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#4233244 - 02/25/16 02:49 AM Re: Is BOS the new war thunder? [Re: JimBobb]  
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The numbers are out there at collective times..and that's all that's important for having some fun...Besides....here's a look at a fairly new squadron..which started up in November....How about those numbers for a new squad and more are joining all the time.... II/JG53
Like our group...all we currently fly now is BOS....and we've found it very enjoyable and improving all the time. The fact that WT numbers are not here for us...is well not even something we dwell on as long as we can find a server out there, and more and more are opening up...we will make it work for us.

I've never played WT..but I'm sure it's a lot of fun.....

#4233290 - 02/25/16 08:38 AM Re: Is BOS the new war thunder? [Re: JimBobb]  
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Went online tonight at 10pm Eastern. 28 people on line. The rooms with the most people were locked.

I'm not looking for WT numbers but it's not as if BoS/BoM hasn't sold in the thousands. If 1/3rd were on line the numbers/on line experience would be successful, IMO. Every time I look (daytime, evening, night time, middle of the night) it's the same story. It's a rare occasion to see a full room. And even with one full room it's always that all the other rooms contain only a handful of players at most.

777 was successful enough to sell a second game, BoM. Where are all the original players and early adopters of BoM? It makes no sense to not have full rooms based on the sales numbers.

#4233295 - 02/25/16 09:12 AM Re: Is BOS the new war thunder? [Re: JimBobb]  
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No one seems to have learned from the past... If the game had the same ease of functionality and ease of getting online as the previous IL2, with the same online and SP content, it may have had a much bigger impact.

The fact is, they haven't followed the original format, plus they should never have used the IL2 brand name. That was a huge mistake, as many avid followers expected a similar IL2 experience with much improved graphical, plus fm and dm content.

Having said that, the dev's over there 'are' making many improvements to the game on a regular basis, so hats off to them for that.
I'm still a follower, but I only play on occasion, rather than daily, as I used to with the old IL2.
That fact is something maybe the dev's should remember, as the expected migration in large numders of WT players hasn't come to pass, because the new format just hasn't had the desired impact.

I'm sure that as time goes by it will improve further, if it lives that long and continues to generate enough income for the team.

#4233340 - 02/25/16 12:43 PM Re: Is BOS the new war thunder? [Re: JimBobb]  
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It's true the East Coast/North American.. numbers are pretty poor.....and I can't argue with the points you guys are making. I had to jump back into the online squadron niche to make the game work for me. Tactical Air War is starting up now.....and there's FNBF and SNBF that are also taking the game to more historical and mission oriented levels while at the same time, weeding out the "shoot em up" mindset. The guys that run into your plane....or shoot their own people...you know the types.

The fact is...this game gives you the basic package.....and it's the community that has to put the time and energy into making it all work. It's a lot of effort, but it does work when you invest all that time and energy. Hyperlobby...short coop oriented missions...are sorely lacking...

I guess what I'm saying in relation to this thread about WT....the game can work as an immersive historical simulation of sorts, but it does take a lot of effort to make that happen. I'm hopeful that the numbers will pick up when I look at Squads like JG53 and when I interact with all the guys playing in the war servers...everyone of them are having fun and not #%&*$# about the quality...or lack thereof.

#4233349 - 02/25/16 01:11 PM Re: Is BOS the new war thunder? [Re: JimBobb]  
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If the game only works for you if you play online, then what about the SP content, and people who are not interested in playing online???

Yes, PWCG does make an impact in that regard, but many don't want to have to 'fiddle' and alter their game or don't feel they have the know how on how to indulge...
The basics are still not all there, and it seems the powers that be are content to plough on with the current format, and just let the community sort it out for themselves, sadly.

I have PWCG going, I have had some experience with it from RoF, but I feel for those other guys that have walked on by, or are still sitting on the fence because the game has fallen short in their eyes... many of them experienced simmers from the old IL2 days... and that is yet another pool of possible income that is allowed to slip by.

I wonder if the strategy and format they have chosen is now too far embedded and entrenched that the developers can't afford to take that ''step back'' as it would involve an immense amount of work they can not afford to embark on?

#4233398 - 02/25/16 02:49 PM Re: Is BOS the new war thunder? [Re: JimBobb]  
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Valid points....I have to actually play online from my office...as I have satellite connection from my home and no chance for anything better at this point. I can't get into the SP at all...Pat's program helped..but now I'm online and don't have any offline needs..because there's no comparison. The SP, campaign phase still seems somewhat flat. I could have used some real video footage...some more immersive radio banter, better radio/wingman commands. So...I took the plunge back online...and I don't regret it. But it takes some effort on my part.

As far as numbers....personally...I don't see any real game changers at this point. Most of us are pretty savvy as to what this game can and can't do. Any evolution...will come slowly and more than likely not with any SP/campaign feature enhancements to "stop the bleeding" in that area.

Online war based servers I believe will in fact pick up....especially looking forward to the release of BOM. It might not be a large niche at this point, but it does satisfy a lot of us. Just enough to make it work....A Hyperlobby concept would be the solution.....easy personal server made coops...specific missions....with not a lot of downtime invested, would be great for a lot of people.

