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#4219292 - 01/20/16 10:42 AM Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon"  
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Dear Gentlemen wave ,

Because I haven't found some similar topic yet, I would like to discuss here the experiences of the operation from the Sz-75M3 (SA-2E) Volkhov point of view.

This operation contains 3 different missions, so let's analyze them separately.


First of all, (because it's the shortest and not really complex), I would like to ask:

-Have anybody succeed with the Habu??? Is it possible to kill him??? smile

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4219998 - 01/21/16 08:29 PM Re: Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon" [Re: P_M_CS]  
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Originally Posted By: P_M_CS

-Have anybody succeed with the Habu??? Is it possible to kill him??? smile


Yes, with a V-760 missile... thumbsup



P.S. That happened in reality:


Last edited by piston79; 01/21/16 08:36 PM.
#4220172 - 01/22/16 12:29 PM Re: Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon" [Re: piston79]  
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Well, you are absolutely right! 😉
It's my fault, to haven't mentioned, to kill the Habu with conventional warhead missiles. Nukes are almight, just not fair. 😉😃

So, after two days, and more than 100 views, it's confirmed me, that nobody could do it, yet.

#4220173 - 01/22/16 12:31 PM Re: Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon" [Re: P_M_CS]  
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Next question:

About the Raid of Tripoli. I think this is less difficult than the attack of Benghazi. With precise timing, it's possible to shoot down more than 4 F-111.

So, how much is your record?? smile2

#4220184 - 01/22/16 12:52 PM Re: Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon" [Re: P_M_CS]  
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Originally Posted By: P_M_CS
Well, you are absolutely right! 😉
It's my fault, to haven't mentioned, to kill the Habu with conventional warhead missiles. Nukes are almight, just not fair. 😉😃

So, after two days, and more than 100 views, it's confirmed me, that nobody could do it, yet.


I managed once in the Vietnam scenario. It worked simply because the jamming glitched out at the start, allowing a good lock and range determination. Lord knows what'd it'd been like IRL with all the other sorts of ECM aside from noise jamming that they used, and of course actual missile avoidance.

Click to reveal..
14:40 19th of December, 1972.
SR-71 bomb damage assessment flight number two.

SA-75M Dvina


+++++++++++++++++
00:00:43, SNR ON AIR


00:03:27, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 58km
Target azimuth: 264
Target elevation: 24
Target altitude: 24,2km
SNR mode: 110km
Missile guidance method: UPR (Half Lead)


00:03:33, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 58km
Target azimuth: 267
Target elevation: 26
Target altitude: 26,4km
SNR mode: 110km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:03:40, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 58km
Target azimuth: 271
Target elevation: 30
Target altitude: 29,6km
SNR mode: 110km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:03:52, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 58km
Target azimuth: 282
Target elevation: 36
Target altitude: 35,4km
SNR mode: 110km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:04:36, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 58km
Target azimuth: 38
Target elevation: 57
Target altitude: 49,7km
SNR mode: 110km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:04:46, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 58km
Target azimuth: 62
Target elevation: 49
Target altitude: 44,7km
SNR mode: 110km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:04:49, Missile exploded on Channel-1
SR-71 Habu killed by SAM. (miss distance: 88m)

00:06:32, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 42km
Target azimuth: 89
Target elevation: 20
Target altitude: 14,6km
SNR mode: 110km
Missile guidance method: K (Half Lead Elevated By Constans)


00:09:07, SNR OFF THE AIR
-----------------


Total, SNR On Air Time: 8min 21sec

#4220285 - 01/22/16 05:21 PM Re: Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon" [Re: P_M_CS]  
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Originally Posted By: P_M_CS
Well, you are absolutely right! 😉


Hi...

There is a problem with fonts here on this forum, you must use only Latin.... sigh

Also I suggest you to check those two topics:

1. First topic for the SAM Sim
2. Main topic


I know it looks boring but it is not...

