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#4195898 - 11/18/15 04:52 PM Emergency Jettison vs Ext. Fuel Tanks Jettison?  
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With Emergency Jettison (Ctrl+J): I found out that this will drop the external fuel and ordinance.

I was looking through the key commands for BMS 4.33 I couldnt find anything in the list for just Fuel Tanks Jettison. What is the Key Command for this?

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Last edited by Wedge; 11/18/15 05:11 PM.
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#4195908 - 11/18/15 05:09 PM Re: Emergency Jettison? [Re: Wedge]  
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Anything carted for jettison so tanks, bombs, rocket pods but not missiles.

Selective Jettison (S-J) is OSB#11 on the SMS page.

#4195922 - 11/18/15 05:31 PM Re: Emergency Jettison? [Re: Wedge]  
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Good to know - thanks so much.

Also, what is the proper protocol for dropping fuel tanks - max speed? Do you ever return to base with empty fuel tanks or always jettison before returning to base?

#4195925 - 11/18/15 05:33 PM Re: Emergency Jettison? [Re: Wedge]  
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Originally Posted By: Wedge
Also, what is the proper protocol for dropping fuel tanks - max speed? Do you ever return to base with empty fuel tanks or always jettison before returning to base?


Real World bring em home unless tactical requirements to drop, they cost $$ afterall.

I usually bring my bags home.


"Learning to fly the Falcon is just your ticket to the dance" - Pete 'Boomer' Bonanni.
#4195933 - 11/18/15 05:47 PM Re: Emergency Jettison? [Re: Frederf]  
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Originally Posted By: Frederf
Anything carted for jettison so tanks, bombs, rocket pods but not missiles.

Selective Jettison (S-J) is OSB#11 on the SMS page.


Does selective jettison then override the normal jettison command, as in;

pre-selective jet, the button dumps 'all the heavy stuff'

post-select jet, the jettison command key jets what ever you profiled via the select jet page.


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#4195943 - 11/18/15 06:16 PM Re: Emergency Jettison? [Re: AggressorBLUE]  
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Originally Posted By: AggressorBLUE
Does selective jettison then override the normal jettison command, as in;

pre-selective jet, the button dumps 'all the heavy stuff'

post-select jet, the jettison command key jets what ever you profiled via the select jet page.


In a word, no. The emergency jettison button drops all jettisonable stores, no matter your selection. When you go into the S-J page in the SMS MFD you can see in the lower left of the HUD that the master mode is changed to S-JET. After you select the stations on the MFD, press the pickle button to drop them. Master arm switch needs to be in MASTER ARM. Remember, for some stores you can select only the store or both the store and the pylon to be jettisoned, click the corresponding OSB multiple times and you will see the inverse video highlight reflect this.

As for when to drop them, as Helo_Head said, empty or not you don't drop them unless you really need to IRL.

#4196167 - 11/19/15 08:38 AM Re: Emergency Jettison? [Re: Wedge]  
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PS. regarding dropping the tanks. Even though stores don't cost actual money in BMS, the squadron stores are limited, and I have gotten to a point in one campaign where the 370 gal tanks supply was running low. Fortunately they didn't run out, but that's a thing to watch out for. I'm not entirely sure how squadron stores are set in the BMS Korea theater, but IRL it's possible that a squadron might not have one pair of wing tanks and one centerline tank for each and every aircraft in the squadron, as it's very rare or even downright impossible that every single jet will be in the air at the same time. So you can imagine that if you drop them in every mission they will run out very quickly.

#4196373 - 11/19/15 05:52 PM Re: Emergency Jettison? [Re: Kosmo.]  
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Originally Posted By: Kosmo.
PS. regarding dropping the tanks. Even though stores don't cost actual money in BMS, the squadron stores are limited, and I have gotten to a point in one campaign where the 370 gal tanks supply was running low. Fortunately they didn't run out, but that's a thing to watch out for. I'm not entirely sure how squadron stores are set in the BMS Korea theater, but IRL it's possible that a squadron might not have one pair of wing tanks and one centerline tank for each and every aircraft in the squadron, as it's very rare or even downright impossible that every single jet will be in the air at the same time. So you can imagine that if you drop them in every mission they will run out very quickly.



