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#4192110 - 11/08/15 02:31 AM Re: LN and their 2 modules this year. [Re: VincentLaw]  
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Mustang60348 Offline
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Originally Posted By: VincentLaw
Originally Posted By: Mustang60348
WOW, you completely misunderstand.


And you are misinformed. Leatherneck knows that issuing more activations is not a sustainable solution. They are working on a fix, but I doubt they will bother telling anyone here that for a while now.

Originally Posted By: Cobra847
To find a permanent fix for the erroneous request for activation (regardless of changed hardware) - we are working to implement a fix that reduces the frequency of this error.


a solution to reduce the frequency of this error, are you freaking kidding me. I have all the modules the Mig 21 is the only one that does this ever. I have even upgraded my Motherboard about 5 months ago and the only module that sneezed at it was the Mig 21, no other module did. IOW, whatever hash the CP is using to determine a hardware change is set too aggressive in the Mig 21

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4192111 - 11/08/15 02:31 AM Re: LN and their 2 modules this year. [Re: Mustang60348]  
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VincentLaw Offline
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ED Forums
Originally Posted By: Mustang60348
Actually Customer service can be MUCH better


You are talking about quality assurance, not customer service. Those are two different things.

#4192112 - 11/08/15 02:34 AM Re: LN and their 2 modules this year. [Re: VincentLaw]  
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Mustang60348 Offline
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Originally Posted By: VincentLaw
Originally Posted By: Mustang60348
Actually Customer service can be MUCH better


You are talking about quality assurance, not customer service. Those are two different things.


You are so wrong.

"Customer service is the service provided to customers before, during and after purchasing and using goods and services. Good customer service provides an experience that meets customer expectations. It produces satisfied customers."

I wonder how you would feel if you bought a car and it refused to start each morning. When you contacted the dealer, they sent a person out to get your car started. I feel fairly certain you would complain about their Customer Service.

This is the thing about computer games, people seem to be willing to put up with a lot more from devs than from any other type of service. Then again, I had a guy here a couple of weeks ago tell me the devs were analogous to his best friend, so what you are you going to do.

Last edited by Mustang60348; 11/08/15 02:42 AM.
#4192113 - 11/08/15 02:36 AM Re: LN and their 2 modules this year. [Re: Cobra847]  
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Mustang60348 Offline
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Nicholas

I am going to ask you the most serious question I have ever asked you.

Is Starforce really worth the time and aggravation to you and your customers.

#4192126 - 11/08/15 03:56 AM Re: LN and their 2 modules this year. [Re: Cobra847]  
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Flogger23m Offline
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Originally Posted By: Cobra847

How, exactly, am I supposed to respond to a post completely misrepresenting our customer support and asserting that the F-14 should be given away for free because the activation key has to be reentered at certain points?

Actually, not at all, is the appropriate answer. I've finally had my eureka moment.

I finally bow out.


Maybe customer service standards are lower in your country. Typically when something significant is wrong with the product more is done than a half baked fixed. Especially seeing that the MIG-21 module has been out for well over a year now. I'd say issues with activating the product are rather significant. Even in the game industry we've seen other companies who released products with glaring issues (Ubisoft, WB Games) take big steps to remedy the problem.

And I'm sorry that I don't subscribe to your threads. The majority of your customers likely never visit the forums and will never know of these fixes or procedures. Perhaps updating the store page and notifying potential customers of activation complications would be a good step forward.

#4192139 - 11/08/15 04:46 AM Re: LN and their 2 modules this year. [Re: Mustang60348]  
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nadal Offline
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I understand your frustration but asking for free copy of their next flagship module is a bit harsh for smaller developer company imo.

#4192150 - 11/08/15 05:48 AM Re: LN and their 2 modules this year. [Re: nadal]  
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Flogger23m Offline
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Originally Posted By: nadal
I understand your frustration but asking for free copy of their next flagship module is a bit harsh for smaller developer company imo.


I think the ideal step forward is to let potential customers know about possible activation problems. I have not added it to my cart so I don't know if they currently do this. DRM and account related things have been annoying me a lot this past week. If overbearing DRM works it is one thing, but asking someone to buy a game with limited activations only for it to have problems for so long is a bad business practice. And requires some additional steps make good on it with their customers. This is just my opinion and I am not just referring to LN or anything DCS related.

#4192167 - 11/08/15 08:01 AM Re: LN and their 2 modules this year. [Re: Mustang60348]  
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Crowley Offline
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I work in the construction industry where 'down to the anchor bolts' is very similar to software developing. A design is made, things start getting built based on said design and changes usually happen; several or a hundred times before it's completed. A huge majority of people know nothing about coding (I know how to do simple stuff) or construction. Almost everyone thinks things can be change because it's "common these days". This is obviously not the case. Sure, things can be added and/or replaced, but that takes time and resources depending on the SIZE of these changes. That also costs additional money; redoing the work, ordering more/new materials to complete said work, etc. Nothing is "common" these days since that word means nothing anymore. There is no 'common sense', just nonsense.