Also could use search - not quick one, but upper right, true the magnification glass icon (that's the way you could find that I got first "Habu" ever over North Vietnam!)

wink

#4220527 - 01/23/16 09:32 AM Re: Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon" [Re: scrim]  
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Originally Posted By: scrim
Originally Posted By: P_M_CS
Well, you are absolutely right! 😉
It's my fault, to haven't mentioned, to kill the Habu with conventional warhead missiles. Nukes are almight, just not fair. 😉😃

So, after two days, and more than 100 views, it's confirmed me, that nobody could do it, yet.


I managed once in the Vietnam scenario. It worked simply because the jamming glitched out at the start, allowing a good lock and range determination. Lord knows what'd it'd been like IRL with all the other sorts of ECM aside from noise jamming that they used, and of course actual missile avoidance.

Click to reveal..
14:40 19th of December, 1972.
SR-71 bomb damage assessment flight number two.

SA-75M Dvina


+++++++++++++++++
00:00:43, SNR ON AIR


00:03:27, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 58km
Target azimuth: 264
Target elevation: 24
Target altitude: 24,2km
SNR mode: 110km
Missile guidance method: UPR (Half Lead)


00:03:33, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 58km
Target azimuth: 267
Target elevation: 26
Target altitude: 26,4km
SNR mode: 110km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:03:40, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 58km
Target azimuth: 271
Target elevation: 30
Target altitude: 29,6km
SNR mode: 110km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:03:52, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 58km
Target azimuth: 282
Target elevation: 36
Target altitude: 35,4km
SNR mode: 110km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:04:36, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 58km
Target azimuth: 38
Target elevation: 57
Target altitude: 49,7km
SNR mode: 110km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:04:46, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 58km
Target azimuth: 62
Target elevation: 49
Target altitude: 44,7km
SNR mode: 110km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:04:49, Missile exploded on Channel-1
SR-71 Habu killed by SAM. (miss distance: 88m)

00:06:32, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 42km
Target azimuth: 89
Target elevation: 20
Target altitude: 14,6km
SNR mode: 110km
Missile guidance method: K (Half Lead Elevated By Constans)


00:09:07, SNR OFF THE AIR
-----------------


Total, SNR On Air Time: 8min 21sec



Very good job! Which was the battalion you've succeeded with? notworthy

But, I noticed some strange thing: Is it OK, that the Habu just starting a climb when you launched the first missile? And then, at 00:04:36, Target altitude: 49,7km??

#4220530 - 01/23/16 09:59 AM Re: Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon" [Re: piston79]  
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Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: P_M_CS
Well, you are absolutely right! 😉


Hi...

There is a problem with fonts here on this forum, you must use only Latin.... sigh

Also I suggest you to check those two topics:

1. First topic for the SAM Sim
2. Main topic


I know it looks boring but it is not...

Also could use search - not quick one, but upper right, true the magnification glass icon (that's the way you could find that I got first "Habu" ever over North Vietnam!)

wink



Thank you for the caution! smile2 I've alredy read most of the interestic topics of the forum, but not all of them.

Maybe my questions of the Habu was confusing. Yes, I've known more guys shoot down the SR-71 over Vietnam. It' also very difficult, but possible. If we choose the right battalion, the Habu fly through the whole engagement zone. However, in Libya the Blackbird avoide the missiles maximum range, just a few kilometers. (And also the jamming method is different. )

So, what about the F-111 scores at Tripoli? smile2

#4220540 - 01/23/16 10:45 AM Re: Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon" [Re: P_M_CS]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,813
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Originally Posted By: P_M_CS


Maybe my questions of the Habu was confusing. Yes, I've known more guys shoot down the SR-71 over Vietnam. It' also very difficult, but possible. If we choose the right battalion, the Habu fly through the whole engagement zone. However, in Libya the Blackbird avoide the missiles maximum range, just a few kilometers. (And also the jamming method is different. )

So, what about the F-111 scores at Tripoli? smile2


You cannot kill something out of killing zone..

