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#4222287 - 01/27/16 09:24 PM Is there any Medical Professionals here who can offer an opinion on ....  
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Hunedog Offline
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Azotemia or as a consequence of Pyelonephrosis, Chronic pyelonephritis.
With that in mind how long or what kind of symptoms would lead to Acute
pulmonary edma resulting in death.

Thanks in advance.


"It's not about the money Son, It's about rules. You see without rules we all might as well live in trees and fling our crap at each other."
Red Foreman on That 70's Show
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#4222290 - 01/27/16 09:35 PM Re: Is there any Medical Professionals here who can offer an opinion on .... [Re: Hunedog]  
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Bump. I can't help you but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

#4222292 - 01/27/16 09:43 PM Re: Is there any Medical Professionals here who can offer an opinion on .... [Re: Hunedog]  
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Try googling that question ?


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#4222295 - 01/27/16 09:56 PM Re: Is there any Medical Professionals here who can offer an opinion on .... [Re: Hunedog]  
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Yes I googled it, I have an opinion.
I just would like and prefer a professional one.


"It's not about the money Son, It's about rules. You see without rules we all might as well live in trees and fling our crap at each other."
Red Foreman on That 70's Show
#4222299 - 01/27/16 10:10 PM Re: Is there any Medical Professionals here who can offer an opinion on .... [Re: Hunedog]  
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meh
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My professional advice is to go to a hospital...

#4222300 - 01/27/16 10:13 PM Re: Is there any Medical Professionals here who can offer an opinion on .... [Re: Hunedog]  
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You'll need the Haemotology forum. It's a few down from the IL-2 one. biggrin

#4222314 - 01/27/16 11:09 PM Re: Is there any Medical Professionals here who can offer an opinion on .... [Re: Hunedog]  
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Hunedog Offline
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FYI for all who comment and joke.
My mother died when I was seven years
old. My father told someone very close
to the family she died form a brain aneurysm.

So fast forward 48 years later I look up my
mother's death certificate signed by my father,
to see what I should be talking to a doctor about.

There it is in black and white, kidney infection complete
with a 11 day inquiry as to how this happened.
Cause of death by a pulmonary edma. From what I understand
she died a horrible PREVENTABLE DEATH.

Needless to say I'm confused hurt and angry at this present time.


"It's not about the money Son, It's about rules. You see without rules we all might as well live in trees and fling our crap at each other."
Red Foreman on That 70's Show
#4222317 - 01/27/16 11:13 PM Re: Is there any Medical Professionals here who can offer an opinion on .... [Re: Hunedog]  
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All sorts of secrets in families. Good luck.

#4222318 - 01/27/16 11:16 PM Re: Is there any Medical Professionals here who can offer an opinion on .... [Re: Hunedog]  
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I am not making fun of you or insulting you, Hunedog.

If you think something is wrong, go see a doctor.

I also see that you are in Vancouver BC Canada.

Don't you have national health care there? You can go see a doctor even if you don't have the money and you don't have to worry about paying unlike here in the USA, some people are sick or need to see a doctor but can't because they can't afford it.

I apologize for some of the members here who are not very compassionate and are heartless.

#4222320 - 01/27/16 11:25 PM Re: Is there any Medical Professionals here who can offer an opinion on .... [Re: CG2015]  
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Originally Posted By: CG2015
I am not making fun of you or insulting you, Hunedog.

If you think something is wrong, go see a doctor.

I also see that you are in Vancouver BC Canada.

Don't you have national health care there? You can go see a doctor even if you don't have the money and you don't have to worry about paying unlike here in the USA, some people are sick or need to see a doctor but can't because they can't afford it.

I apologize for some of the members here who are not very compassionate and are heartless.


Have you not heard of Obamacare or Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act? Geez man, pay attention.

#4222324 - 01/27/16 11:39 PM Re: Is there any Medical Professionals here who can offer an opinion on .... [Re: Hunedog]  
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meh
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Originally Posted By: Hunedog
FYI for all who comment and joke.
My mother died when I was seven years
old. My father told someone very close
to the family she died form a brain aneurysm.

So fast forward 48 years later I look up my
mother's death certificate signed by my father,
to see what I should be talking to a doctor about.

There it is in black and white, kidney infection complete
with a 11 day inquiry as to how this happened.
Cause of death by a pulmonary edma. From what I understand
she died a horrible PREVENTABLE DEATH.

Needless to say I'm confused hurt and angry at this present time.


was not trying to make a joke, thought this was one of those "I think I have this what should I do" posts and if so you should go to a doctor!

#4222326 - 01/27/16 11:45 PM Re: Is there any Medical Professionals here who can offer an opinion on .... [Re: Hunedog]  
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- Ice Offline
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Very sorry to hear about your loss and that it is related to you asking this question now. However, I don't think anyone in this forum, even medical professionals, can give you a good answer with just that information you have given. Would it not be possible to speak to your father or a medical professional who can look over her notes? A does not always lead to B which results in C after X amount of time.

