Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 11 1 2 3 4 10 11
#4213285 - 01/05/16 04:13 AM Re: Leatherneck Simulations New Years Eve Update [Re: scrim]  
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 49
Tirak Offline
Junior Member
Tirak  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 49
Originally Posted By: scrim
Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
and this is why other developers are simply not saying anything until pre release phase nos.


Well, I suppose moping like 5 year olds is easier to do than getting a grip and work out how to learn from dozens of identical mistakes. Would've been nice if ED has started actually forcing certain devs to issue refunds (looking at you, VEAO and AvioDev) or strip them of their 3rd party status.


Learn from their identical mistakes? Um, LN is breaking new ground. The first third party to work on a map, the first third party make a two seater combat jet (simplified trainers excluded), creating their own ground radar systems. LN does more than the other third parties. RAZBAM when asked about their next modules, they said they couldn't do anything about things like the A-7 until ED finished the ground radar. LN said 'We'll make our own goddamn radar'. They don't just make the planes then toss in ED code for the parts like other companies, they build their own. Of course they're going to run into delays, of course they're going to have problems. They're blazing new ground and powering through new mistakes and misteps because they're doing what no other third party is.

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4213296 - 01/05/16 04:41 AM Re: Leatherneck Simulations New Years Eve Update [Re: - Ice]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice Offline
Veteran
- Ice  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
Originally Posted By: Force10
Edit: Cmon Ice...you know better than that.


You latched on to those TWO WORDS??
That was light-hearted anyway... to go along with the rest of my post, but I can see how it would rub others the wrong way.

Back to taking pictures and keeping up with foreign relations... biggrin


- Ice
#4213305 - 01/05/16 06:28 AM Re: Leatherneck Simulations New Years Eve Update [Re: ]  
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 597
Maico Offline
Member
Maico  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 597
Qatar
Originally Posted By: Troll
Originally Posted By: - Ice
I, for one, am going to buy the F-14 when it comes out. Heck, I'm probably going to pre-order it. No working weapons? That's fine! Not realistic avionics and flight model? That's good! I want to brake and I want that MiG to fly right by! I will be flying this baby low and fast past whatever tower I can find in the Black Sea while listening to Top Gun tunes. The only way they can make this more awesome is if they added DOA Beach Volleyball to the package!


rofl! I have to admit...I'm with Ice on this one..! ;-)

Originally Posted By: - Ice

It'll give me a few hours of entertainment but the little boy inside me doesn't care.


That's my basic view on all modules. There's always something to like, even if parts of it is bad. wink


Sorry to be a banwagon jumper... But I am in. I suspect our wagon will be full to capacity when the Tomcat is released. The Tomcat will be a Yardstick by witch all others sims are measured. Sort of like the Fishbed is...


Maico
i7 5930 @4.2Ghz
EVGA GTX1080 8GB Hybrid
DDR4 3000 x 32Gig
Fatal1ty x99x Mother
LG 34"UC97 Curved
Ultra Wide 3440x1440
TiR5, Thrustmaster Warthog,
Slaw Device Bf-109 Pedals
#4213314 - 01/05/16 08:17 AM Re: Leatherneck Simulations New Years Eve Update [Re: - Ice]  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,195
Force10 Offline
I'm just a
Force10  Offline
I'm just a
Senior Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,195
CA
Originally Posted By: - Ice
Originally Posted By: Force10
Edit: Cmon Ice...you know better than that.


You latched on to those TWO WORDS??
That was light-hearted anyway... to go along with the rest of my post, but I can see how it would rub others the wrong way.

Back to taking pictures and keeping up with foreign relations... biggrin


Just remember that sarcasm in the form of written text doesn't always carry the same feel as spoken word. I was pretty sure you were not too serious...but there's a chance someone will take it the wrong way. wink


Asus Z87 Sabertooth motherboard
Windows 7 64 bit Home edition
Intel I5 4670K @ 4.4 ghz
16 gig 1866mhz Corsair Vengence Pro memory
EVGA GTX 970 Superclocked 4gb Video Card
Intel 510 series 120gb SSD (boot drive)
Samsung 840 1TB SSD
Onboard Realtek sound
______________________________________________________

Oddball from Kelly's Heroes: "If we're late, it's cause we're dead"



#4213333 - 01/05/16 11:55 AM Re: Leatherneck Simulations New Years Eve Update [Re: Tirak]  
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,180
scrim Offline
Member
scrim  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,180
Originally Posted By: Tirak
Originally Posted By: scrim
Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
and this is why other developers are simply not saying anything until pre release phase nos.