About Lybia - the best I've seen is Milo's achievements...

#4220747 - 01/23/16 11:50 PM Re: Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon" [Re: P_M_CS]  
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,180
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Originally Posted By: P_M_CS
Originally Posted By: scrim
Originally Posted By: P_M_CS
Well, you are absolutely right! 😉
It's my fault, to haven't mentioned, to kill the Habu with conventional warhead missiles. Nukes are almight, just not fair. 😉😃

So, after two days, and more than 100 views, it's confirmed me, that nobody could do it, yet.


I managed once in the Vietnam scenario. It worked simply because the jamming glitched out at the start, allowing a good lock and range determination. Lord knows what'd it'd been like IRL with all the other sorts of ECM aside from noise jamming that they used, and of course actual missile avoidance.

Click to reveal..
14:40 19th of December, 1972.
SR-71 bomb damage assessment flight number two.

SA-75M Dvina


+++++++++++++++++
00:00:43, SNR ON AIR


00:03:27, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 58km
Target azimuth: 264
Target elevation: 24
Target altitude: 24,2km
SNR mode: 110km
Missile guidance method: UPR (Half Lead)


00:03:33, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 58km
Target azimuth: 267
Target elevation: 26
Target altitude: 26,4km
SNR mode: 110km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:03:40, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 58km
Target azimuth: 271
Target elevation: 30
Target altitude: 29,6km
SNR mode: 110km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:03:52, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 58km
Target azimuth: 282
Target elevation: 36
Target altitude: 35,4km
SNR mode: 110km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:04:36, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 58km
Target azimuth: 38
Target elevation: 57
Target altitude: 49,7km
SNR mode: 110km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:04:46, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 58km
Target azimuth: 62
Target elevation: 49
Target altitude: 44,7km
SNR mode: 110km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:04:49, Missile exploded on Channel-1
SR-71 Habu killed by SAM. (miss distance: 88m)

00:06:32, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 42km
Target azimuth: 89
Target elevation: 20
Target altitude: 14,6km
SNR mode: 110km
Missile guidance method: K (Half Lead Elevated By Constans)


00:09:07, SNR OFF THE AIR
-----------------


Total, SNR On Air Time: 8min 21sec



Very good job! Which was the battalion you've succeeded with? notworthy

But, I noticed some strange thing: Is it OK, that the Habu just starting a climb when you launched the first missile? And then, at 00:04:36, Target altitude: 49,7km??


Oh, it was really nothing. The noise jamming didn't come on until after I fired, otherwise I'd never have known when it was in range. Can't remember which unit it was unfortunately.

There was some confusion about the target altitude last time as well until I understood what'd happened; Normally the noise jamming is on from the start, but this time it started very late, so as it came closer the range gate stayed where it was when the jamming started. As the slant range decreased, the range gate got pushed waaay up into the sky, making the SAM think it fired on something way higher up than it did.

#4220855 - 01/24/16 07:52 AM Re: Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon" [Re: scrim]  
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Posts: 1,813
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Originally Posted By: scrim


Oh, it was really nothing. The noise jamming didn't come on until after I fired, otherwise I'd never have known when it was in range. Can't remember which unit it was unfortunately.

There was some confusion about the target altitude last time as well until I understood what'd happened; Normally the noise jamming is on from the start, but this time it started very late, so as it came closer the range gate stayed where it was when the jamming started. As the slant range decreased, the range gate got pushed waaay up into the sky, making the SAM think it fired on something way higher up than it did.


SR-71 jammer is activated by RPK signals (i.e. by launching a missile or by switching on High PRF mode, or by switching RPK switch)...









More info - Slede Share!


Last edited by piston79; 01/24/16 08:36 AM.
#4220941 - 01/24/16 03:14 PM Re: Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon" [Re: scrim]  
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Originally Posted By: scrim
Originally Posted By: P_M_CS
Originally Posted By: scrim
Originally Posted By: P_M_CS
Well, you are absolutely right! 😉
It's my fault, to haven't mentioned, to kill the Habu with conventional warhead missiles. Nukes are almight, just not fair. 😉😃

So, after two days, and more than 100 views, it's confirmed me, that nobody could do it, yet.


