Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
#4196249 - 11/19/15 02:07 PM Re: Sometimes it just feels wrong.. [Re: OldHat]  
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,436
Winding Man Offline
Member
Winding Man  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,436
Jhb, South Africa
Originally Posted By: OldHat
Problem is that the AI needs to be modified according to the type of plane they fly in order to take advantage of its capabilities better during a dogfight. Now, the AI is only dependent on skill, fatigue and morale regardless of what type of plane it is. Also, you can easily make the AI quit a turn fight (like in your video) by just continuously turning with them. Then, they'll get tired and fly home at the perfect altitude allowing you a good chance to sneak behind and shoot him up. At least he could escape and fly at tree top level to make it harder for you to pursue him or if he was not injured/damaged plane, then he could have went into a pattern of climbing followed by steep dives when he saw that your were approaching from behind in order to try and gain more distance between you and him and make himself a harder target to hit.


Not quite true - the AI is 'trained' to fly each craft within the crafts capability envelope...

There is no intention of opening up WOFF for modding at this moment in time.


WM


OBD Software
#4196267 - 11/19/15 02:43 PM Re: Sometimes it just feels wrong.. [Re: Wodin]  
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 6,819
Polovski Offline
Polovski  Offline

Hotshot

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 6,819
You can "cheat" the game in ANY game, if you micro analyse everything to beat the game, yes you will beat it. For example flying very low in some sims (even older Phase 3) the AI can't get you and you "win".

An AI guy "going home" he is on his own, running for home is doing it for good reasons usually, craft damaged, pilot panicked, pilot wounded, No ammo, fuel, wing about to fall off. In other words really not "normal". Note this is not a normal "navigate home" mode.
He probably won't even see you in that mode, as he is now effectively a novice/rookie. Vision is very impaired, his manoeuvres are much worse, controls may be impaired - use some imagination.

If they are fired at they will dodge only because they really really must even though it may cause them to open a wound/die etc.

Richthofen v Hawker. Hawker did great until he ran away.

How can we make you fatigued from G forces? The AI is getting tired, yes we really modelled that in the sim.

You have to immerse yourself somewhat or don't bother. Maybe you should play it as your life is on the line and you don't want to sit there for 20 mins until the AI is tired ? You are tired too, go fly home.

We could start limiting YOUR fatigue by slowing your controls, roll rate etc. Then we'd get people moaning they can't win the war but of course all these options would cost time and effort for most users wouldn't care and we'd get no extra sales?

We could make the AI fight to the death and remove the cool features in WOFF such as running away, avoiding fights..
then it would be like other sims.




Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4196273 - 11/19/15 02:51 PM Re: Sometimes it just feels wrong.. [Re: Wodin]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,529
DukeIronHand Offline
Hotshot
DukeIronHand  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,529
High over the Front
Well I can say from experience (hard experience!) that the "low flying getaway exploit" has definitely been fixed!

#4196322 - 11/19/15 04:27 PM Re: Sometimes it just feels wrong.. [Re: Wodin]  
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,739
Olham Offline
Barmy Baron from Berlin
Olham  Offline
Barmy Baron from Berlin
Hotshot

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,739
All very good points by Polovski - I recommend to read them all.
If we fly it like it could cost our real life, we would be pleased with far less but victories -
namely by bringing our own saved bum back home, again.
Immersion needs imagination - immerse yourself - imagine the real thing!

Damn, I cannot watch the video - due to copyright reasons/music, it remains banned for me...


Vice-President of the BOC (Barmy OFFers Club)
Member of the 'Albatros Aviators Club' - "We know how to die with Style!"
#4196323 - 11/19/15 04:29 PM Re: Sometimes it just feels wrong.. [Re: Wodin]  
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,739
Olham Offline
Barmy Baron from Berlin
Olham  Offline
Barmy Baron from Berlin
Hotshot

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,739
PS: ...the first time I was REALLY proud about my own achievements in WOFF
was not when I had shot down two in one sortie. It was when I had survived
several tricky missions with nasty encounters - without using any aids.