Well, I suppose moping like 5 year olds is easier to do than getting a grip and work out how to learn from dozens of identical mistakes. Would've been nice if ED has started actually forcing certain devs to issue refunds (looking at you, VEAO and AvioDev) or strip them of their 3rd party status.


Learn from their identical mistakes? Um, LN is breaking new ground. The first third party to work on a map, the first third party make a two seater combat jet (simplified trainers excluded), creating their own ground radar systems. LN does more than the other third parties. RAZBAM when asked about their next modules, they said they couldn't do anything about things like the A-7 until ED finished the ground radar. LN said 'We'll make our own goddamn radar'. They don't just make the planes then toss in ED code for the parts like other companies, they build their own. Of course they're going to run into delays, of course they're going to have problems. They're blazing new ground and powering through new mistakes and misteps because they're doing what no other third party is.


I'm talking about the general trend among all DCS developers of never, ever living up to their own release deadlines, as well as most other of their own deadlines.

#4213349 - 01/05/16 12:54 PM Re: Leatherneck Simulations New Years Eve Update [Re: Nate]  
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 49
Tirak Offline
Junior Member
Tirak  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 49
I understand that, and I'm saying that in the case of some developers, that makes more sense than others. When you're breaking new ground with what is possible in the sim, you're going to run into problems, unexpected delays that you simply didn't foresee. The second and third runs through are much easier, since you have a general idea of how things go, but in the case of LN, they're creating whole new component systems, and it's proving to be a greater challenge than they realized, so of course their dates slipped. If they were just working on a module with the same sort of systems and characteristics as their earlier MiG-21 then i would have no sympathy, but they're not, they're doing stuff not even ED has done yet.

#4213367 - 01/05/16 02:05 PM Re: Leatherneck Simulations New Years Eve Update [Re: Nate]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,804
ST0RM Offline
Senior Member
ST0RM  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,804
Ten Mile, Tn
After reading many of these threads in which Dev X hasnt met a self-imposed deadline, the customer base either calls for their lynching or rescue.

What many don't notice is that these Devs are part time companies. Or at least that's what they claim to be. So, I'm a bit more understanding, to an extent. It doesn't make me like the delays any more than the rest, but I get it. However, if they continue to miss deadlines, then they truly need to ask themselves some tough management questions. And if it is part time, then they cannot expect full time prices on the products that are released in Beta status with drawn out, finalization schedules. As we've read, that is probably one of the most despised practices in this series.

Being in the sim business, I deal with our contractors directly to get something fixed within a prescribed time. Otherwise they'll push it aside to pursue other interests that make a profit. Maybe ED needs to impose a time limit on Beta status to ensure products are completed and not left in limbo. It would help to restore some trust with the community and possibly push more products out.

I've been burned by dev companies on many products over the years. So now I'm very leery of buying anything from them. I let me $$ speak for me and read a lot of reviews before buying, to ensure I'm getting what I want.

Just my $.02
Back to learning to fight in this confounded MiG-21 wink

-Jeff

#4213375 - 01/05/16 02:26 PM Re: Leatherneck Simulations New Years Eve Update [Re: Nate]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,572
LOF_Rugg Offline
Senior Member
LOF_Rugg  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,572
If DCS was the Battlefield series or the Call of Duty series y'all would be calling for their heads on a pike, delivering an unfinished game.

Just sayin'

#4213402 - 01/05/16 03:42 PM Re: Leatherneck Simulations New Years Eve Update [Re: Nate]  
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 623
Sobek Offline
Professional scapegoat
Sobek  Offline
Professional scapegoat
Member

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 623
In that case "we'd" have somewhat of a point because "we'd" be paying full price for each update every 2 or so years.

In case of DCS, there was so far one paid upgrade, all the others came for free for the last 8 years. Different genre, different communities, different monetization concepts, anything that's not different apart from being computer games?

#4213413 - 01/05/16 04:03 PM Re: Leatherneck Simulations New Years Eve Update [Re: LOF_Rugg]  
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 17,632
SkateZilla Offline
Skate Zilla Graphics
SkateZilla  Offline
Skate Zilla Graphics
Veteran

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 17,632
Virginia Beach, VA
Originally Posted By: LOF_Rugg
If DCS was the Battlefield series or the Call of Duty series y'all would be calling for their heads on a pike, delivering an unfinished game.