I managed once in the Vietnam scenario. It worked simply because the jamming glitched out at the start, allowing a good lock and range determination. Lord knows what'd it'd been like IRL with all the other sorts of ECM aside from noise jamming that they used, and of course actual missile avoidance.

Click to reveal..
14:40 19th of December, 1972.
SR-71 bomb damage assessment flight number two.

SA-75M Dvina


+++++++++++++++++
00:00:43, SNR ON AIR


00:03:27, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 58km
Target azimuth: 264
Target elevation: 24
Target altitude: 24,2km
SNR mode: 110km
Missile guidance method: UPR (Half Lead)


00:03:33, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 58km
Target azimuth: 267
Target elevation: 26
Target altitude: 26,4km
SNR mode: 110km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:03:40, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 58km
Target azimuth: 271
Target elevation: 30
Target altitude: 29,6km
SNR mode: 110km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:03:52, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 58km
Target azimuth: 282
Target elevation: 36
Target altitude: 35,4km
SNR mode: 110km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:04:36, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 58km
Target azimuth: 38
Target elevation: 57
Target altitude: 49,7km
SNR mode: 110km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:04:46, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 58km
Target azimuth: 62
Target elevation: 49
Target altitude: 44,7km
SNR mode: 110km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:04:49, Missile exploded on Channel-1
SR-71 Habu killed by SAM. (miss distance: 88m)

00:06:32, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 42km
Target azimuth: 89
Target elevation: 20
Target altitude: 14,6km
SNR mode: 110km
Missile guidance method: K (Half Lead Elevated By Constans)


00:09:07, SNR OFF THE AIR
-----------------


Total, SNR On Air Time: 8min 21sec



Very good job! Which was the battalion you've succeeded with? notworthy

But, I noticed some strange thing: Is it OK, that the Habu just starting a climb when you launched the first missile? And then, at 00:04:36, Target altitude: 49,7km??


Oh, it was really nothing. The noise jamming didn't come on until after I fired, otherwise I'd never have known when it was in range. Can't remember which unit it was unfortunately.

There was some confusion about the target altitude last time as well until I understood what'd happened; Normally the noise jamming is on from the start, but this time it started very late, so as it came closer the range gate stayed where it was when the jamming started. As the slant range decreased, the range gate got pushed waaay up into the sky, making the SAM think it fired on something way higher up than it did.



Hm....little bit strange behavior of the Habu. I mean the delayed jamming. Maybe Hpasp could answer if it was normal or not. Nevertheless, you managed to shoot down the tartget.
transformer

#4220950 - 01/24/16 03:53 PM Re: Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon" [Re: piston79]  
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Good documents! Am I right, only the Big Blast system's capability (noise jamming) is simulated in SAM Sim?
What does it mean in practise "switching on High PRF mode"? Can we do it in the simulator?



"SR-71 jammer is activated by RPK signals"- I think it's correct only for the Linebacker missions, in El Dorado Canyon, Habu is jamming continuously from the start.

#4220961 - 01/24/16 04:31 PM Re: Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon" [Re: P_M_CS]  
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Originally Posted By: P_M_CS
Good documents! Am I right, only the Big Blast system's capability (noise jamming) is simulated in SAM Sim?
What does it mean in practise "switching on High PRF mode"? Can we do it in the simulator?




Low PRF is 110/150 km mode, High PRF - 75/55 km. (that was already discussed, please use search options)



Quote:

"SR-71 jammer is activated by RPK signals"- I think it's correct only for the Linebacker missions, in El Dorado Canyon, Habu is jamming continuously from the start.


Here Hpasp should answer... The jammer work was explained in the CIA doc, but those should be about A-12 EW suite... Not sure about what kind of EW they had in the 80-s...