Vice-President of the BOC (Barmy OFFers Club)
Member of the 'Albatros Aviators Club' - "We know how to die with Style!"
#4196327 - 11/19/15 04:52 PM Re: Sometimes it just feels wrong.. [Re: Wodin]  
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 907
Nietzsche Offline
Member
Nietzsche  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 907
Grevenbroich, Germany
Pol, you mentioned a great Idea in a sub-clause...
Simulating Player's Fatigue by dampening Controls (or similar Things).
If you create an On/Off-Switch in the Workshop for that, nobody would argue...
I think, this would be a huge Plus in Realism.
The "Stamina", needed to do Tough Maneuvers, could be regained over Time, if nothing happens for a While.
You could even do some weird Things with the Head-Tracking / POV, when someone does more than 4 or so tight Circles in a Row...

#4196336 - 11/19/15 05:06 PM Re: Sometimes it just feels wrong.. [Re: Nietzsche]  
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,593
OldHat Offline
Member
OldHat  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,593
Originally Posted By: Nietzsche
Pol, you mentioned a great Idea in a sub-clause...
Simulating Player's Fatigue by dampening Controls (or similar Things).
If you create an On/Off-Switch in the Workshop for that, nobody would argue...
I think, this would be a huge Plus in Realism.
The "Stamina", needed to do Tough Maneuvers, could be regained over Time, if nothing happens for a While.
You could even do some weird Things with the Head-Tracking / POV, when someone does more than 4 or so tight Circles in a Row...


+1 Million... I was just about to write the same thing.

Originally Posted By: Olham

Immersion needs imagination - immerse yourself - imagine the real thing!


Actually, this is true in any game and not just WOFF. I played Zork which required a lot of reading and imagination, but that was not my point. Finding creative solutions to a game's limitation (like what Pol suggested) is what is being discussed and not lack of imagination.

Originally Posted By: Winding Man

Not quite true - the AI is 'trained' to fly each craft within the crafts capability envelope...

There is no intention of opening up WOFF for modding at this moment in time.


I stand corrected on my AI comments and thank you for pointing out that you won't open up WOFF to modding. It's an unfortunate decision, but now your position is very clear.

#4196364 - 11/19/15 05:43 PM Re: Sometimes it just feels wrong.. [Re: Winding Man]  
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,209
Adger Offline
Member
Adger  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,209
Originally Posted By: Winding Man


There is no intention of opening up WOFF for modding at this moment in time.


WM


I noticed WM saying "at this moment in time" OldHat..so hopefully in the future it will be opened up for you to weave your magic


"Vis unita fortior"

"United Strength is Stronger"
#4196406 - 11/19/15 07:36 PM Re: Sometimes it just feels wrong.. [Re: Adger]  
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,944
JJJ65 Offline
Member
JJJ65  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,944
Czech Rep.
Originally Posted By: Adger
Originally Posted By: Winding Man


There is no intention of opening up WOFF for modding at this moment in time.


WM


I noticed WM saying "at this moment in time" OldHat..so hopefully in the future it will be opened up for you to weave your magic


Let us try it again in 2023 old_simmer .

#4196414 - 11/19/15 07:53 PM Re: Sometimes it just feels wrong.. [Re: Wodin]  
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,008
MudWasp Offline
Senior Member
MudWasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,008
a shack in da woods
I've flown with some HAs who amaze me at what they can do. Sometimes I can learn to copy their maneuvers. Sometimes I'm just glad them flying with me in case all hell breaks loose.

#4196438 - 11/19/15 08:41 PM Re: Sometimes it just feels wrong.. [Re: Wodin]  
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,381
Robert_Wiggins Online smile
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
Robert_Wiggins  Online Smile
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,381
Lindsay, Ontario, Canada
I think we could all agree that the discussions in this thread are in no way criticisms of WOFF or indicate shortcomings in the product. The devs aspire to excellence and that is evident by what we see in the product to date. We as users will always aspire to improvement suggestions and it is evident that the size of the development pool is the only limiting factor here. If the Devs had unlimited resources (money and manpower) I'm sure we would be hard pressed to come up with suggestions that they are not already aware of or have considered.