Just sayin'


lol, Bf4 was redonkulous, dont even compare them.

BF4 at launch was equivelent to A pre Alpha code dump to disk and fix later after they generate revenue from everyone that paid for it.

To an enduser, it might not seem that bad,, to someone that knows what went on on the inside... it was stupid crazy.

BF4 was the most rushed and delivered incomplete title Ive seen since 2003.

Bi Yearly Installments of the same content, and rebooted content, and pple throw money at them,

better yet, ppl throw money at EA Sports every year for updated rosters, and some GFX spitshine.

But EDs the bad guys.. shrug..


The MiG and LN are prolly the best 3rd Party Module/Team outside of ED/BST.

The only knocks people can have against them are delays in physical rewards, and TBH, they arent bound to even fulfill those, since the IGG was not theirs.

Seriously, whats the point in pushing for an Install DVD? the Software is updated on a frequency that would make the DVD obsolete before its even pressed/burned.

TShirts and stuff, ok, cool.

As for delays, they happen.

I dont see why ppl get so crazy over delays, its part of software development,

someone misses a pre-planned release window and everyone loses their friggen mind, do you guys go ballistic when other stuff is delayed outside of DCS realm I wonder? or do you simply do it here for the sake of garnering negative attention upon yourselves?

No Software is perfect, No developer is perfect, however DCSW and its modules are in constant development, so they will never be "done"

Last edited by SkateZilla; 01/05/16 04:11 PM.

HAF922, Corsair RM850, ASRock Fata1ity 990FX Pro,
Modified Corsair H100, AMD FX8350 @ 5.31GHz, 16GB G.SKILL@DDR2133,
2x R7970 Lightnings, +1 HD7950 @ 1.1/6.0GHz, Creative XFi Fata1ity Platinum Champ.,
3x ASUS VS248HP + Hanns�G HZ201HPB + Acer AL2002 (5760x1080+1600x900+1680x1050), Oculus Rift CV
CH Fighterstick, Pro Throt., Pro Pedals, TM Warthog & MFDs, Fanatec CSR Wheel/Shifter, Elite Pedals
Intensity Pro 10-Bit, TrackIR 4 Pro, WD Black 1.5TB, WD Black 640GB, Samsung 850 500GB, My Book 4TB
#4213428 - 01/05/16 04:37 PM Re: Leatherneck Simulations New Years Eve Update [Re: Nate]  
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,599
Frederf Offline
Member
Frederf  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,599
21 bestest module. Not only do they model the system function but also throw in the wear and tear stuff to reward mechanical sympathy and make it more a machine than something immune to abuse.

It's a shame that it's not quite done and inaccurate in places. Properly GCI and AI wingmen would really make the module shine.

#4213465 - 01/05/16 05:42 PM Re: Leatherneck Simulations New Years Eve Update [Re: Sobek]  
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,180
scrim Offline
Member
scrim  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,180
Originally Posted By: Sobek
In that case "we'd" have somewhat of a point because "we'd" be paying full price for each update every 2 or so years.

In case of DCS, there was so far one paid upgrade, all the others came for free for the last 8 years. Different genre, different communities, different monetization concepts, anything that's not different apart from being computer games?


Oh I see. So because ED aren't screwing us to the fullest extent imaginable (because they'd go bankrupt if they did), all the other ways they're screwing us are alright? Thanks for clearing that one up for me!

#4213469 - 01/05/16 05:54 PM Re: Leatherneck Simulations New Years Eve Update [Re: Maico]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
- Ice Offline
Veteran
- Ice  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
Originally Posted By: Troll
rofl! I have to admit...I'm with Ice on this one..! ;-)

<snip!!>

That's my basic view on all modules. There's always something to like, even if parts of it is bad. wink


OMG!!! Me and Troll ("Troll and I") agreeing on something!! 2016 is going to be a magical year!! smile thumbsup

Originally Posted By: Maico
Sorry to be a banwagon jumper... But I am in. I suspect our wagon will be full to capacity when the Tomcat is released. The Tomcat will be a Yardstick by witch all others sims are measured. Sort of like the Fishbed is...