P.S. There it is how jammers worked in some OXCART missions:

http://www.foia.cia.gov/sites/default/files/document_conversions/89801/DOC_0001473841.pdf

Last edited by piston79; 01/24/16 04:56 PM.
#4220997 - 01/24/16 06:58 PM Re: Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon" [Re: piston79]  
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Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: P_M_CS


Maybe my questions of the Habu was confusing. Yes, I've known more guys shoot down the SR-71 over Vietnam. It' also very difficult, but possible. If we choose the right battalion, the Habu fly through the whole engagement zone. However, in Libya the Blackbird avoide the missiles maximum range, just a few kilometers. (And also the jamming method is different. )

So, what about the F-111 scores at Tripoli? smile2


You cannot kill something out of killing zone..

About Lybia - the best I've seen is Milo's achievements...



After some attempts, I think this is my best, until now. I made it with the 1/4. battalion.

2:00am 15th of April, 1986.
Operation El-Dorado Canyon raid against Tripoli.

Targets:
Bab al-Aziziyah barracks - 6 F-111F Aardvark, each armed with 4 GBU-10 LGB
Murat Sidi Bilal Naval base - 3 F-111F Aardvark, each armed with 4 GBU-10 LGB
Tripoli AFB - 5 F-111F Aardvark, each armed with 12 Mk.82/BSU-49 high-drag bombs

Supporting force:
6 A-7E Corsair-II SEAD (VA-46 Clansmen, VA-72 Blue Hawks from the CV-66 USS America)
4 F-14A Tomcat CAP (VF-33 Starfighters, VF-102 Diamondbacks from the CV-66 USS America)
3 EF-111A Raven ECM
1 EA-6B Prowler ECM (VMAQ-2 Playboys from the CV-43 USS America)

S-75M3 Volkhov


+++++++++++++++++
00:00:19, SNR ON AIR

00:00:36, F-111F Remit-31 bombed Bab al-Aziziyah barracks, with 4 GBU-10 LGB.

00:00:37, A-7E Corsair-II No.1, VA-46 Clansmen launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 1


00:00:43, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 14km
Target azimuth: 302
Target elevation: 3
Target altitude: 831m
SNR mode: LORO - 150km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:00:50, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 13km
Target azimuth: 308
Target elevation: 3
Target altitude: 861m
SNR mode: LORO - 35km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:01:08, Missile exploded on Channel-1
F-111F Remit-31 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 38m)

00:01:13, SNR OFF THE AIR
-----------------

00:01:43, F-111F Remit-33 bombed Bab al-Aziziyah barracks, with 4 GBU-10 LGB.

+++++++++++++++++
00:03:16, SNR ON AIR


00:03:25, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 33km
Target azimuth: 289
Target elevation: 1
Target altitude: 839m
SNR mode: LORO - 35km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:03:32, A-7E Corsair-II No.2, VA-46 Clansmen launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 1

00:03:55, F-111F Karma-51bombed the French Embassy, with 4 GBU-10 LGB..

00:04:01, Missile exploded on Channel-3
F-111F Karma-52 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 5m)

00:04:03, SNR OFF THE AIR
-----------------


+++++++++++++++++
00:05:25, SNR ON AIR


00:05:32, SNR OFF THE AIR
-----------------

00:05:36, F-111F Jewel-61 bombed Murat Sidi Bilal Naval base, with 4 GBU-10 LGB.

+++++++++++++++++
00:05:47, SNR ON AIR


00:05:52, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 19km
Target azimuth: 181
Target elevation: 0
Target altitude: 121m
SNR mode: LORO - 35km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:06:04, A-7E Corsair-II No.2, VA-72 Blue Hawks launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 1

00:06:08, F-111F Jewel-62 bombed Murat Sidi Bilal Naval base, with 4 GBU-10 LGB.