While something may be preventable, that doesn't mean it always is. While something may be preventable now, I doubt if it were the case 48 years ago.

Good luck!


- Ice
#4222340 - 01/28/16 12:21 AM Re: Is there any Medical Professionals here who can offer an opinion on .... [Re: Hunedog]  
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Hunedog Offline
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My father doesn't want to remember as he was the one
to cover it up up the 1st place.

If he loved her just a little bit she might have
survived that episode. This is not a sudden conclusion
trust me.

An ambulance was called, 10 minutes later she arrived DOA.

As a husband and father he just plain let us down period.


"It's not about the money Son, It's about rules. You see without rules we all might as well live in trees and fling our crap at each other."
Red Foreman on That 70's Show
#4222352 - 01/28/16 01:33 AM Re: Is there any Medical Professionals here who can offer an opinion on .... [Re: Hunedog]  
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Not trying to defend your dad at all, but he must have his reasons. Maybe that was his way of coping. Seems like you both have a lot of talking and healing to do.

Let's just say that there are many, many things that can lead to pulmonary edema and anything said here would be nothing but wild speculation without referencing your mother's medical records. Also, there is a reason that this is treated as a medical emergency and depending on symptoms, can be a priority case for ICU admission. Think "put to sleep with a tube down your throat and into your lungs and get the consultant here right-fkin'-now! and he is the one that handles your case as they decide what's the best type and method of pumping drugs into you to deal with it." Anybody trained even for just first aid is taught the "ABCs" and they are called that because they are the first things you do -- check Airway, Breathing, Circulation. Pulmonary edema can basically mess with all three.


- Ice
#4222386 - 01/28/16 03:48 AM Re: Is there any Medical Professionals here who can offer an opinion on .... [Re: Hunedog]  
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First off, don't believe death certs. My dad had pneumonia when he was 4 years old. His chest collapsed. Throughout his life his heart and lungs formed around the sunken cavity of his chest. You could put your fist up to your wrist in the sunken area of his chest. Age 64 after his whole life with bronchitis, he died. His d.c. says "Cardiac Arrest"

Six months later my mom gets cancer. Age 54, Has the tumor removed. Chemo. She had diabetes which they didn't monitor very well. So she dies. Officially, cause of death says "Cardiac Arrest".


Sorry about your loss, But without your moms full medical records it's only guessing. Infected Kidneys do weird #%&*$# sometimes like building up fluid around the heart and lungs or generating blood clots to the lungs, heart, and brain.

I'm going through kidney diagnosis currently trying to determine how much damage I have due to muscle relaxers prescribed to reduce back pain.

Like I said it would only be a guess what happened to your mom, AND how it was explained to your dad. They many have explained it wrong. You make it sound like he pushed her down the stairs. See how things can get misinterpreted.

#4222449 - 01/28/16 09:29 AM Re: Is there any Medical Professionals here who can offer an opinion on .... [Re: Hunedog]  
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I have been a Critical Care Nurse for 18 years. Hopefully this can help you some with this. I have seen a lot, and I mean a lot of what are called Urosepsis cases.

Pyelonephritis, or kidney infection for those that don't know what Pyelo is, is a serious problem.

The most common infections in women are Urinary Tract Infections. Ninety percent of these infections are caused by a common bacteria called E. Coli. It is a normal bacteria in the GI tract. As long as it stays there it generally isn't a problem but sometimes it can make its way to the urethra. There are reasons for that but women are at a much higher risk of developing a UTI than men are because of simple anatomy. Most women with Urinary Tract infections get it treated with simple antibiotics, maybe some cranberry juice to acidify the urine (debatable if this helps but it doesn't hurt), and increased fluids to flush out the kidneys.

The danger begins if the UTI is ignored and spreads to the Kidneys. This is what Pyelonephritis is, an infection of the kidneys. Pyelonephritis, if left untreated, can lead to a systemic infection known as Septicemia (or Urosepsis in the case of a Urinary source). This sepsis, which involves bacteria entering the bloodstream can lead to profound decreases in blood pressure, heart failure and death.

I am not sure about that diagnosis. Acute Pulmonary Edema (we call if flash pulmonary edema) can occur in cases of septicemia but most of the time the lung condition develops over time and is called ARDS or Adult Respiratory Distress Syndrome. This sounds like it happened very quickly. You can have flash pulmonary edema but that usually is the result of a massive decrease in heart function. I don't know how old your mom was when she died but if she was healthy it is less common. Then again, if she had an undiagnosed heart problem (common in the 70s) then this could have occurred without anyone realizing it. Essentially the left side of the heart isn't working and fluid backs up into the lungs. I have seen this happen quickly and with no warning. I won't go into the symptoms but they are frightening.