All this said, it is nice to have opinions and aspirations tabled here, as it is always educational.

Just my thoughts....

Best Regards;


(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
Pwr Sup: OCZ, GameXStream,1000-Watt
MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme
Mem: Corsair Vengeance (2x 8GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, Unbuffered
CPU: Intel i7-4770K, OC to 4.427Ghz
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler
Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB
OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD
Monitor: Primary ASUS PG27AQ 4k; Secondary Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L
Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4

#4196460 - 11/19/15 09:31 PM Re: Sometimes it just feels wrong.. [Re: Wodin]  
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 6,819
Polovski Offline
Polovski  Offline

Hotshot

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 6,819
"Finding creative solutions to a game's limitation (like what Pol suggested)"
Actually I was explained why the craft IS going home for all those reasons I mentioned.
I ask that you think of that (which ARE the reasons) and not just see a label that says "going home" and wonder why a perfectly fine pilot doesn't respond. I have told you why - we put those things in fatigue, pilot and craft damage WILL make the pilot less affective - he will drop in skill level and so on.

As WM has said in previous adding all these nice to have perfect features, such as the fatigue feature I mentioned would of course gain a lot of extra work for us, and longer delay to release anything- and likely no extra sales would come to help support that.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4196481 - 11/19/15 10:21 PM Re: Sometimes it just feels wrong.. [Re: Nietzsche]  
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,739
Olham Offline
Barmy Baron from Berlin
Olham  Offline
Barmy Baron from Berlin
Hotshot

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,739
Originally Posted By: Nietzsche
Pol, you mentioned a great Idea in a sub-clause...
Simulating Player's Fatigue by dampening Controls (or similar Things).

You could even do some weird Things with the Head-Tracking / POV, when someone does more than 4 or so tight Circles in a Row...

Naw, please not!
I don't want a sim to take over or eliminate parts of what I can do or can not.


Vice-President of the BOC (Barmy OFFers Club)
Member of the 'Albatros Aviators Club' - "We know how to die with Style!"
#4196619 - 11/20/15 06:56 AM Re: Sometimes it just feels wrong.. [Re: Robert_Wiggins]  
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,944
JJJ65 Offline
Member
JJJ65  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,944
Czech Rep.
Originally Posted By: Robert_Wiggins

...the development pool is the only limiting factor here. If the Devs had unlimited resources (money and manpower)...


Sorry guys, It is still the same song. No offence here, but the Devs clearly reject any support in form of manpower, even free of charge.

#4196626 - 11/20/15 07:44 AM Re: Sometimes it just feels wrong.. [Re: JJJ65]  
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,436
Winding Man Offline
Member
Winding Man  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,436
Jhb, South Africa
Originally Posted By: JJJ65
Originally Posted By: Robert_Wiggins

...the development pool is the only limiting factor here. If the Devs had unlimited resources (money and manpower)...


Sorry guys, It is still the same song. No offence here, but the Devs clearly reject any support in form of manpower, even free of charge.


Yeah sorry we have been down this road many times and been burnt.... relying on 'free help' to produce 'on deadline' and of a 'quality we require' has left us high and dry every time.

So without knowing your abilities and without wanting to lump you in the same boat - we are done with that.
This is a job - a full time job and we are happy with the team stability.

The code is ours and we will develop what we want when we want at our pace - thats capitalism and thats our choice - like it or rant on - we dont really care.

At the moment we are deciding what if anything WOFF Gold may have - again we are making the decision - because we can.

Thanks and I think thats the last I will say on this as we have said it at least 5 times before.


WM

I meant to add something that seemingly no one considers: this is a business for us that supoorts us month to month - 'free help' is the worst kind - there is no 'contractual obligation' and we like to eat.

From now on we will only be reading and where necessary posting in a support role - this is going beyond reasonable to have to say these obvious things - signs of forums all over I guess.