00:06:17, Missile exploded on Channel-1
F-111F Puffy-11 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 105m)

00:06:19, SNR OFF THE AIR
-----------------

00:06:41, F-111F Jewel-63 bombed Murat Sidi Bilal Naval base, with 4 GBU-10 LGB.

+++++++++++++++++
00:07:20, SNR ON AIR


00:07:27, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 20km
Target azimuth: 182
Target elevation: 0
Target altitude: 153m
SNR mode: LORO - 150km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:07:38, A-7E Corsair-II No.3, VA-72 Blue Hawks launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 1


00:07:53, Missile exploded on Channel-2
F-111F Lujac-22 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 116m)
00:07:53, F-111F Lujac-24 bombed Tripoli AFB, with 12 Mk.82/BSU-49 high-drag bombs.

00:08:01, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 19km
Target azimuth: 181
Target elevation: 0
Target altitude: 151m
SNR mode: LORO - 35km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:08:26, Missile exploded on Channel-3
F-111F Lujac-23 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 90m)

00:08:28, SNR OFF THE AIR
-----------------


Total, SNR On Air Time: 3min 17sec

#4220999 - 01/24/16 07:01 PM Re: Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon" [Re: P_M_CS]  
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Yes, my experience is that they've always been jamming from the start in all scenarios. I think it's worth keeping in mind that the only ECM simulated in SAM sim is noise jamming, so we're missing out on a load of other far more advanced ECM means that the SR-71 employed.

#4221006 - 01/24/16 07:33 PM Re: Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon" [Re: P_M_CS]  
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I really don't understand why you're using T/T mode, and completely ignoring ">5 km" mode...

screwy

#4221014 - 01/24/16 07:57 PM Re: Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon" [Re: piston79]  
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Originally Posted By: piston79
I really don't understand why you're using T/T mode, and completely ignoring ">5 km" mode...

screwy


Because, it's works better in this situation. Now, I just scored 3 kills and 2 hits.

(And I thought previously to switch LORO with every missile launch helps against SEAD planes. But in this mission, everything depends on timing, fortunatelly the A-7Es far away, so HARMs need a lot of time to reach the battalion.)

2:00am 15th of April, 1986.
Operation El-Dorado Canyon raid against Tripoli.

Targets:
Bab al-Aziziyah barracks - 6 F-111F Aardvark, each armed with 4 GBU-10 LGB
Murat Sidi Bilal Naval base - 3 F-111F Aardvark, each armed with 4 GBU-10 LGB
Tripoli AFB - 5 F-111F Aardvark, each armed with 12 Mk.82/BSU-49 high-drag bombs

Supporting force:
6 A-7E Corsair-II SEAD (VA-46 Clansmen, VA-72 Blue Hawks from the CV-66 USS America)
4 F-14A Tomcat CAP (VF-33 Starfighters, VF-102 Diamondbacks from the CV-66 USS America)
3 EF-111A Raven ECM
1 EA-6B Prowler ECM (VMAQ-2 Playboys from the CV-43 USS America)

S-75M3 Volkhov


+++++++++++++++++
00:00:27, SNR ON AIR

00:00:36, F-111F Remit-31 bombed Bab al-Aziziyah barracks, with 4 GBU-10 LGB.

00:00:45, A-7E Corsair-II No.1, VA-46 Clansmen launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 1


00:00:46, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 13km
Target azimuth: 305
Target elevation: 3
Target altitude: 853m
SNR mode: Wide Beam H<5 - 150km
Missile guidance method: K (Half Lead Elevated By Constans)


00:01:11, Missile exploded on Channel-1
F-111F Remit-31 hit by SAM. (miss distance: 141m)

00:01:18, SNR OFF THE AIR
-----------------

00:01:43, F-111F Remit-33 bombed Bab al-Aziziyah barracks, with 4 GBU-10 LGB.

