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#4227044 - 02/09/16 10:00 AM "Black SAM"  
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MK_PL Offline
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I just found it in a glossary added to the Strike Fighters 2: Vietnam Air and Ground Expansion Pack:

"Black SAM: a mysterious type of SAM that suddenly appeared during the summer of 1972 only
to disappear after a few months. These new "Black SAMs" were stouter than the familiar SA-2
Guideline, and were an ominous dark black in color. They also appeared to be resistant to
standard ECM jamming as well as being far more maneuverable than standard SA-2s. U.S. air
crews suspected these new "Black SAMs" to be SA-3 Goas, long rumored to have been supplied
by the Soviet Union to North Vietnam, however, the NSA (National Security Agency)
maintained that they were simply improved SA-2 Guidelines."

Any idea what system could that be?

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4227070 - 02/09/16 12:15 PM Re: "Black SAM" [Re: MK_PL]  
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Easy to answer, as now we knew what systems and missile types were exported to Vietnam...

SA-75A Dvina-A with V-750VK 11DK missile from 1965, V-750VMVK from 1969
S-125 Pechora with V-601 5V27 missile from 1972
S-75M2 Volga with V-755SU 20DSU missile from 1979
S-75M3 Volga with V-759 5Ya23 missile from 1985

... so it could be either the Pechora, or the V-750VMVK missile of the Dvina-A.

Last edited by Hpasp; 02/09/16 12:16 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

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#4227092 - 02/09/16 02:33 PM Re: "Black SAM" [Re: Hpasp]  
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piston79 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp


... so it could be either the Pechora, or the V-750VMVK missile of the Dvina-A.



From "To Hanoi and back":




From "Red SAM: The SA-2 Guideline Anti-Aircraft Missile" . S. Zaloga




So, it could be a Chinese version of SA-2....

#4227124 - 02/09/16 04:50 PM Re: "Black SAM" [Re: MK_PL]  
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Thanks for the prompt answer!

#4227144 - 02/09/16 05:49 PM Re: "Black SAM" [Re: MK_PL]  
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Originally Posted By: MK_PL
Thanks for the prompt answer!


You're welcome, buddy...

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#4227262 - 02/09/16 10:02 PM Re: "Black SAM" [Re: MK_PL]  
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KJakker Offline
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Here are the pages about the "Black SAM" from Pg 172-175 of Palace Cobra by Ed Rasimus. Likely the source of the glossary entry.





#4227364 - 02/10/16 09:29 AM Re: "Black SAM" [Re: MK_PL]  
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Thanks, I also recommend "When Thunder Rolled..."

#4227402 - 02/10/16 12:57 PM Re: "Black SAM" [Re: MK_PL]  
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KJakker Offline
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Thanks, already read it.

#4227605 - 02/10/16 07:19 PM Re: "Black SAM" [Re: MK_PL]  
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Originally Posted By: MK_PL
Thanks, I also recommend "When Thunder Rolled..."


So, could we have a sneak peak about...?

#4227749 - 02/11/16 03:03 AM Re: "Black SAM" [Re: piston79]  
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Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: MK_PL
Thanks, I also recommend "When Thunder Rolled..."


So, could we have a sneak peak about...?


When Thunder Rolled: An F-105 Pilot over North Vietnam by Ed Rasimus

Palace Cobra: A Fighter Pilot in the Vietnam Air War by Ed Rasimus

Last edited by KJakker; 02/11/16 03:08 AM.
#4227786 - 02/11/16 07:48 AM Re: "Black SAM" [Re: KJakker]  
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I believe that "Black SAM" quote in not more than a half page, I would appreciate if you just share the text about this SAM...

#4227909 - 02/11/16 02:37 PM Re: "Black SAM" [Re: MK_PL]  
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KJakker Offline
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piston79, scroll up about five post in this thread. I attached photos of the four reverent pages about the "Black SAM" from Palace Cobra.

#4227959 - 02/11/16 03:54 PM Re: "Black SAM" [Re: KJakker]  
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Originally Posted By: KJakker
piston79, scroll up about five post in this thread. I attached photos of the four reverent pages about the "Black SAM" from Palace Cobra.


I meant from "When Thunder Rolled: An F-105 Pilot over North Vietnam"....

#4228017 - 02/11/16 05:48 PM Re: "Black SAM" [Re: MK_PL]  
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The author of the two book listed, Edward J. Rasimus, Jr. (September 29, 1942January 30, 2013), did two tours of duty during the Vietnam War. His first at Korat Royal Thai AFB, Thailand, as an F-105D pilot with the 421st Tactical Fighter Squadron of the 388th Tactical Fighter Wing was from May to November 1966. His second tour was as an F-4E pilot with the 469th and then the 34th Tactical Fighter Squadrons at Korat Royal Thai AFB from July 1972 to July 1973.

The first book When Thunder Rolled: An F-105 Pilot over North Vietnam is about his 1966 tour during Operation Rolling Thunder. The second book Palace Cobra: A Fighter Pilot in the Vietnam Air War is about his 1972-73 tour and covers Operations Linebacker and Linebacker II.

The "Black SAM" only appeared in the summer of 1972 so the author only mentions it in Palace Cobra the book covering that time period.

#4228304 - 02/12/16 10:55 AM Re: "Black SAM" [Re: MK_PL]  
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By the way, a few years ago I saw a series of documentaries, Wings over Vietnam, now you can watch it on YouTube.
A series of episodes covering some major aspects of the air war in Vietnam, bombing campaigns, rescue operations, etc.

This one is about the Wild Weasels:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDEtHmGcl6Y

Last edited by MK_PL; 02/12/16 10:55 AM.

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