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#4195405 - 11/17/15 05:26 AM
Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS
[Re: tirta]
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 313
robmypro
Member
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Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 313
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I do not understand why after all these years,
dcs developer does not feel the need to make dynamic campaign,
instead we get those static boring campaign.
Dynamic campaign is the reason why I still play bms, eech and ef2000,
and why I do not play dcs anymore. It is a massive undertaking. And I do mean massive.
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#4195412 - 11/17/15 05:59 AM
Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS
[Re: theOden]
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 313
robmypro
Member
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Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 313
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Ice, that was one of the best BMS/DCS comparisons I've read in a very long time.
Spot on. No kidding. Might be the best I have read.
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#4195437 - 11/17/15 09:03 AM
Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS
[Re: robmypro]
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 410
VT-51_Razor
Member
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Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 410
Central Point, Oregon, US of A...
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Thank you Ice, and all the rest for the quick answers. Maybe I'll give this a look. 
People in aviation who think they know it all, are particularly annoying to those of us who really do Razor Air Group 51
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#4195559 - 11/17/15 03:45 PM
Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS
[Re: robmypro]
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,462
AggressorBLUE
Check out my
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Check out my
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,462
Jerz
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I do not understand why after all these years,
dcs developer does not feel the need to make dynamic campaign,
instead we get those static boring campaign.
Dynamic campaign is the reason why I still play bms, eech and ef2000,
and why I do not play dcs anymore. It is a massive undertaking. And I do mean massive. One that ThirdWire, the Falcon team, and the devs behind the forthcoming Combat Air Patrol 2 have all managed to work into their sims.
My Rig:i5-3570k @ 4.2 GHZ W/ Corsair Hydro H110 Cooler / Asus Sabertooth Z77 Mobo / GTX 1070/ 16 Gigs DDR3 RAM / A Few SSDs, and a Bunch of HDDs / All held together by: Corsair C70 Case Other Assets Deployed: HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog SN#22621/CH Throttle Quad/MFG Crosswind Pedals SN#0004  TrackIR TIR 5 w/ TrackClip Pro  Simpit: Obutto R3VOLUTION
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#4195565 - 11/17/15 03:58 PM
Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS
[Re: robmypro]
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,462
AggressorBLUE
Check out my
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Check out my
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,462
Jerz
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Reading Ices post, it dawned on me how truly misguided ED is with DCS. The latest update from ED (DCSW 1.5) took the one thing DCS has over Falcon, visual fidelity, and further re-enforced that. And that's really an issue. The team took the one thing that they (by comparison) already had locked down, and choose to keep focusing on that. Kind of like repainting your house for the second time in a year, despite half the roof missing. Yes, that new coat of paint is lovely, but it's clearly not the most pressing issue. Having said that, I do think the arrival of new theaters and aircraft, will even things out a bit. If you compare the city visuals in BMS with those in Nellis previews, to me BMS suddenly is "sterile" in it's own way. Flying low level over cities in BMS quickly sours the illusion. Of course, if they can pull off auto-gen building next, that'll be quite a game changer (auto-gen trees already make mountain flying a much different experience!). Then again, Flying over cities in BMS is still better than DCS, since as of this writing I can at least DO IT in BMS. And yeah, I know as a good little simmer I'm not supposed to think visuals make a difference, but, they do. Sorry. They can't wholly compensate for lacking in other areas, but great visuals can provide awesome immersion, especially for low level flying. To be clear, I still see BMS as the dominant platform. ED's just way to misguided in their approach, and needs to mature a bit with regards to direction and prioritization.
My Rig:i5-3570k @ 4.2 GHZ W/ Corsair Hydro H110 Cooler / Asus Sabertooth Z77 Mobo / GTX 1070/ 16 Gigs DDR3 RAM / A Few SSDs, and a Bunch of HDDs / All held together by: Corsair C70 Case Other Assets Deployed: HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog SN#22621/CH Throttle Quad/MFG Crosswind Pedals SN#0004 TrackIR TIR 5 w/ TrackClip Pro Simpit: Obutto R3VOLUTION
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#4195576 - 11/17/15 04:49 PM
Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS
[Re: tirta]
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,840
ricnunes
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,840
Portugal
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I do not understand why after all these years,
dcs developer does not feel the need to make dynamic campaign,
instead we get those static boring campaign.
Dynamic campaign is the reason why I still play bms, eech and ef2000,
and why I do not play dcs anymore. There is currently a thread about the subject going on the DCS SimHQ room. In that thread there's even a member of ED participating on it (despite he claims not to be an ED member on his "profile signature") and after all the feedback from that thread which curiously started because of a pool made by ED (on their own forum) where they asked which new feature would players like to have the most in the future in DCS and in where "Dynamic Campaign" clearly won with a quite big advantage over all other features, I can only see one unique reason for ED not wanting to make a dynamic campaign for DCS: - Pure and sheer stubbornness!