+++++++++++++++++
00:03:14, SNR ON AIR


00:03:26, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 33km
Target azimuth: 289
Target elevation: 1
Target altitude: 839m
SNR mode: Wide Beam H<5 - 35km
Missile guidance method: K (Half Lead Elevated By Constans)


00:03:31, A-7E Corsair-II No.2, VA-46 Clansmen launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 1

00:03:55, F-111F Karma-51bombed the French Embassy, with 4 GBU-10 LGB..

00:04:02, Missile exploded on Channel-2
F-111F Karma-52 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 3m)

00:04:04, SNR OFF THE AIR
-----------------

00:05:36, F-111F Jewel-61 bombed Murat Sidi Bilal Naval base, with 4 GBU-10 LGB.

+++++++++++++++++
00:05:42, SNR ON AIR


00:05:50, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 19km
Target azimuth: 182
Target elevation: 0
Target altitude: 153m
SNR mode: Wide Beam H<5 - 35km
Missile guidance method: K (Half Lead Elevated By Constans)


00:06:00, A-7E Corsair-II No.2, VA-72 Blue Hawks launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 1

00:06:08, F-111F Jewel-62 bombed Murat Sidi Bilal Naval base, with 4 GBU-10 LGB.

00:06:15, Missile exploded on Channel-3
F-111F Puffy-11 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 15m)

00:06:18, SNR OFF THE AIR
-----------------

00:06:41, F-111F Jewel-63 bombed Murat Sidi Bilal Naval base, with 4 GBU-10 LGB.

+++++++++++++++++
00:07:46, SNR ON AIR

00:07:53, F-111F Lujac-24 bombed Tripoli AFB, with 12 Mk.82/BSU-49 high-drag bombs.

00:08:02, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 13km
Target azimuth: 153
Target elevation: 0
Target altitude: 131m
SNR mode: Wide Beam H<5 - 35km
Missile guidance method: K (Half Lead Elevated By Constans)


00:08:03, A-7E Corsair-II No.3, VA-72 Blue Hawks launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 1


00:08:23, Missile exploded on Channel-1
F-111F Lujac-22 hit by SAM. (miss distance: 136m)

00:08:35, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 13km
Target azimuth: 152
Target elevation: 0
Target altitude: 131m
SNR mode: Wide Beam H<5 - 35km
Missile guidance method: K (Half Lead Elevated By Constans)


00:08:56, Missile exploded on Channel-2
F-111F Lujac-23 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 120m)

00:08:59, SNR OFF THE AIR
-----------------


Total, SNR On Air Time: 3min 20sec
winkngrin

#4221035 - 01/24/16 08:39 PM Re: Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon" [Re: P_M_CS]  
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What kind of fuse settings you used?..

#4221043 - 01/24/16 08:51 PM Re: Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon" [Re: piston79]  
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Originally Posted By: piston79
What kind of fuse settings you used?..


I'm using the standard, maybe switch to "&#1059;&#1057;&#1059; &#1053;&#1051;&#1062;" could solve the problem. I will try it.

#4221047 - 01/24/16 08:53 PM Re: Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon" [Re: P_M_CS]  
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Oh, sorry... I just paste some Russian.
So, I will try the 100m sensitivity mode.

#4221048 - 01/24/16 08:53 PM Re: Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon" [Re: P_M_CS]  
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Originally Posted By: P_M_CS
Originally Posted By: piston79
What kind of fuse settings you used?..


I'm using the standard, maybe switch to "&#1059;&#1057;&#1059; &#1053;&#1051;&#1062;" could solve the problem. I will try it.



stop using non-latin fonts...

#4224062 - 02/01/16 03:05 PM Re: Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon" [Re: P_M_CS]  
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So, after we talked over the "SR-71 mission" and "Raid against Tripoli", start discuss the remarks of the hardest... the "Raid against Benghazi".


It is clear from the historical documents, that Benghazi had less SAM battalions as Tripoli but the opponents sent much more SEAD planes against them (10 F/A-18As and 2 A-7Es opposite 6 A-7Es). Therefore Benghazi's air defense suffered very heavy losses during the attack...