You guys can be my wingman anytime!

tomcat


- Ice
#4213473 - 01/05/16 06:01 PM Re: Leatherneck Simulations New Years Eve Update [Re: - Ice]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,699
NavyNuke99 Offline
One Man Wolfpack
NavyNuke99  Offline
One Man Wolfpack
Hotshot

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,699
Raleigh, NC
Originally Posted By: - Ice

You guys can be my wingman anytime!

tomcat


BS. You can be mine. thumbsup


" And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction: 'I served in the United States Navy.'"- John F. Kennedy

"NUKE-ular. It's pronounced NUKE-ular."- Homer Simpson

AMD FX-8350 Vishera @ 4.0 Ghz
ASUS Sabertooth 990FX R2.0
2x 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 @ 1600
Sapphire Radeon HD 7850 2GB
CM Storm Series Trooper
Samsung 840 series 500 GB OS/ Game drive
WD Green 2TB Media Drive
Thermaltake Black Widow 850W PSU
#4213485 - 01/05/16 06:29 PM Re: Leatherneck Simulations New Years Eve Update [Re: SkateZilla]  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,195
Force10 Offline
I'm just a
Force10  Offline
I'm just a
Senior Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,195
CA
Originally Posted By: SkateZilla


The only knocks people can have against them are delays in physical rewards, and TBH, they arent bound to even fulfill those, since the IGG was not theirs.

Seriously, whats the point in pushing for an Install DVD? the Software is updated on a frequency that would make the DVD obsolete before its even pressed/burned.

TShirts and stuff, ok, cool.



Making light of the rewards is only hurting developers at this point. The tiered rewards structure is there to help put more money in the developers pocket to fund the game. The more developers that make a mockery of it and don't honor these rewards makes people shy away from future crowd funding efforts.

And the old "this product changed hands now...so we don't have to honor the original rewards" bs is getting old.

I don't care much about delayed announcements or screenshots etc...but when money has changed hands up front, honoring what you agreed to should be priority one. Don't offer rewards if the funding goal you set isn't enough to cover it.


Asus Z87 Sabertooth motherboard
Windows 7 64 bit Home edition
Intel I5 4670K @ 4.4 ghz
16 gig 1866mhz Corsair Vengence Pro memory
EVGA GTX 970 Superclocked 4gb Video Card
Intel 510 series 120gb SSD (boot drive)
Samsung 840 1TB SSD
Onboard Realtek sound
______________________________________________________

Oddball from Kelly's Heroes: "If we're late, it's cause we're dead"



#4213493 - 01/05/16 07:13 PM Re: Leatherneck Simulations New Years Eve Update [Re: Force10]  
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 110
amnwrx Offline
Member
amnwrx  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 110
Originally Posted By: Force10
Originally Posted By: SkateZilla


The only knocks people can have against them are delays in physical rewards, and TBH, they arent bound to even fulfill those, since the IGG was not theirs.

Seriously, whats the point in pushing for an Install DVD? the Software is updated on a frequency that would make the DVD obsolete before its even pressed/burned.

TShirts and stuff, ok, cool.



Making light of the rewards is only hurting developers at this point. The tiered rewards structure is there to help put more money in the developers pocket to fund the game. The more developers that make a mockery of it and don't honor these rewards makes people shy away from future crowd funding efforts.

And the old "this product changed hands now...so we don't have to honor the original rewards" bs is getting old.

In my mind this is a semi-moot point now. I think devs used the crowd funding route to get things up and running and now they have turned into nothing but a pain in the butt for both devs and costomers. I seriously doubt we will see crowd funding again in DCS, especially from established devs, pre-purchases not withstanding of coarse. I am satified with the LN/(that other company) campaign, I mean I got the mig for 19$, but I can see how the rewards thing would leave a sour taste with people looking forward to them. Hopefully new fledgling devs can find a different way cause I most likely will never participate in one again. All in all kudos to LN for trying to make things right.

Last edited by amnwrx; 01/05/16 07:16 PM.
#4213530 - 01/05/16 08:38 PM Re: Leatherneck Simulations New Years Eve Update [Re: Nate]  
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 161
zaelu Offline
MercInc staff
zaelu  Offline
MercInc staff
Member

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 161
France (ex Romania)
I reached the level where for me it doesn't matter what LNS say will sell next year. LNS for me is now on par with VEAO and AvioDev. The difference is that VEAO stayed on that level from day one but LNS lowered itself there.

#4213532 - 01/05/16 08:41 PM Re: Leatherneck Simulations New Years Eve Update [Re: amnwrx]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 772
Johnny_Redd Offline
Member
Johnny_Redd  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 772
Originally Posted By: amnwrx
Originally Posted By: Force10
Originally Posted By: SkateZilla


The only knocks people can have against them are delays in physical rewards, and TBH, they arent bound to even fulfill those, since the IGG was not theirs.