Wow, that's surprising re the real world part. I'd think every ship would have a set of tanks:

1. If the squadron has to deploy at the drop of a hat, presumably every bird needs a set of tanks for ferry configuration.

2. Even if all aircraft aren't airborne all the time, you'd want to prep the aircraft on the ground so they can be ready to launch.

This would make more sense for the Navy, where tank storage is presumably at more of a premium, but I'd think the USAF would aim for a set of tanks for the whole squadron.


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#4196545 - 11/20/15 01:35 AM Re: Emergency Jettison? [Re: Wedge]  
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To be clear, I'm not talking about the USAF and I'm not even saying I know of a specific airforce that does this. I'm saying I don't consider it improbable. I know that most squadrons of 24 aircraft for example won't have 24 Sniper or HTS or whatever pods. It might be the same for tanks, it might not. An airforce in a country with serious economic concerns might not be able to justify a tank 'set' for each aircraft, or perhaps justify replacing old/destroyed tanks, esp if they don't deploy often or ever. Of course you can say that those are all moot points since we're USAF in the sim, and you'd be right I guess! In any case, if you want to take anything away from this, my main point is that you can run out of fuel tanks in BMS.

#4196670 - 11/20/15 11:42 AM Re: Emergency Jettison? [Re: Wedge]  
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I suppose realistically you might have to wait a few days for more tanks to be sent over in some cases.


If an emergency happens ditch the tanks always........the jet and pilot is infinitely more expensive then drop tanks.....and it's not the end of the world without them.


'Crashing and Burning since 1987'
#4325811 - 01/04/17 08:39 AM Re: Emergency Jettison? [Re: Wedge]  
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Hey sorry to dig up this old thread, but i got two questions regarding dropping the tank(s).

1. concerns real world procedure. You guys wrote you'd only drop them in an emergency situation. How do you define such a situation? Does fighting other fighters, or avoiding anti-air already count as such?

2. How do i know the drop tanks are empty? Is there some indicator, or do i have to know the internal fuel tank mass (7000lbs?) ? Internal fuel is the last fuel to be used in any possible situation, right?

Thanks for your answers..absolute Falcon beginner here

#4325814 - 01/04/17 09:42 AM Re: Emergency Jettison? [Re: Wedge]  
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1. Different depending on SOPs AFAIK. Dropping to engage WVR fights, yes. I'd probably also drop when fired upon even if BVR. Sometimes dropping before rolling into targets as well. Avoiding AAA, well, you don't really need to maneuver much if you're just avoiding flak from 30,000 feet. If you have to drop tanks because you're defensive AAA down low, well, you did something wrong.

2. IIRC, internal fuel is 7200 lbs so if your fuel level is at this level or below, then your wing tanks are empty. To double check, use the knob on the FUEL QTY SEL panel on the bottom of the center console. Check out page 45 of the TO-BMS1F-16CM-1 on your \Docs\Falcon BMS Manuals folder.

Hope that helps and welcome to Falcon BMS!

EDIT:
page 113 of the "Dash 1" manual (the one I pointed to above) states:
Quote:
The F-16 block 50 and block 52 in BMS are able to carry 7162 lbs of JP5/8 fuel internally.


Dual-seat and other F-16 variants will have different internal fuel capacities, obviously... biggrin

Last edited by - Ice; 01/04/17 09:45 AM. Reason: Internal fuel

- Ice
#4325827 - 01/04/17 10:39 AM Re: Emergency Jettison? [Re: Manu]  
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Originally Posted By: Manu

1. concerns real world procedure. You guys wrote you'd only drop them in an emergency situation. How do you define such a situation? Does fighting other fighters, or avoiding anti-air already count as such?


as Ice notes SOP, in practical terms for flight simmers: say you're in online multiplayer flight - flight leads says dump them, like "Combat Jett" etc. - you dump them, otherwise you keep them. Scenarios that require your own discretion, if you are defensive, merged, taken battle damage, system failure, about to run on fumes, or other emergencies you can jett them yourself, and the flight lead definitely won't give you grief ;p so more down to personal preference of you and your flight members more than anything else.


