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#4191409 - 11/06/15 10:16 AM Gazelle "might" get multicrew  
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straycat Offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeGordian View Post
I just wanted to ask if there are any news on that now that multicrew-multiplayer seems to be around the corner. Will it be feasible to add to the Gazelle? Obviously, there are possible sources which could prevent this, so I thought it would be worth to check.



Quote:
@ LeGordian:
We are not giving away anything to the community about that particular question. I am sorry.
We will announce anything if new to this as soon there is something to present.
Even if we knew some time scale it is not up to us to promote such functionality as it is a mature change ED will aquire first.
We thank you for your honest comprehension
Sven


I thought multicrew was a mandatory feature for modules than naturally are supposed to have it.
Sounds like they might skip it if it is "too hard", like VEAO did.

I mean why even start a module that needs it, without knowing if they can do it? Especially on teh gazelle it is critical, because, at least from the looks of it, to use the missiles it requires a dedicated gunner to use the camera, and its not possible for the pilot to use the weapons alone like in the huey.

DCS is stuck with multicrew on the L39 at the least that might come out some time in 2016-2017 whenever ED feels like completing it. And the other teams trailing behind. At least on LN and BST we can be sure they will have it.



What is interesting how all teams seem to wait for ED to complete it, however a tester admitted the functionality is there and it is not ED holding them back. The wording ranges from "will be ready when ED has it" (BST) to "help the walls are closing in" (VEAO)

(not exact quotes)


So when did DCS slip from shipping complete products with minor beta issues to open ended early access? Seriously what the #%&*$# is wrong with them? Looks like supreme levels of crap project management.

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#4191419 - 11/06/15 10:48 AM Re: Gazelle "might" get multicrew [Re: straycat]  
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Originally Posted By: straycat



So when did DCS slip from shipping complete products with minor beta issues to open ended early access? Seriously what the #%&*$# is wrong with them? Looks like supreme levels of crap project management.


You really need to calm down a bit about this computer game mate. wink

What I read into this is that the devs simply can't give hard infos about multi-crew until it has been implemented by ED in the first place. Nothing more, nothing less.

And why start developing a multi-crew aircraft without the ability to multi-crew in the first place? Uhmm... why not? I seriously doubt the vast majority of DCS players will play such modules exclusively in MP with another human anyway. Look at the Huey: a multi-crew helicopter that works just fine without the multi-crew feature. Give me an AI autopilot with a couple of basic functions such as level flight, hover, pop up, and the Gazelle should work well enough even without multi-crew.


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#4191430 - 11/06/15 11:41 AM Re: Gazelle "might" get multicrew [Re: straycat]  
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Currently the only multicrew module I own that doesn't support multiplayer multiseat is the UH-1H, and the only DCS module I own that might not have an EFM at release is the Mirage 2000C.

I think Straycat goes overboard with rants, but in the future I am going to abstain from purchasing modules that should include these features until they include these features. I don't want to spend money on something that might result in "Oops, it's not going to happen."

#4191452 - 11/06/15 01:09 PM Re: Gazelle "might" get multicrew [Re: straycat]  
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My guess is like the Hawk the reason it may not be done is because how much work it would take to redo code because how ED is implementing multicrew.

#4191456 - 11/06/15 01:18 PM Re: Gazelle "might" get multicrew [Re: VincentLaw]  
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straycat Offline
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Originally Posted By: Snoopy_476th
My guess is like the Hawk the reason it may not be done is because how much work it would take to redo code because how ED is implementing multicrew.

ED declared multicrew as a 2.0 feature of DCS. Which means I will assume all aircraft that would need it by design are supposed to get it. These being F-14, any jet trainer plane. The Huey still works without the second crew man as a gunner because most weapons can be reasonably accurately fired from boresight. The Mi-8 does not really need multicrew because most of the weapons only need the pilot for use. And just being the flight engineer or second pilot to flip a switch a few times is not that necessary for mp, but still BST is probably going to add it.


I am wondering who is to "blame" for the situation. Currently I have 2 theories:

1. Something drastic changed in code for multicrew which caused all but the most skilled developers to break down.
2. Some developers simply underestimated the work and gave up.


Or perhaps I am imagining too much and multicrew will suddenly work in most modules in a reasonable time. But I think even the L39 fully working with multicrew is at least 6 months away.

#4191461 - 11/06/15 01:33 PM Re: Gazelle "might" get multicrew [Re: straycat]  
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I can't speak for other developers but I know why VEAO is unlikely to do it. It has nothing to do with being to complicated and everything to do with how the code for the hawk is written. eD multicrew has only been in work a short time in comparison with the Hawk.