Last edited by Winding Man; 11/20/15 08:07 AM.

OBD Software
#4196637 - 11/20/15 09:23 AM Re: Sometimes it just feels wrong.. [Re: Wodin]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,529
DukeIronHand Offline
Hotshot
DukeIronHand  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,529
High over the Front
*Sigh*
I get what you (OBD) guys are saying and I am in no position to argue - even if I assumed the point needed debating or I disagreed.
It's just like it always feels lately like its the end of an era and that the chapter of simming labeled WOFF is coming to an end.
Unfortunately people (especially new and potential customers) like to feel that the sim they are investing in, both financially and emotionally, is a growing, expanding, improving, vibrant. and dynamic one not one that is being wheeled to the retirement home because it's life is coming to a close.

This is just my opinion based on "feelings" and nothing else. WOFF has always been (and still is) a great, but not perfect sim (what is?) about my favorite historical era. It's just a sad feeling that the sunset seems to have arrived.

#4196642 - 11/20/15 10:09 AM Re: Sometimes it just feels wrong.. [Re: Wodin]  
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,436
Winding Man Offline
Member
Winding Man  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,436
Jhb, South Africa
Many misconceptions have arisen over the last few weeks.
Here are OBDs plans for the future:

1) There will be ongoing addons for WOFF2 - this is a given.

2) We are working on a new non WW1 product - this is a given.

3) We are contemplating a WOFF Gold (WOFF3) and deciding what should be in it if at all.

Item 3) is the only debate going on on our side - in other words we are contemplating is the core WOFF engine done - or do we put more into it.
Not more planes - that falls into category 1) - but more sim engine/system/code functionality.....

Well thats our current roadmap.


WM


OBD Software
#4196643 - 11/20/15 10:11 AM Re: Sometimes it just feels wrong.. [Re: Wodin]  
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 66
hood Offline
Junior Member
hood  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 66
Sydney Australia
I always wait till the dog dies before I bury it.

#4196658 - 11/20/15 10:52 AM Re: Sometimes it just feels wrong.. [Re: Winding Man]  
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,944
JJJ65 Offline
Member
JJJ65  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,944
Czech Rep.
Originally Posted By: Winding Man
Many misconceptions have arisen over the last few weeks.
Here are OBDs plans for the future:

1) There will be ongoing addons for WOFF2 - this is a given.

2) We are working on a new non WW1 product - this is a given.

3) We are contemplating a WOFF Gold (WOFF3) and deciding what should be in it if at all.

Item 3) is the only debate going on on our side - in other words we are contemplating is the core WOFF engine done - or do we put more into it.
Not more planes - that falls into category 1) - but more sim engine/system/code functionality.....

Well thats our current roadmap.


WM



Simple and clear answer finally.
Thank you.

#4196659 - 11/20/15 10:58 AM Re: Sometimes it just feels wrong.. [Re: Wodin]  
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,739
Olham Offline
Barmy Baron from Berlin
Olham  Offline
Barmy Baron from Berlin
Hotshot

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,739
Sounds good for me, Winder, and not like any "end of an era" yet.
May you have good steam all the time!


Vice-President of the BOC (Barmy OFFers Club)
Member of the 'Albatros Aviators Club' - "We know how to die with Style!"
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Polovski 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
Charlie Daniels was 83
by F4UDash4. 07/06/20 08:09 PM
RIP Charlie Daniels
by WangoTango. 07/06/20 05:34 PM
RIP Ennio Morricone, 1928-2020
by semmern. 07/06/20 08:19 AM
Another, Wow! I didn't know that
by Nixer. 07/05/20 01:28 AM
Happy Birthday USA
by oldgrognard. 07/04/20 11:21 AM
I never knew Donald Trump had an airline.
by NoFlyBoy. 07/03/20 11:01 AM
Somme
by Mad Max. 07/01/20 11:28 PM
F-16 Crash
by F4UDash4. 07/01/20 10:24 AM
RIP Cate Archer
by Blade_RJ. 07/01/20 08:58 AM
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0