fuel quantity: fuel transfer rates from external wing bags are limited and not sufficient for prolonged AB use so there are times when your total fuel gauge reads <7200lbs but there are actually still some left in them bags. to be absolutely sure after running gate for a long time just toggle the fuel quantity selector (exact name?) and have it show ext fuel quantity. If ya want those fuel just retard back to buster and have them gradually pumped into the internal tanks. But hey, that takes your hands off HOTAS plus precious time, so if defending adder or archer who gives a f*ck about switchology ya know just jett! <- tis bit my own preference, ofc:D

Last edited by Schwalbe; 01/04/17 12:12 PM.
#4325879 - 01/04/17 02:52 PM Re: Emergency Jettison? [Re: Wedge]  
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I usually put the fuelindicator on external tanks during ramp and when empty I pop them off rarely having to think of their being or not when things go hot.
Unlike real life these costs nothing and I haven't noticed any shortage of them either.

I don't think I've ever dropped them during BVR since that's mostly a vector fight.

#4325895 - 01/04/17 04:03 PM Re: Emergency Jettison? [Re: theOden]  
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Originally Posted By: theOden
I usually put the fuelindicator on external tanks during ramp and when empty I pop them off rarely having to think of their being or not when things go hot.


Some vital fuel system functionalities are only there when you put it on NORM like Bingo fuel warnings and internal fuel balance etc. otherwise tis flight safety hazard. should be there in the manual..

I thought about just leaving it on Ext Wing as well when learning these things but nope.


then again that is if u care 'bout these. purely personally i indeed agree that it's all virtual 1s and 0s on a desktop PC, hee:D

Last edited by Schwalbe; 01/04/17 05:07 PM.
#4325949 - 01/04/17 06:56 PM Re: Emergency Jettison? [Re: Wedge]  
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It's a sim so if you want to dump them with the tanks still half-full, go right ahead. If you want to mimic RL procedures, then you will want to bring them home if you can. There was one guy who mentioned that he and his mates would drop tanks because of drag factor, a reasoning which was quickly shot down (ha! get it?) by other forum members with a little more knowledge.

Also with the release of 4.33.2 and 4.33.3, it seems that certain configurations are CAT I even if they include wing tanks, so I guess that means you can keep the tanks on even on a dogfight or doing hard maneuvers? Not really sure about this part as I've not tackled that part of the manual yet....


- Ice
#4325978 - 01/04/17 08:15 PM Re: Emergency Jettison? [Re: - Ice]  
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"RL". sigh. i think beer cans are better. It can be traded for more beers when i sit in front of me PC and have fun.

this was... 2006 now
http://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1771534/Re:_OT:_RL_F-16_with_6_AGM-65'#Post1771534

Originally Posted By: Colt40Five
The "simulated" stabs be damned! My "simulated" logistics and maintenance staff will have a new one on before the next "simulated" mission. smile

Here's my impression of what the "uber realism" crowd deserve in a sim (we'll assume Balkans Camp):

Day 1
First, no time compression. You have to spend an hour in a briefing screen, where you are given all your ident, target intel, tanker, nav, radio, codewords and ROE (let's say a searching alt of 10,000 and an attack alt of 15,000. Only green miltary vehicles may be targeted and if there is a structure within 1000m of yout target you must call for clearance to attack..if you violate this during the mission you can't fly for 2 days in the campaign).

Next you spend 20 mins in a maintenance screen where you look over the logs on your jet and do a "simulated" preflight.

Finally you get into the jet to ramp start. After 30 mins you are scrubbed for weather and told to stand down for the day. You have to leave the sim running until 24 hours has passed. total time elapsed for no flying time: 1h 50m.

Day 2

Repeat all of the above. Take-off. 45 mins to tanker. 20 mins at tanker. 45 mins to target area....nothing there. an AFAC directs you to a lone APC in a revetment on the side of a hill, but by the time you get there weather has socked it in, and you're low on gas. 45 mins back to tanker. 20 mins at tanker. 45 mins back to target area. You see a red vehicle drive into a town and set it on fire and leave. due to your ROE's (which state only green military vehicles can be hit) you call for target approval. After 30 mins ABCCC calls denying permission to attack. 45 mins back to tanker. 20 mins at tanker. 45mins back to home base. Total elapsed time for no ordinance dropped: 8hr 45m.

Day 3

you look at a CSAR alert screen for 12 hours...no calls.