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#4195581 - 11/17/15 05:05 PM
Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS
[Re: AggressorBLUE]
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,840
ricnunes
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,840
Portugal
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One that ThirdWire, the Falcon team, and the devs behind the forthcoming Combat Air Patrol 2 have all managed to work into their sims.
I fully agree as well. Also to complement there are other examples of third party people/players that added/created very good dynamic campaign system to games that either didn't have them or had somehow limited dynamic campaign systems. Examples of this are Lowengrin's DGC for IL2 and OFF/WOFF which is a WWI mod for CFS3 centered around a completely new dynamic campaign system. These campaign examples were made by a single person (or 2 or 3 tops) on his/their spare time and for free. Therefore saying that a quite big company such as ED can't do a dynamic campaign system for DCS because is a "massive undertaking" isn't likely the truth.
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#4195582 - 11/17/15 05:12 PM
Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS
[Re: robmypro]
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 808
Member
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Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 808
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Lol ed for 10 years can not release final complete version of any module.Everything is infinite beta. And you talk about the dynamic campaign?  Sure ,will be released for ~ 10 years, the beta of course.
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#4195591 - 11/17/15 05:28 PM
Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS
[Re: robmypro]
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,169
MigBuster
Member
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Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,169
UK
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So to summarise
DCS does some things better than BMS
BMS does some things better than DCS
Other sims do some things better than the above
right debate over....
'Crashing and Burning since 1987'
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#4195595 - 11/17/15 05:42 PM
Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS
[Re: MigBuster]
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 110
amnwrx
Member
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Member
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 110
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So to summarise
DCS does some things better than BMS
BMS does some things better than DCS
Other sims do some things better than the above
right debate over....
This! Play them all! If you don't have a lot of extra time to play "games", after trying both pick the one that suits you the most. I personally go through phases. The guys at BMS continue to make an unmatched f-16 sim building on an awesome existing campaign engine using dated software that usually runs like a top. ED appeares to be going for a broader approach. My interpretation is they are building a base for bigger and better things. If they pan out remains to be seen.
Last edited by amnwrx; 11/17/15 05:51 PM.
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#4195606 - 11/17/15 05:57 PM
Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS
[Re: AggressorBLUE]
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 99
Davemetalhead
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 99
Abingdon, Oxon.
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Reading Ices post, it dawned on me how truly misguided ED is with DCS. The latest update from ED (DCSW 1.5) took the one thing DCS has over Falcon, visual fidelity, and further re-enforced that. And that's really an issue. The team took the one thing that they (by comparison) already had locked down, and choose to keep focusing on that. Kind of like repainting your house for the second time in a year, despite half the roof missing. Yes, that new coat of paint is lovely, but it's clearly not the most pressing issue. Having said that, I do think the arrival of new theaters and aircraft, will even things out a bit. If you compare the city visuals in BMS with those in Nellis previews, to me BMS suddenly is "sterile" in it's own way. Flying low level over cities in BMS quickly sours the illusion. Of course, if they can pull off auto-gen building next, that'll be quite a game changer (auto-gen trees already make mountain flying a much different experience!). Then again, Flying over cities in BMS is still better than DCS, since as of this writing I can at least DO IT in BMS. And yeah, I know as a good little simmer I'm not supposed to think visuals make a difference, but, they do. Sorry. They can't wholly compensate for lacking in other areas, but great visuals can provide awesome immersion, especially for low level flying. To be clear, I still see BMS as the dominant platform. ED's just way to misguided in their approach, and needs to mature a bit with regards to direction and prioritization. ED didn't just concentrate on the visuals with the latest update, it's a new game engine complete with upgrade to DX-11. Many have already commented on improved performance, so to say that ED only focused on the visuals is disengenous.
Part time poster
Full time lurker
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#4195616 - 11/17/15 06:26 PM
Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS
[Re: Davemetalhead]
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 7,033
komemiute
Hell Drummer
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Hell Drummer
Hotshot
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 7,033
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Reading Ices post, it dawned on me how truly misguided ED is with DCS. The latest update from ED (DCSW 1.5) took the one thing DCS has over Falcon, visual fidelity, and further re-enforced that. And that's really an issue. The team took the one thing that they (by comparison) already had locked down, and choose to keep focusing on that. Kind of like repainting your house for the second time in a year, despite half the roof missing. Yes, that new coat of paint is lovely, but it's clearly not the most pressing issue. Having said that, I do think the arrival of new theaters and aircraft, will even things out a bit. If you compare the city visuals in BMS with those in Nellis previews, to me BMS suddenly is "sterile" in it's own way. Flying low level over cities in BMS quickly sours the illusion. Of course, if they can pull off auto-gen building next, that'll be quite a game changer (auto-gen trees already make mountain flying a much different experience!). Then again, Flying over cities in BMS is still better than DCS, since as of this writing I can at least DO IT in BMS. And yeah, I know as a good little simmer I'm not supposed to think visuals make a difference, but, they do. Sorry. They can't wholly compensate for lacking in other areas, but great visuals can provide awesome immersion, especially for low level flying. To be clear, I still see BMS as the dominant platform. ED's just way to misguided in their approach, and needs to mature a bit with regards to direction and prioritization. ED didn't just concentrate on the visuals with the latest update, it's a new game engine complete with upgrade to DX-11. Many have already commented on improved performance, so to say that ED only focused on the visuals is disengenous. Concur, and from the looks of it- they ARE taking an interest in the DC. All in all it's just a matter of *Groan* waiting. Pun. 