#4233414 - 02/25/16 03:07 PM Re: Is BOS the new war thunder? [Re: Sokol1]  
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Originally Posted By: Sokol1


confused And War Thunder, World or War Planes, Air Combat (console) - to stay with most know - "fun game" don't appeal to these?

WT is free, easy, mouse fly, lots of Hollywood explosions, etc.

Why they need a "DCS fun game" to fly a couple of times a month?

BoS can't be all "hardcore", but can be "fun game" like these, why are not making success? Are at the best, surviving.



As I've never played any of those three, because they don't appeal to me, I can't say. What I can say is when I look back at the sims I loved 10-20-30 years ago (holy crap, I was flying sims 30 years ago!), there were a lot of concessions made to realism in the way planes flew, systems and cockpits were modeled, etc, but they were still fun games even with those shortcomings.
We would say "I wish it looked photo real!" and "I wish they modeled AAR/system X/weapon Y better", but we kept on playing despite that.

The original F4 release was arguably not all that high fidelity compared to what the later RP/SP/RV/BMS releases provided, but people loved it anyway because of the world that was there.

In other words, it proved relatively easy to hack more realistic systems into a good game that didn't have them. It's proven nearly impossible to hack a good game into a realistic sim that isn't one.




The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4233728 - 02/26/16 10:51 AM Re: Is BOS the new war thunder? [Re: JimBobb]  
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Great point, Jedi.

The game, not the graphics, is what keeps me playing a game. I look for a great game, and take the best graphics I can get. I don't look for great graphics, and take the best game I can get. I played War Thunder for 2 or 3 days, said "meh" and never played it again.

IL-2 1946 is still my staple for WW2 single player, and for something new to do I bought "B17 Mighty 8th" after the BoS let down. It still holds my interest while I still can't get myself to start up BoS again (even with the release of PWCG). Mighty 8th is a great game.

Some would say "I'm not buying Mighty 8th, it has dated graphics." I would say "I'm not buying Eye Candy III, it has no game."

PWCG would really do it for me if I didn't have permanent road rash from BoS. But I can see others wanting something integral to BoS.


Dogfighting is what you do "after" you drop your bombs and blow something up!
Can you say "JABO!" thumbsup
#4233729 - 02/26/16 10:58 AM Re: Is BOS the new war thunder? [Re: KodiakJac]  
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Originally Posted By: Bucksnort
Great point, Jedi.
...
IL-2 1946 is still my staple for WW2 single player
...


Same here...


If you're close, get closer.
#4233787 - 02/26/16 02:27 PM Re: Is BOS the new war thunder? [Re: JimBobb]  
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I wish i could go back in time and grab IL-2 and everything around it and bring it "back" here.

Really miss it sometimes.

Fact of life i guess, things changes.

#4233792 - 02/26/16 02:42 PM Re: Is BOS the new war thunder? [Re: JimBobb]  
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Just to be there on Hyperlobby....with scores of guys waiting to hookup and go out on a mission...Super online experience..across the board and with an offline generator that would pump out great missions..in almost any theater. Of course, there wasn't any real console competitor back then....Nothing like the games and online experience you can get now....with the different Cults and Tribes...going at it in scores of great role playing and different games. I mean, that's part of the problem here.....as far as numbers.

#4233847 - 02/26/16 04:01 PM Re: Is BOS the new war thunder? [Re: JimBobb]  
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Great graphics open the door to player interest, but they can't maintain it when every new game more or less has great graphics. Really bad graphics can be an impediment, but a look at the indie scene shows people are playing games with dated even primitive graphics all the time when they're good games.

I tend not to fly old sims anymore for two reasons: first, fatigue. Yeah, Falcon 4 was a great sim, but I've put so much time into it that I get a "been there, done that" feeling as soon as I boot it up. Same with all of those old ones, after so many hundreds of hours it feels too tired to me.
Second, utility. Some of these older sims are such a bear to get working on modern OS/hardware and I have such little free time that I'd rather spend it flying a more recent sim that will work with no fuss.

I still have Il-2-46 on my HD, but I've not touched it in over a year. I fly BoS, ROF, and DCS semiregularly, but even CloD w/ATAG mods is mostly sitting untouched. Ditto SF2/First Eagles 2 and EECH, all of which I have installed. I had CFS3 installed for many years without playing it before an HD failure would've required me to reinstall it and I never bothered.
It just irks me that current developers seem to devote all their energies to the game engine and none to the game mechanics. Replace all the WWI/WWII/modern era aircraft with fictional stuff. Change the theaters to made up places. Instead of flying a Camel over Verdun in 1918, or a 190 over Stalingrad in 1942, what if I'm flying the Batwing over Mordor in 2525? Is it still fun?

If the answer is "no", it's not a good game. It may be a good sim of WWII combat in the Pacific, but if it's a total bore with the historical stuff stripped out that means the developer is relying on the customer's enjoyment of history to provide the fun. That is an automatic market-limiting decision.




The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
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