Sound fun?? No, it sounds like work. Like a job that only a highly trained and motivated person would or could do. I don't know about you but I fly falcon for fun in the time I have for such pursuits. I like the feeling that I am learning and employing real-world systems and tactics, but in the end I know it's a far cry from what it actually takes to leave my family and friends for months and strap on the jet everyday and get shot at.

So while you decry that some of us want what YOU consider an unrealistic mav loadout. Ask yourself where is your "reality" threshold?


ya know, nowadays this isn't really that far off from what the "uber realism" crowd calls for. but if you can sit 12 hours in front of your gaming box.. i say get a job first, like maybe apply for the real air force, and stop living off of government pension so you can play video games.
^ right, this doesn't mean for any person in particular ofc, but sometimes it gets ridiculous when every 1 in 3 statements says "in RL". in RL, it is a bloody video game, that's the hardcore down to earth as real as it gets.

Last edited by Schwalbe; 01/04/17 08:32 PM.
#4326110 - 01/05/17 08:16 AM Re: Emergency Jettison? [Re: Wedge]  
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Hehehe.... don't hate on the reference to RL. We are playing "pretend fighter pilot" and that includes terminology and radio comms, overhead breaks, formation flying, etc.... and hopefully include "wing tank discipline" biggrin

Sure, you can play as you want and "waste" airframes knowing your next "refresh" or resupply is just around the corner. Or you can play a little more realistic and try to bring an injured airframe back home. Some people can't be bothered and eject as soon as their aircraft is hit, some people see the new situation as a challenge to employ less-used skills and start accessing less-used backup systems.


- Ice
#4326166 - 01/05/17 01:05 PM Re: Emergency Jettison vs Ext. Fuel Tanks Jettison? [Re: Wedge]  
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Well I thought beer bottles are very RL since if i bring 'em back, I can trade them for more beers, but if they are dumped to the trash, that's value lost.

Not dumping batteries is also realistic. If dumped without care, they are an environmental hazard. So is not dumping in-decomposable plastic bags realistic. They are still being used and cause all kinds of trouble for animals. Reminds me. right. A few years ago, thousands of dead pigs were dumped into the Yangtze river, which floated down stream and surfaced near Shanghai. Again, huge environmental hazard. I think the reporting on sina Weibo is one of the factors that lead to massive censorship on the micro-blogging platform too. Since ya know this here is also an internet forum and free expression is important.

Anyway, the next time I did dump, or withheld from dumping, fuel tanks from a F-16, so that taxpayer money is saved either in the form of brought back fuel tank, or avoiding potential aircraft loss due to degraded maneuverability from external stores, I will let you know. It hasn't happened yet, therefore so far I really can't say it's realistic or not. If you're a real Viper pilot and says it is or it is not, well above all f*ck you for getting my dream job. But hey, nowadayz I have my own job, which I do have to do. More importantly, I don't see the point of boasting about it on the forums telling everyone how l33t I am on pretending to do yours, or how the other guy's is to be looked down upon since he's not all that l33t. You know, since we are all pretending, does it matter?

#4326233 - 01/05/17 06:18 PM Re: Emergency Jettison vs Ext. Fuel Tanks Jettison? [Re: Wedge]  
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You lost me on the beer bottles and batteries bit.

As for dumping the fuel tanks, like I said, it depends. Bring back the aircraft but lose the tanks? Then dump 'em. Got a blip on your radar and a bogey call 40 miles out? They stay on. As Boomer stated:
Quote:
Real World bring em home unless tactical requirements to drop, they cost $$ afterall


Bottom line: It's a sim and you can play the way you want to. The recent poster asked about "real world procedure" and that's why we're talking about RL.


You can say:
"Hey buddy, I have a dot on my radar 30 miles out to our left, about 30-40 degrees to our left. He's a bit high... let me see, about 5K higher than us. It looks like he's heading towards us... might be one guy but I can't be sure."

Or you can say:
"Lead, 2 has contact bullseys 045, 70 miles, 30 thousand, hot."

Since we're all pretending, which one sounds like a better pretend pilot? Personally, I'd go for the 2nd one. It all depends on how much you want to pretend... and yeah, I know there are some out there that fly with a flight suit and gloves and helmet on! biggrin I wonder if they do piddle packs as well? While we may not fly "full real" as Colt40Five states above, I'm sure we try to fit in as much as we can with the free time that we have.


- Ice
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