I've tried this mission with the Volhov so many times, and I've found some strange things, maybe theese are Bugs:

- In the manual (Operation El-Dorado Canyon_English.pdf) Hpasp wrote, the SEAD forces against Benghazi: 2X A-7E (one with 4 HARM, the other with 4 Shrike) and 8X F/A-18A (each with 2 HARM)

But, I've run several tests to provoke SEADs launch all of ARMs and to my surprise I got 40 hits of HARM!! In the after action report and the AAR, it's revealed that all SEAD planes have 4 HARMs...


Nevertheless it's the minor problem. The SEAD aircraft behaviour and flight path is the most wierd. I have some AAR, so I could share it. But first, I would like answer for the HARM's problem.

#4226062 - 02/06/16 06:07 PM Re: Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon" [Re: P_M_CS]  
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Continuing the previously mentioned problem, I made some screenshoots from the AARs (the 40 HARMs test) and correlated with the after action report.

Analysing more mission's AAR, I noticed that the SNR transmission or the RPK, attracts SEAD planes as magnet. When they recieve these signals, divert from original flight path and heading towards to SNR. But, when SNR (and RPK) going OFF, they break away, usually with a sharp 360 degree turn and continue their mission. In this test I've switched ON the SNR only for 5-6 seconds, than wait some 20 seconds. And this is the result:

But, the problem is, if they receiving SNR transmission or RPK continuously, they flying directly to the SNR and almost stucked over it!
Here is some examples:




When I zoomed in the Google Earth and select only one SEAD plane's track, I've noticed, they made a very strange flight path over the battalion. Opening the tracking points it's shows me wierd flight data, like speed, heading changes in 1 or 2 seconds.
Here is, some more examples. I think, no aircraft in the World could fly like this. The highlited datas the most important:





And this turn is seems to be normal, but I think the lowest speed is well below the Hornet's stall speed.



So, the question is: is there a hidden BUG in the program, or it's a joke of the Google Eart, or what??

#4226064 - 02/06/16 06:17 PM Re: Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon" [Re: P_M_CS]  
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Oh, sorry, I forget the HARM shoots. These are also very strange...

00:06:54, F/A-18A Hornet No.4, VMFA-323 Death Rattlers launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 1


00:06:57, SNR knocked out by HARM





00:14:51, F/A-18A Hornet No.4, VMFA-323 Death Rattlers launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 2
00:14:54, SNR knocked out by HARM



I've made more screenshoots, but I think it's enough to show the problem. I hope Mr. Hpasp could answer it.
Anyway, I would be very pleased, if anybody who have enought time, made some tests similar to mine and help to investigate this problems.

#4231227 - 02/19/16 07:47 PM Re: Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon" [Re: P_M_CS]  
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Ok, you got me smile

I had lot of discussion with a real Wild Weasel pilot, about their behavior during engagement...
... the only hole left in the code, is when the SAM site has invulnerability.
(simply there is no code in the sim for that case)

neaner

Play the game seriously, with invulnerability off!!!

Last edited by Hpasp; 02/19/16 07:48 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4231456 - 02/20/16 02:16 PM Re: Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon" [Re: P_M_CS]  
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Also found a the incorrect data in the code, arming 4 HARM per F-18.
Corrected it to 2 per plane.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/5z2wdtrkh1e5q17/samsimv929c.rar

Last edited by Hpasp; 02/20/16 03:11 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4231769 - 02/21/16 10:33 AM Re: Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon" [Re: Hpasp]  
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Also found a the incorrect data in the code, arming 4 HARM per F-18.
Corrected it to 2 per plane.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/5z2wdtrkh1e5q17/samsimv929c.rar



Thank you very much for the quick assistance! smile2
Obviously I've used the invulnerable mode only to test the enemy aircraft behaviour. cool

#4399135 - 01/09/18 08:04 PM Re: Libya, 1986 - "Operation El Dorado Canyon" [Re: P_M_CS]  
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