I'll try it a different way because I want to avoid the image of being pedantic as some might think.

If you want to ask me a specific question of what I think, go ahead, but I'll pose a question first. How someone answers this will determine that they 'get it'.

You have to pick one- in the relationship and mating game, which is the one that does the choosing? Is it the males who choose or is it the females? *


* This is not a trick question. The answer is one or the other, it's not 'both' or 'neither' or something like that.

Stopped looking for a job (or as my past posts will reveal, resigned from jobs I didn't like), went back home and retired myself in mid 30s.

The place I'm in is very peaceful. Problem is boredom, if I live to 60 then my problem is what to do with my remaining 30 years.

Everything I'm sharing here, that happened in the "other side of the globe". Where I am now, nothing happens (think of yoda in Dagobah or Obi-Wan in Tatooine as a hermit).

Cheers,

Spend the next 30 years playing games. Problem solved.

Can we tackle world peace next?

In humans? Depends on the culture. Sometimes it **IS** both (western culture), sometimes it's neither (some asian cultures)...

I get that, and I know why you're saying that. It's good to bring that up, and I'll explain why that is beside the point. There is something that happens biologically and is more primitive that comes before things like culture or verbal agreements or philosophy or politics or things like this. As we know, cultures of all sorts do all kinds of things which try to curb things like more basic needs and desires.

If you had to pick one, which one would you pick that does the choosing (hint: it's also good you might be thinking of animals as well as humans)?

Humans are animals.

Men pick the mate. Women decide if he's right.

Well, it really is the females, isn't it? In the end, they have the final say.

So, these cultures that have arranged marriages are inflicting an artificial situation on at least one party, sometimes it's both and neither the male nor the female has a choice.

But in non-human animals, it's much more difficult to find examples of males doing the choosing. The job of the male is to attract the female rather than the other way around. The female likes his plumage, or his mating dance or his mating song, or the way he builds his shelter or she sees how he fights off competitors, the female chooses him. The male demonstrates and displays, the females do their analyses on him to determine his worth. Look at lions- the female walks up to the male and lies down and presents and submits to the male she's chosen. She runs from or fights off the males that pursue that she's not chosen.

To find examples of animals which reverse this looks like a mating strategy that favors a forced copulation- male sharks or some male reptiles forcibly grab females with their teeth and hold them down. Dolphins can be pretty brutal, gangs of males just mob and force themselves on a female.

In humans, it's really not too different- except our culture has kind of reversed this situation and made it confusing. The idea is that the male chases and pursues, and if you've followed what I said in other threads, this is generally not attractive to women. It's the other way around.

Hence, why women refer to certain guys as a catch- the guy they want to catch and land.

Some people have alluded to this here, and I've explained it in other threads- women will test you. They test their prospective mates, they test their boyfriends, they test their lovers, they test their husbands. Often times the males don't know they are being tested and they chalk the female's behavior as mysterious or illogical or something. In reality, women test men to see what their 'investment' does- how it behaves, how it shows its resilience or how it sticks up for itself, how calm or upset it gets, how it stays or goes or even just for entertainment. A guy who fails these tests does that enough and the woman begins to lose interest or begins to take control of the relationship.

And this is why I've explained again in other threads how females view males which are too available, too nice, reveal their emotions too readily or too soon, don't stick up for themselves as 'lower value', why on the other hand males who come and go and do as they please and whose feelings are more unclear and those males who attract and seduce and invite the women to come along with no pressure are much more attractive, and why it's counter-intuitive to understand how female psychology actually is, because it's often presented to us in an ideal that works the opposite of how they are really are- again, they are like cats.

A cat wants to pursue the string, we're the string. It catches the string too easily, it loses interest. If you charge the cat, rather than the cat coming to you, it bolts. However, you dangle that string just out of reach that it only gets glimpses of it, that thing is very attractive and enticing and challenging to them.

So what do the women in your life say in response to your cat-and-string theory?

The problem is not 'sensitivity' in my opinion. The problem is that social media has made everyone so emotionally insecure.

