping the 52 and the 2 alongside the 21 while dumping the B-1 is sound.



The Jedi Master