I am a CAD draftsman (Computer Aided Drafting) with 20 years experience and I know it takes one idiot (CEO/boss/client) to decide "Lets do this because I had a 'vision'" can add 50-100%+ more time on a project than normal because they think someone can 'click a button' & it's done. That happens to me almost on a daily basis. "We need this job completed yesterday, but we can only send you the files tomorrow" type of deal.

Unless all of the complainers know "so much more" than these 'developers' (at least in your own opinion) and can do a better job, I suggest you complainers create a better simulator for cheaper (like free as some have suggested), that will also be a competitor against DCS.

I'll agree, to a point, that I don't like what DCS is doing. But maybe that's due to my age & short fuse for 'beta/early release' games/modules/etc. But that technically has nothing to do with 3rd party developers, but THAT is because I know how contracts work (I did plenty of freelance work). Company A (DCS) hires Company B to do "this", all B does is the work they were told/contracted to do. Only DCS & the 3rd parties know what that contract says, they will most likely not provide proof.


Gaming System: W7 64bit, AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz, ASUS M5A99X EVO, CORSAIR XMS3 8GB, GeForce GTX 960 4GB, Kingston HyperX 3K 120gb SSD(OS), 2 WD 1TB 7200rpm (Gaming)
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#4192171 - 11/08/15 08:46 AM Re: LN and their 2 modules this year. [Re: Mustang60348]  
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Paradaz Offline
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That's way overboard Crowley. The point here is that this module is the only one with an activation problem. ED and the other devs obviously have a slighly different or less aggressive mechanism.......so it should be a very easy issue that requires minimal resources to find a solution.

LN shouldn't be looking for a fix that reduces the frequency of this issue. They should be finding the fix full-stop as it isn't a common problem that any other dev has and the expertise is obviously out there. It's also in EDs interest (or should be) that this problem is put to bed.


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4192213 - 11/08/15 01:15 PM Re: LN and their 2 modules this year. [Re: Paradaz]  
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Remon Offline
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Originally Posted By: Paradaz
That's way overboard Crowley. The point here is that this module is the only one with an activation problem. ED and the other devs obviously have a slighly different or less aggressive mechanism.......so it should be a very easy issue that requires minimal resources to find a solution.

LN shouldn't be looking for a fix that reduces the frequency of this issue. They should be finding the fix full-stop as it isn't a common problem that any other dev has and the expertise is obviously out there. It's also in EDs interest (or should be) that this problem is put to bed.


I thought the point was how LN wasn't going to release two modules this year?

Force10, can you please explain the going off topic rules? They don't seem to apply the same way to every post...

#4192214 - 11/08/15 01:18 PM Re: LN and their 2 modules this year. [Re: Mustang60348]  
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Speyer Offline
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Regardless, and I have the same issues with the MiG 21, and ONLY the MiG 21, seemingly driving a dev away from the forum doesn't seem like the best course of action but there you go.

#4192221 - 11/08/15 01:54 PM Re: LN and their 2 modules this year. [Re: Remon]  
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Paradaz Offline
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Originally Posted By: Remon


I thought the point was how LN wasn't going to release two modules this year?

Force10, can you please explain the going off topic rules? They don't seem to apply the same way to every post...


We're all concerned that this activation issue may also affect LN's two modules they're potentially announcing this year. smile


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4192250 - 11/08/15 04:01 PM Re: LN and their 2 modules this year. [Re: Speyer]  
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Originally Posted By: Speyer
Regardless, and I have the same issues with the MiG 21, and ONLY the MiG 21, seemingly driving a dev away from the forum doesn't seem like the best course of action but there you go.

He chose to walk away rather than face the criticism that his product warrants. To put a "beta" tag on a product does not exclude it from criticism if money has changed hands especially if that product has an issue that has not been resolved for over a year. I think all the 3rd parties and a lot of folk need to realize that. I don't care about the f14 or the other 2 modules, it will be a very long time before I spend anymore money on a dcs product. I want the product I have already paid for to work. If a developer can't understand that he is in the wrong business or he simply does not care about his customers.


