I don't doubt that there is a tiny percentage of added traction given having fresh on the rear. But as i said before, in the realms of normal driving you as a driver will not notice any perceptible handling improvement.

If there was such a huge handling improvement, there would be a law requiring a minimum tread depth for rear end tyres as opposed to front.

But hey, do as you wish.

For me, i happily put fresh on front and tyres with less but good amount of tread on the rear. You know what, never lost the backend in close to a decade driving in this car in snow, slush, solid rain, floods and wet corners.

But i guess that has far more to do with my respectful driving as opposed to a nonsensical and miniscule grip increase by having fresh at the rear.

The only times i have lost the back end of my car ( sports- nissan skyline) wwas intentional because i had my foot down, turbo screaming and steering wheel turned sharply to make pretty circles or dust clouds. The other times were just plain stupidity as i was driving carelessly.

In the situations above, a fresh set of tyres would not have saved my rear end, whether the loss of traction was intentional or not.

If you choose to ignore the professionals, that is on you. But, you should be more circumspect in throwing those insults at other posters. Especially when you are wrong.

bogusheadbox I've worn out a few tow straps over the years helping people like you out of ditches

Well, yes i am australian, but living in the uk for a very long time now, so yeah, your "esses" and coutry lanes in yanksville resembles national motorways here in old scurvy blighty. And plenty of rain, poor road conditions, frost snow..... but no sharks.



Like i said before. You wont notice any perceptible difference between half tread and fresh tread on the rears under normal driving.

You don't know what you're talking about. You're using stuff from the hyperbole-filled video you scoff at as your reasoning why the people who disagree with you are wrong.

First of all, the freaking road doesn't need to be flooded for tires to lose traction, especially with the wide tires so common now. A dusting of snow, 1/10" of rain, with front wheel drive cars both are enough to cause the rear to skid because the rear tires are nothing but a trailer. What happens to a trailer on low traction roads? They slide from side to side behind the tow vehicle, which is why semis have separate trailer brake actuators and why electric brake controllers for cars and light trucks have a slide control to apply the brakes slightly.

Second, as stated above, wheelbase has a HUGE impact on skidding and stability. The closer your wheelbase:track width ratio is to 1, the more likely you are to skid. When driving my Jeep, with a 93.4" wheelbase and ~60-62" track width (stock rear is 58.5", I have wider tires which change it) on slippery roads (light rain, a dusting of snow, a film of ice) giving more than about 10% throttle will slide the ass end out. Same goes for braking. 2 wheel drive (RWD) or 4WD doesn't matter, it's squirrelly as hell and I've found myself going backwards more than once. On the other hand, my enormous F350 pickup, with 168" wheelbase and track width around 72", was almost impossible to skid if the weight bias was equal to my Jeep (very heavy over the rear wheels compared to an empty pickup.) Most FWD cars are light in the rearend, and have a relatively low wheelbase:track width ratio. Maybe not the 1.5:1 of my Jeep, but closer to that than to the 2.33:1 of my pickup.

Lastly, the reason tires with less traction work on the drive wheels of FWD cars is because they have more weight on them. More weight = more traction. Anyone who's driven an empty 2WD pickup in the snow then thrown 500lb in the bed over the rear wheels knows this. Plus, the law is a compromise between safety and forcing people to spend a lot of money. Up here minimum legal thread depth is 1/16". If you think 1/16" of tread is safe on anything but a dry road, you're crazy. Most people would have a fit if they were told they had to replace tires with only 30K miles on them because the tread depth was down to 1/8".

Really, learn a little about a topic before you start running your mouth, it'll help you not to look like a fool.

What aload of bulls##t. Never been in a ditch, so you have not helped anyone like me. What a retarded and stupid thing to say

One winter on the roads here and you would be a lot. I'm looking at snow cover roads with a coating of ice under the snow out side right now I bet you wouldn't even make it out of the driveway

I do have a clue what i am talking about and maybe you should re read what i am saying.

I agree there may be a traction increase, however under normal driving conditions you will never notice it. Push your car to the limit and drive it recklessly, yeah you would want it.

But i am nt saying that. I do not drive with bald tyres. I drive with plenty of tread. Driving within realms of the road with respect to speed gives far more traction than having a 3/4 tread tyre as opposed to frsh on the rear.

So have that in your pie.

Hmmm so wild assumptions yet again from a skewed perspective. I guess i had better prove you wrong again.

Lets use an example close to your heart. Drove from whistler to san hose (is that out of the driveway enough for you) thats vancouver if you didn't know. In the midle of winter, blizzard as well.......

And golly gosh me.....you know what.....I made.

I guess you didn't realise i lived in canada for a while.

What a presumptuous man you are.... next

I'll take your apology please............ wrong wrong wrong......ahahaha

The conditions I mentioned are normal driving conditions during the winter here. You are correct that the conditions stated do not apply to everyone and I admit that my implying that they do is wrong but you implying that the conditions that you see on the roads are applicable to everyone else are equally as wrong.

But i am not wrong.

Driving carefully will give you more traction than having fresh set of tyres on the rear as opposed to having 3/4 tread.

That is all i am saying. Ask a professional that too, and see what the answer is, i think you will find that they agree.

Where is this perception from you guys coming from that i am talking about running deficient illegal tyres on the rear......... honestly


As for throwing insults. Well the last few comments prove what i have been calling them.