Without seeing anything I wonder if they put Pulmonary Edema when instead it should have said Pulmonary Embolus. These are different things. A Pulmonary Embolus (or PE) can occur when a blood clot develops in the body, usually in one of the larger veins in the leg. A DVT is dangerous when part of the clot breaks off and heads toward the heart. Since the right side of the heart takes blood from the veins and sends it to the lungs any blood clot that is 'thrown' will end up going to one of the Pulmonary Arteries. Depending on the size and where this clot lodges the patient can have problems ranging from chest pain and shortness of breath to complete circulatory collapse and death in a few minutes. Often there is no warning signs of this.

If your mom was sick she is at greater risk of developing a PE. Sick people don't move much and the infection creates what we call a hypercoagulable state that makes an increase in blood clot formation more likely.

In all honesty I am pretty much just making educated guesses here. The mid 70s are not nearly the same at the 2010s medically. Much of what you saw on the TV show Emergency was standard practice back then. Most of what they do has been updated highly or just eliminated. There was a lot more guesswork in the 70s than today. Patients back then would die that would easily survive today.

Either way I wouldn't be too rough on your dad. If this is something that occurred 10 minutes after an ambulance arrived I am willing to bet this was a sudden event. Either she had a case of flash pulmonary edema or a Pulmonary Embolus and often times a have seen patients be completely stable and all of a sudden go into these things. If you are fortunate to be in a hospital ER this can be treated but an EMT in the 70s would have had much less to work with. She could have been sick and compensating for a long time and your dad may not have realized how sick she truly was. She may not have guessed. One thing about Septicemia is that people tend to compensate for a while and then just 'fall off a cliff'.


The artist formerly known as SimHq Tom Cofield
#4222453 - 01/28/16 09:56 AM Re: Is there any Medical Professionals here who can offer an opinion on .... [Re: Hunedog]  
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I initially thought he said EMBOLISM and had to re-read the posts a few times to confirm he said EDEMA. Maybe someone wrote "P.E." and whoever interpreted it wrote edema instead of embolism? How "aware" was the medical field about the dangers of pulmonary embolism 50 years ago? While we know NOW which bits are preventable deaths, did they know it was "preventable" back then? Did they even know how to react to such cases in those days? Did they know what to do/not to do to prevent/minimize risks?

So again, hard to tell without access to the medical records to prove/disprove the death certificate. Sure, what Tom/Wklink posted is correct but this is the known or common "path" of pulmonary embolism, but how many times have we been thrown a wild curve ball in this field?


- Ice
#4222583 - 01/28/16 04:52 PM Re: Is there any Medical Professionals here who can offer an opinion on .... [Re: Hunedog]  
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Thank you Wlink that's basically the info I was looking for.

Thank you Ice for taking the time to read and answer.

My mother was 35 years old when she passed. My theory
is this.

First of all she was a small woman only going over the 100 lb mark
when she was pregnant, Which she was 5 times from late 1954 to
Dec 30 1961. Five boys, second one July 1956 stillborn. She was
pregnant for the 6th time fall 65 to spring 66 and another still
born. She died almost a year to the day later.

When you have a sex addict for husband who also happens to be a
sociopathic bully, add the above facts and basically a recipe for
disaster.

There are a lot of facts that back up the my conclusions that I have
gathered over the years that would take way too long to explain.

Let's just say this story just might become a book, A movie or a
comedy tour, or possibly all three.
With the main premise being "You just can't make this crap up."

Thanks to all for your input.


"It's not about the money Son, It's about rules. You see without rules we all might as well live in trees and fling our crap at each other."
Red Foreman on That 70's Show
#4222646 - 01/28/16 08:17 PM Re: Is there any Medical Professionals here who can offer an opinion on .... [Re: Hunedog]  
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Hey Hunedog, sorry to hear all that's gone on. I can understand your drive to get to the truth, but sometimes you might not get satisfactory answers.

If you had lead with the third post instead of the first, you might have cut down on the sassy responses. As Master says, it's kind of traditional on here when people cut fingers off or scorch themselves with flamethrowers wink...

#4222664 - 01/28/16 08:48 PM Re: Is there any Medical Professionals here who can offer an opinion on .... [Re: Hunedog]  
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I get the humour part and even sent out a PM last
night owning that fact. To any one else, don't feel
guilty. It's all good.
It's not about gathering the facts and roasting a man
on a spit. Although.....hmmmmm.... nevermind... now
where was I. smile

Truth be told I am my Father's 24-7 caretaker and he
is a healthy as he has been in ten or more years. How
I got here goes under the "you can't make this crap up"
Category

Later Dates


"It's not about the money Son, It's about rules. You see without rules we all might as well live in trees and fling our crap at each other."
Red Foreman on That 70's Show
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