Seriously, whats the point in pushing for an Install DVD? the Software is updated on a frequency that would make the DVD obsolete before its even pressed/burned.

TShirts and stuff, ok, cool.



Making light of the rewards is only hurting developers at this point. The tiered rewards structure is there to help put more money in the developers pocket to fund the game. The more developers that make a mockery of it and don't honor these rewards makes people shy away from future crowd funding efforts.

And the old "this product changed hands now...so we don't have to honor the original rewards" bs is getting old.

In my mind this is a semi-moot point now. I think devs used the crowd funding route to get things up and running and now they have turned into nothing but a pain in the butt for both devs and costomers. I seriously doubt we will see crowd funding again in DCS, especially from established devs, pre-purchases not withstanding of coarse. I am satified with the LN/(that other company) campaign, I mean I got the mig for 19$, but I can see how the rewards thing would leave a sour taste with people looking forward to them. Hopefully new fledgling devs can find a different way cause I most likely will never participate in one again. All in all kudos to LN for trying to make things right.


It may be a moot point for you but for many others it is most definitely not. Without the crowd funding would the project have even started? Did the devs have the money to start the project or to see it through until release? Developers are starting a business with other folks money, with the promise of rewards. When you take away the rewards after your project is funded you're pretty much spitting in the face of your backers. "Thanks for the startup cash but we lied about the rewards."
I seriously doubt we will see crowd funding in the normal sense again in DCS, because the Crowd have been burned too many times by this platform. We are seeing a kind of crowd funding with the release of betas and alphas for cash. Unfinished products for full price with the only reward being early access. And there are way too many folk willing to accept this business practice. It's so sad it's pitiful.


DCS Kickstarter
Wags July 2014 "In this July 2014 update, the primary news is in regards to the restructured backer rewards. After a careful review of the older system under RRG, we found it financially unattainable."
Wags October 2017 "the investment vs. generated revenue has been excellent for the World War II aircraft. In fact, the P-51D Mustang has twice the cost effectiveness of the A-10C Warthog."
#4213535 - 01/05/16 08:47 PM Re: Leatherneck Simulations New Years Eve Update [Re: Johnny_Redd]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,943
Nate Offline
Member
Nate  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,943
Dublin, Ireland
Originally Posted By: Johnny_Redd
Unfinished products for full price with the only reward being early access. And there are way too many folk willing to accept this business practice. It's so sad it's pitiful.


It seems to be game-industry wide too. Why do you think it is so prevalent?

Nate

#4213539 - 01/05/16 08:53 PM Re: Leatherneck Simulations New Years Eve Update [Re: Nate]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 772
Johnny_Redd Offline
Member
Johnny_Redd  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 772
Originally Posted By: Nate
Originally Posted By: Johnny_Redd
Unfinished products for full price with the only reward being early access. And there are way too many folk willing to accept this business practice. It's so sad it's pitiful.


It seems to be game-industry wide too. Why do you think it is so prevalent?

Nate

And why did you ignore the first part of my post?


DCS Kickstarter
Wags July 2014 "In this July 2014 update, the primary news is in regards to the restructured backer rewards. After a careful review of the older system under RRG, we found it financially unattainable."
Wags October 2017 "the investment vs. generated revenue has been excellent for the World War II aircraft. In fact, the P-51D Mustang has twice the cost effectiveness of the A-10C Warthog."
Page 2 of 11 1 2 3 4 10 11

Moderated by  Force10, RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
Russell Morash was 88
by F4UDash4. 06/23/24 02:36 PM
Small airplane accident
by oldgrognard. 06/21/24 09:31 PM
Movies with the most enigmatic endings
by PanzerMeyer. 06/21/24 05:14 PM
Donald Sutherland - RIP
by PanzerMeyer. 06/20/24 06:23 PM
Mid Atantic Air Museum P-61
by KRT_Bong. 06/20/24 01:57 PM
Willie May's was 93
by F4UDash4. 06/19/24 01:44 AM
The Korean War Youtube series
by wormfood. 06/18/24 02:37 PM
Is 56 too old to learn how to play guitar ?
by WangoTango. 06/18/24 12:42 AM
Euro 24
by RossUK. 06/14/24 08:28 PM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0