I don't get social media. Forums like this is as close as I get to Facebook. I post here, and if somebody disagrees or calls me a name, it is not pleasant, but my attitude is in two parts:

1) well maybe I was wrong. I'll go and check
2) that person that made the statement sis a jerk and that's his problem not mine

Maybe I'll express my displeasure, maybe I won't, but to think that this person or even group of persons has some hold over me due to words on the internet...I can't even conceptualize how that could exist.

Because it's a form of community. You have done a human thing and joined a community which focuses loosely on a common interest. For many of us, that is a deeper connection than a physical neighborhood of strangers. I live in a suburb populated by immigrants from all over the world, but primarily from one ethnic group. They are wonderful people but, culturally, we have so little in common. When you don't share a common interest in religion, politics or music, there isn't much left to form a connection strong enough to be called friendship. SimHQ and other hobby-based communities are not fake communities. I have made genuine friends here, something I have yet to do in my corner of NJ. But there is one thing that this--moving electrons to a server instead of chatting over a beer--shares with Facebook: we only expose the self we want others to see. Conversation forces the sharing one's weaknesses and mistakes. Forums and social media in general protect us from being exposed.

It depends on how comfortable they are to admit it. Women and men don't necessarily like to admit everything to one another. Of course women don't like to admit that cocky guys turn them on. Men also often don't admit things that turn them on for fear of what the other person might think. If a woman admits what she is on about, she is giving away some power, because now you know how she operates. People don't want to do that. I watch this happen again and again and it's very predictable- when you don't care and don't call back and blow up their phones, you'll see how much they start reaching out to you and try to put themselves in your orbit and try to get your attention. When you do care and you show it, their interest on the other hand starts to diminish. You start contacting them more and every time you do that you do damage to her interest levels, so, in sum, in the beginning courtship phase, the females should be doing most of the pursuing. And they actually feel more natural doing that.

Dating lots of people will give you enormous insights not just into women but how people generally behave. You see enough of them to start seeing people's baggage, how insecure they are, their fears and desires and where they come from and what disappointed them, what hurts them and what turns them on. It's just great practice. Your own social skills increase and your hangups or fears or insecurities diminish.

I've said this before, a great way to get practice and get comfortable is to start practicing dating girls that you aren't really interested in, and remember what it feels like. When that happens, you are much more comfortable on the dates and you are much more confident and it's much easier to do all the right things- because you don't care as much. You won't be nervous and you won't be prone to try and put yourself out, you're much more likely to speak your mind comfortably or to move in for for that kiss towards the end. You're more authentic because you're more yourself. It's when guys think they've got a hot item that they will tend to start acting differently, then they start to be intimidated, they're not so comfortable in their skin around the person, or they start to over-pursue too early. There is a basic fallacy that they have to act and they have to do something to keep the girl rather than do nothing and let the women come to them. They start getting nervous that the other person might leave or needs to see how much that they care. They need to show that they care- and it's counter-intuitive, but it's not good to show your hand too quickly, the person who does that is conceding first. What that means is that guys might really want to think about not sending flowers or cards or revealing too much too soon, wait until the girl signals that you're in a relationship to do stuff like that, or else he's showing too much interest too soon and the girl will start talking with her girlfriends and they'll start debating whether the guy is too 'desperate'. You can't buy people's affections, so guys don't have to try and do that. I know the movies make it look like you're supposed to do that, and that's what they get so wrong.

The person in a relationship who cares least has most of the power, they feel more in control and have more options whether to stay or go. If that gulf gets too big, the relationship gets into trouble- it becomes more one sided, one of the people realizes they can stay or go and that they could have other options elsewhere, the other person is more at the mercy of their feelings, and they're going to be in the worse position and they're going to be more prone to do whatever it takes to keep the other person, and that will further make the situation worse. It's like what the director John Hughes had said- 'you can't respect someone who kisses your ass. it will not work.'

So even after a breakup, you can tell which one is more hurt or has bad feelings left over by seeing which one cares more to cut all contact. The person whose attitude is "I want to stay friends, I don't want to burn bridges,' - that person cares less and is less affected by the breakup and they're not as hurt seeing or hearing about an ex and what they're up to.