You are being the whole trifecta; rude, obnoxious and wrong. Do you need to take a vacation? I was doing my comments in your other post and after that you had already posted this.

What do you not understand about a poster implying that i am a typical type of driver that gets pulled out of ditches. Say something stupid, i will call it stupid. Never been in a ditch.

At runmple, lets clear the air. Yep places like you describe have "abnormal" driving conditions for most of us that you would indeed call normal. Like in sweden (again a place i have driven quite a bit of), i wouldn't hesitate in winter throwing spiked tyres on and preference on 4wd. But to me that isn't nrmal driving environment.

But as i say, normal road conditions under normal driving activity you will not notice any perceptible grip additions by having fresh on the back vs 3/4 ir even half worn tyres.

That was me. I have "known" you for many, many years, and you are 100% of line. You are somebody I have considered to be an online 'friend' of sorts, but that is over now. I am going to set this issue here 100% straight as an arrow. I posted, and I quote:

"If you want car advice, coming to a game forum is less than ideal. I am fully aware that expertise and good information is here (I consider myself a source for that, and I'm here) but the old adage goes: You fish where the fish are. The internet could collapse under the weight of car forums, and none of us would go to a Subaru forum for the best info on the latest mods for Il2, would we?"

You choose to represent what I said as something else entirely.

Now read this carefully: I do not care who you are, but to mis-represent what I said so blatantly really pisses me off. I deny you the right to spin what I posted. I said it was less than ideal. I stated I knew there was expertise and good info here, and I used myself as an example, so I know it must be true. I qualified my statement. I didn't put anybody down. I didn't say anything like a gamers' forum was where know-nothings hang out. I ALSO did not say anything about anyone's opinion here 'not counting'. But you just have to spin it.



I also mentioned physics. Now look. if you do not understand that the tire carcass constantly moves and twists in order to maintain traction, that's your problem, not mine. If you do not understand the dynamics about polar moment or wheelbase, that is also your problem, not mine. If you also do not understand that your anecdotal experience does not trump fact, that is also your problem, not mine. But that also does not mean that since you have anecdotal experience, you know best.




Yes. Let's. And let's start by pointing out that your anecdotal evidence is wonderful, but that's where its validity stops. Many people do things incorrectly for many, many years. The age of your misconceptions does not make them right.

Chris,
OUT.

Yep you're right. Everyone else is complacently clueless. Just rest assured if you ever come to Maine I have a brand new tow strap in the back of my truck and will be glad to pull you out of that ditch that you will inevitably slid into.

Why do people on these boards have to take something said out of context and blow it out of proportion.


You know what, i see a flooded corner, i slow down. Even on slicks, i will get round that corner at the correct speed.

But what if i can't see round the corner at the flood past the apex......then you are driving too fast to react to the road conditions.

As i said before, which people in blind rage have already forgotten. I am not taking about ice, i am not talking about offroading. i am talking about driving a car in nrmal driving conditions (i will include heavy rain in that) and i can guarantee that you will not notice any grip advancements between a fresh and partially worn tyre when driving at a pace suitable for the environment...


Gosh, talk about people wanting to rage with no grey matter involvement

What rage?

I think using grey matter would be applying the research and analysis of professionals. I would think that ignoring it would be a case of no grey matter involvement.

But it seems you are intent on digging deeper. So by all means, if you wish to ...

@462cid, a perfect example.

You considered me a friend, but because i disagree you no longer consider me a friend.... really????

Thats over the top to start with.

I know about tyre wall deformation in corners etc.. please re-read my posts, your blind rage has taken you to a place you shouldn't be.

I won't humble the rest of you post except to prove one simple physics lesson to you.

I can have a flooded corner where my car will depart at 45 mph on fresh tyres. You know what, i can get around that corner with BALD TYRES if i go at 5mph.

There is more at it than just tyre mate.


Like i said before, under normal driving conditions and driving at appropriate soeeds for the conditions, you will not notice any difference between fresh and 3/4 fresh tyres.

But if you want to be pedantic about it and this goes to everyone else here taking me out of context, then where is the listed degradation of braking co-efficient vs angular momentum for given surface type, camber, inclination, tempreture and type of tyre for a given speed.


WHAT..... THERE ISN'T ANY..... then how can you go accuse me of knowing nothing when you so called experts have not published a traction degradation in respect to a fresh tyre vs a 3/4fresh tyre.

Sorry you don't consider me a friend..... your choice, not mine

As my post above... i am happy to dig deeper, i have more than proven myself. Where are these so called stats you speak of, you have not posted any.

Here is another example for you, and i will exaggerate the fact to make it simpler.

A car with all fresh tyres. You take a hairpin turn at 200mph, car departs and crashes. Take the corner at 5mph on fresh tyres and the car does not depart.


Take that same coner at 5mph on the worst tyres you ever saw and you will still make the corner.


What don't you understand. Tell me thats wrong?

That was a set piece video of a person taking a dangerous corner too quickly. Its not the tyre but the drivers fault for taking it at 45 mph





At rumpleheart, you know i have never been to main. I think the closest i got was hamilton lake ontario.... but that is a moot point.... did you not see my post about living in the canadian rockies...????? Loved it lads of snow, great 4x4ing. But never ended up in a ditch...... better use that strap for someone else mate...... wildly assuming again



Edited.