DCS Kickstarter
Wags July 2014 "In this July 2014 update, the primary news is in regards to the restructured backer rewards. After a careful review of the older system under RRG, we found it financially unattainable."
Wags October 2017 "the investment vs. generated revenue has been excellent for the World War II aircraft. In fact, the P-51D Mustang has twice the cost effectiveness of the A-10C Warthog."
#4192340 - 11/08/15 08:07 PM Re: LN and their 2 modules this year. [Re: Flogger23m]  
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nadal Offline
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Originally Posted By: Flogger23m
Originally Posted By: nadal
I understand your frustration but asking for free copy of their next flagship module is a bit harsh for smaller developer company imo.


I think the ideal step forward is to let potential customers know about possible activation problems. I have not added it to my cart so I don't know if they currently do this. DRM and account related things have been annoying me a lot this past week. If overbearing DRM works it is one thing, but asking someone to buy a game with limited activations only for it to have problems for so long is a bad business practice. And requires some additional steps make good on it with their customers. This is just my opinion and I am not just referring to LN or anything DCS related.



I might be wrong but doesn't it re-store the activation(s) every month or week?
So that we actually have unlimited activation...?

#4192387 - 11/08/15 10:10 PM Re: LN and their 2 modules this year. [Re: Mustang60348]  
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Speyer Offline
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If you email them they send you a new key with another ten activations it seems.

#4192397 - 11/08/15 10:48 PM Re: LN and their 2 modules this year. [Re: Mustang60348]  
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bogusheadbox Offline
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Maybe i am missing something here.

But there does seem to be an overabundance of pitchforks and torches on this issue.

Ok, there is an activation problem. Cobra has advised that they are working on a fix, to which i believe some have misinterpreted his response.

And if that fails, its written here that you just need to email for more activations. I think that is acceptable, so i don't understand the intense focus on this.


However before cobra, bowed out in a huff, i have to say i am a tad disappointed he made a sweeping generalisation of negativity towards the entirety of SimHQ. I believe that could have been handled in a more professional manner.


Fighterops...

The only TRUE Stealth crowd funded game.

Devs said there was stuff there, but you just couldn't see it.
#4192466 - 11/09/15 01:26 AM Re: LN and their 2 modules this year. [Re: Mustang60348]  
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Frederf Offline
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Kinda-sorta the point of the open beta branch is to feel free to allow a lower grade of QA during development. It's a development branch rife with errors by nature.

The confusion is coming from the "1.5 is out!" crowd when it isn't.

I'm happy if LN continues to develop the best aircraft modules they can, working on partial project and developing new ones at an appropriate rate.

#4192495 - 11/09/15 03:10 AM Re: LN and their 2 modules this year. [Re: Mustang60348]  
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Ark Offline
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Never had any issues with LN, their customer service or their DRM.


Ark

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#4192517 - 11/09/15 04:15 AM Re: LN and their 2 modules this year. [Re: Speyer]  
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Flogger23m Offline
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Originally Posted By: Speyer
If you email them they send you a new key with another ten activations it seems.


I can't say how LN handles it, but when I did it for an ED product they said they won't refill activations. Essentially you have to drain it to 0. Then after a month you will gain an activation. Each month after that you will gain one more. Swap out some hardware or the DRM has a bug and I assume you're back to 0 and must wait again. Depending on how frequently you change hardware/software you might be in a frequent locked out phase.

Deactivating my modules before my recent SSD installation and then reactivating after I was done depleted 1 activation on all my modules. Meaning the system certainly doesn't work too well.

#4192535 - 11/09/15 06:25 AM Re: LN and their 2 modules this year. [Re: Mustang60348]  
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Maico Offline
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The holidays are coming. People will take time off. I don't expect to see any new modules until after Christmas or New Years. That is a shame.
I can only speak for my experience with ED customer support. I wrote an email. Got response the next day. I sent another email. A couple of days later got a fix. The people were very friendly. I restrained from being pushy or critical in spite of my frustration at the time. In the end, I was very pleased.
I hope LN continues to provide customer support in the form of keys. I now have the MiG-21 locked out like everyone who did the latest update. NOT COOL, but as long as LN don't deny me keys to my product, I will put up with this. Why? Because MiG-21 is just such a good module. I hope they make more modules. But I don't expect anything soon.
Flogger, you having to wait for a month to get ED to help you is BS. You should write a email to the admins or someone. This is bad business. It is ridiculous to have a customer wait a month for something he already paid for.
Having said that and speaking in general terms, always be polite when you ask for help. If you are the angry poster, you can bet your bottom dollar they will put you in the back burner. I like to begin with "Please" and end with "Thank You". So far, I have had good luck with ED.
P.S. If I ran LN, I would be very careful who I sent out to represent my products. You don't send a guy with a whip to put down a lynch mob. Cobra needs to address the issues. Ok, say you are offended, BUT ADDRESS THE ISSUES. Its your product, you want to keep the customers happy.

Last edited by Maico; 11/09/15 06:31 AM.

Maico
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