It was Mark G who posted this song, and there is a salient message in it. This is after all advice he is explaining which comes not from me, not from another male, but from another woman. If they like you, women will sometimes help you out and give you clues about backing off, because pursuing them and being around too much will kill interest levels.




Here are the lyrics.

You see it all around you
Good lovin' gone bad
And usually it's too late when you
Realize what you had

And my mind goes back to a girl I left
Long years ago who told me

Just hold on loosely
But don't let go
If you cling too tightly
You're gonna lose control

Your baby needs someone to believe in
And a whole lot of space to breathe in

It's so damn easy
When your feelings are such
To overprotect her
To love her too much

And my mind goes back to a girl I left
Long years ago who told me

Just hold on loosely
But don't let go
If you cling too tightly
You're gonna lose control

Your baby needs someone to believe in
And a whole lot of space to breathe in

Don't let her slip away
Sentimental fool
Don't let your heart get in the way
Yeah, yeah, yeah

You see it all around you
Good lovin' gone bad
And usually it's too late when you
Realize what you had

So hold on loosely
But don't let go
If you cling too tightly
You're gonna lose control

Your baby needs someone to believe in
And a whole lot of space to breathe in

So hold on loosely
But don't let go
If you cling too tightly
You're gonna lose it
You're gonna lose control

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

So hold on loosely
But don't let go
If you cling too tightly
You're gonna lose control

Hold on loosely
But don't let go
If you cling too tightly to her
You're gonna lose control, yeah, yeah, yeah

I think it depends on the women you surround yourself with. The women in my circles were always severely turned off by cocky guys aka "d-bags".

Oh of course they say that.

Now let me add something- there is a difference between guys who obviously are faking a lot of false bravado and laying it on too thick and guys who are a little cocky but aren't necessarily douche bags. You don't do that at all, and that's not what I'm saying.

Just like in most things there is a middle ground and it depends on the experience levels of both people. Girls without lots of dating experience or have lots of dating experience with clingy, emotional nice guys over pursuing them might start finding the cocky guys a better alternative, because at least they don't appear to be so desperate. And then of course the girl will start to see that for what it is- an act by someone who isn't that confident at all and is just faking it with a lot of false advertising.

But girls with enough experience (read: quite attractive women because they will have experience getting male's attention) and who have healthy self esteem will prefer a guy who is immensely comfortable with himself, comfortable interacting with women, but is also kind of indifferent and aloof and doesn't over pursue in the beginning.

The movies really do that wrong- the underdog goes after the girl, pursuing her until she sees his big heart and her feelings change. They make it look like all this time passes in the the period of two hours, they show these pensive scenes of leaves falling slowly from trees and the girl is won over. It's really manipulative of people's feelings, but it's very inaccurate. In real life, there is no theme music suggesting to the audience that the girl's feelings are changing like that, there is no montage of romantic images flying by; this looks much differently in real life, this guy who is pursuing actually starts coming off desperate or clingy or needy or stalkerish or obsessive or something. Doesn't work that way, and why should people think that people who write movies necessarily understand how it works. It's just like these poets who used to write these really off the wall poems about how sublime and pure women are, I get the sense that they didn't get girls at all, and many of them even seem to admit it, because their poems are putting women on pedestals and are worshipping them from a distance and they'll never have them and this sort of thing. Women want to peel away layers and find more to the guy rather than have the guy show his whole hand upfront and they are not attracted to being put up on pedestals or over pursued.

The people who put the James Bond character on screen have so much better grasp about what women think is sexy. Bond is not the emotional guy who pursues the girl, it's the other way around.

Quickly examine this character. Cool, indifferent, unclear with his feelings. Moves fast. Unbelievably comfortable around women. He projects this sense that everything is inevitable, including the girl going out with him. it's almost impossible to fake things like this, and you don't necessarily have to. No one is going to get as good as James Bond, the idea is that some men are closer than others.

I want to point out something very subtle that a lot of guys aren't going to catch. At around 1:52 Bond gives a very fast signal to the girl with his eyes only. Doesn't say anything or gesture with his body other than him getting up to leave. But the eyes say it all- 'come along with me, if you want to'

So this puts things in the 'natural' order of how it should be to women- the man is on the go and on the move and invites the woman along to see what happens. 'who is this mysterious, interesting guy and where is he going without me. I want to see what he does.' And he gets up first (which is a powerful move- the person who leaves first shows less need or less interest) and she follows.