"Himmiherrgottksakramentzefixhallelujah!"
Para_Bellum
"It takes forever +/- 2 weeks for the A-10 to get anywhere significant..."
Ice
"Ha! If it gets him on the deck its a start!"
MigBuster
"What people like and what critics praise are rarely the same thing. 'Critic' is just another one of those unnecessary, overpaid, parasitic jobs that the human race has churned out so that clever slackers won't have to actually get a real job and possibly soil their hands."
Sauron
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#4195633 - 11/17/15 07:07 PM
Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS
[Re: robmypro]
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 850
toonces
Member
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Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 850
Honolulu, Hawaii
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I'm actually a Falcon 4 fanboy, but I'll take the devil's advocate approach to this one.
Where DCS really shows potential is its modular capability from the ground up, something BMS simply cannot do. That's not to say that I haven't spent plenty of time enjoying the hell out of myself in other jets in Falcon. But let's be honest here, the other flyables are poor substitutes for a second study-level aircraft in BMS.
Furthermore, DCS is at least trying to bring a ground component into their game with Combined Arms. Sure it's fairly arcade right now, but it's leaps beyond any other ground modeling in a flight combat sim of which I'm aware.
The lack of a dynamic campaign holds DCS back from the gameplay perspective. But then again, ARMA 3 doesn't come with a dynamic campaign (not including the mods) and yet it is still highly regarded as an excellent sim. I could make a similar argument for Steel Beasts.
I prefer BMS because at the end of the day I want to play a game on my computer. The game aspect is where DCS simply doesn't do a good job. I'd argue that DCS has far more potential as a simulator than BMS, but the fact of the matter is that most people have no idea how to fully utilize the potential of a simulation like DCS.
"A week or even a month for someone basically saying "shucks, this is pants" maybe. But their banhammer only has the forever setting. Gotta set phasers to stun for the localization of female undergarments, not kill yo." - Frederf
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#4195637 - 11/17/15 07:10 PM
Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS
[Re: robmypro]
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 850
toonces
Member
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Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 850
Honolulu, Hawaii
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If I could get 100 like-minded, skilled people together, I could use DCS to conduct no-kiddng real-world military training in combined arms warfare. I'm still amazed that such a product exists that we hobbyists can buy.
We could run something similar in BMS, and with some suspension of disbelief could also do excellent training, but not combined arms like you can in DCS.
"A week or even a month for someone basically saying "shucks, this is pants" maybe. But their banhammer only has the forever setting. Gotta set phasers to stun for the localization of female undergarments, not kill yo." - Frederf
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#4195643 - 11/17/15 07:23 PM
Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS
[Re: robmypro]
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 850
toonces
Member
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Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 850
Honolulu, Hawaii
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Well I agree.
I love ARMA 3 and have a couple hundred hours in it on Steam. Unfortunately almost all of that time is in playing online on the King of the Hill server, a decidedly unrealistic portrayal of modern warfare.
I do love detailed simulations. But at the end of the day I want to be entertained. Finding that compromise can be challenging for developers I guess.
I think ED would sell a lot more kit if they'd take a step back and redirect their focus on the game aspect and less on the study aspect. Like crafting a dynamic campaign and pumping out some FC3-level aircraft that don't require such an investment in time to enjoy.
"A week or even a month for someone basically saying "shucks, this is pants" maybe. But their banhammer only has the forever setting. Gotta set phasers to stun for the localization of female undergarments, not kill yo." - Frederf
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#4195653 - 11/17/15 07:44 PM
Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS
[Re: robmypro]
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,790
Smokin_Hole
Member
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Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,790
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I enjoy them both and waffle back and forth between the two. BMS is generally more entertaining, much more so in MP. DCS is a wee bit prettier and flight is a little closer to reality. 4.33 has really closed the gap. And even silly things like the AV-8B are surprisingly fun. There is probably so much more under the hood in DCS but to an unsophisticate like me, all this attention to detail is lost. I don't care if elastic tension forces are modeled on the swashplate. I just want to be fed the illusion that I am in the air above a full and changing battlefield spraying lead and instilling fear in friend and foe alike. What BMS also teaches is how unimportant highly detailed terrain modeling really is. These new high res tiles are stunning enough even down low. Skim the trees with a Mirage and you will find it every bit as satisfying as doing the same over 1.5 Georgia. But what I look forward to the most with BMS, is returning to the campaign night after night to see the progress. I used to log onto the Falcon Online server just to see how "we" are doing and maybe play AWACS for 15 minutes. Such joy will NEVER be possible with DCS.
Last edited by Smokin_Hole; 11/17/15 07:45 PM.
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Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
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