It does work this way in real life. There's been times that I invited a girl to come with me, and she didn't move and seemed unsure of what to do. But by leaving first and going out the door, they follow and come with me. Again, like a cat chasing after the string. If it's the other way around and I'm following her where she's going, that is not good, that is going to kill her interest levels. That's like the love sick puppy, that's the guy that's whipped who is over eager and too interested and too easy.

You called it...

Just wondering how this is different or better from what we millennials usually do when we break up with someone: block the ex and remove her as a friend, remove all of her friends, and tell your friends to do the same. The mind games to "win" the breakup can be pretty vicious. In fact, one of the easiest ways to tell if a couple you know is if they are no longer friends with each other....which reminds me, going to see which ones of my acquaintances has just broken up so I can play rebound guy

In all seriousness though, isn't awkwardness in a couple's shared social circle if they break up one of the reasons that has historically encouraged people to stick around and try to work it out? I mean, with the consequences ranging from being given the cold shoulder from half the people you know to being excommunicated by the church, people would probably think twice.

I'm not a millennial, but my advice to people is to do nothing. Don't block them or hide from them or do anything. Let them do all that if they want.

Just live your life and carry on. If you're truly unaffected, then there's nothing they can do to bother you. If on the other hand, they can still get to you, well, the next best thing is to pretend that they can't, I guess.

Again, by doing something, you show that you care- by blocking them, that's what you're showing everyone. People will talk and gossip, it will get out in that social or family circle who is blocking who and they'll see it clearly.

People, and males in particular, who tend to gossip less, don't realize the extent of what girls say about them when they gossip- what they talk with their girlfriends about in their relationships with men that they don't say to the guy's face. And women often have the advantage here. By blocking them, well, that communicates that someone can get to you. If you're truly over it, it wouldn't bother you and you won't do it- again, if you date a girl you weren't really into, you probably wouldn't block them, you just go on. It's the ones that guys really want that they change their behavior over- and that is the biggest no-no there is. That is what guys have to work on in order to be very, very attractive to women.

Last night it happened again, I see this so often- I was with a female friend and we were out having drinks. Because I'm not interested in her romantically, I am completely at ease with her and I can talk and behave any way I want comfortably, I don't change my behavior- I'm neither trying to impress her, nor am I nervous around her. And she starts giving me all the signals that is getting turned on, she's playing with her hair, re-applying makeup, laughing at everything I am saying and she then she starts showing signs of being nervous, now it's the other way around, and it's like she's wondering what to so say or do so that I am not unimpressed, and her behavior is changing like so many guys do.

And this is all so fluid- it starts setting up a chain reaction that extends beyond my friend and I. While this is going on, other girls in the bar see this interaction, and they actually start coming over to us, and they start bumping me and nudging me and start trying to wedge themselves between us- again, girls are so competitive for your attention when they see other girls with you like this, that indicates them a guy who really is comfortable and successful with women, because there's obviously other girls who think so. And again, I don't change my behavior for them, either. I continue to talk with who I was talking to, and I don't change my behavior.

and of course he's here showing up with his wordy replies which I just have to roll over...

You're still showing that you care then- you're not there. Rather ironic to name a thread 'are we really that sensitive" but give signs that I annoy you or something.

If you have read what I've said, doing nothing and showing that nothing gets to you or modifies your behavior is the key. Be cool as ice- you put no effort into anything. Iceman got the Top Gun trophy, didn't he? Sure. If you don't want to read it, don't. If you do and want to discuss, by all means. But why get annoyed and indicate that? All I'm doing is talking to you guys and it annoys some of you. How do you think women take that when they see how guys are easily agitated? That's not attractive to them, and I keep saying it. And they'll do things to bring that out. They'll start fights, push your buttons or see what makes you lose your cool. Most guys have some threshold that isn't very high and they lose it around women. If you're the guy that no matter what happens you are taking a walk in the park and you always have a wittier comeback, you are in a different league entirely than most males in most social situations.