Last edited by Snoopy_476th; 11/06/15 01:51 PM.
#4191478 - 11/06/15 02:17 PM Re: Gazelle "might" get multicrew [Re: Snoopy_476th]  
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Originally Posted By: Snoopy_476th
I can't speak for other developers but I know why VEAO is unlikely to do it. It has nothing to do with being to complicated and everything to do with how the code for the hawk is written. eD multicrew has only been in work a short time in comparison with the Hawk.

From my understanding: The multicrew-API is relative new, and the HAWK code have to be re-written to use the (new?) API. The 3rd party guys started with coding their stuff with the API`s available at that time and now ED comes with the multicrew-API. It`s now a matter of time, ressources and so on to adapt the code to use the multicrew API.

It may be that Polychop didnt have the time yet to evaluate if they could "adapt" the mutlicrew-API for the Gazelle.

Last edited by EagleEye[GER]; 11/06/15 02:18 PM.
#4191508 - 11/06/15 03:19 PM Re: Gazelle "might" get multicrew [Re: straycat]  
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The problem here is very simple. A vendor proposed an idea for a horse so some other vendors decided to build horse drawn carts based on how they thought the horse would look. Unfortunately, the horse vendor delivered an elephant and none of the horse carts were designed to accommodate an elephant.


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#4191531 - 11/06/15 04:24 PM Re: Gazelle "might" get multicrew [Re: straycat]  
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MultiCrew is not required.


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#4191533 - 11/06/15 04:27 PM Re: Gazelle "might" get multicrew [Re: Snoopy_476th]  
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Originally Posted By: Snoopy_476th
My guess is like the Hawk the reason it may not be done is because how much work it would take to redo code because how ED is implementing multicrew.


Back months ago the topic of multicrew came up for the Super Hornet, but given the code isn't ready yet, and so on, i just put that issue on the backburner. Yes a capability I wanted to implement when it was either stable or ready to implement. But given that there are certain other issues, it may not have happened.


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#4191534 - 11/06/15 04:33 PM Re: Gazelle "might" get multicrew [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
MultiCrew is not required.


Exactly!

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#4191545 - 11/06/15 05:08 PM Re: Gazelle "might" get multicrew [Re: straycat]  
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Here Straycat, this might help you when you get the next urge to post something.

[edited]


That image is NSFW.

Be more mindful of what you post and don't do it again.



Last edited by Force10; 11/06/15 05:12 PM. Reason: NSFW
#4191611 - 11/06/15 06:57 PM Re: Gazelle "might" get multicrew [Re: straycat]  
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I am not a fan of multi crew in the first place. Who has the time to get a friend to coordinate with you, and who trusts the AI? In reality about 90% of the people who want multi crew just want it as a featured tacked on the box that they'll never use.


#4191613 - 11/06/15 06:58 PM Re: Gazelle "might" get multicrew [Re: straycat]  
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Originally Posted By: "straycat"
Seriously what the #%&*$# is wrong with them? Looks like supreme levels of crap project management.


Why would anything that ED mess up come as any sort of surprise?

Since the day the first module (Black Shark) was announced they have proven they make it up as they go along. No company could ever have a roadmap that involves 'integrated' modules that need to be re-written in order to actually be integrated......maps that can't be used without an engine re-write, a completely random order of aircraft which are supplied without foes and era associated content........5 year delays......... content that never leaves beta and change logs that are distributed from memory.

You couldn't make it up.


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4191616 - 11/06/15 07:02 PM Re: Gazelle "might" get multicrew [Re: Paradaz]  
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Originally Posted By: Paradaz
Originally Posted By: "straycat"
Seriously what the #%&*$# is wrong with them? Looks like supreme levels of crap project management.


Why would anything that ED mess up come as any sort of surprise?

Since the day the first module (Black Shark) was announced they have proven they make it up as they go along. No company could ever have a roadmap that involves 'integrated' modules that need to be re-written in order to actually be integrated......maps that can't be used without an engine re-write, a completely random order of aircraft which are supplied without foes and era associated content........5 year delays......... content that never leaves beta and change logs that are distributed from memory.

You couldn't make it up.


I 100% disagree, they can make it up. Why because they have a virtual monopoly on Jet simulation at the moment. For those in North America, think back to the days when Bell had a monopoly on the phone systems. They could and would demand immediate payment of phone calls you just made or they would cut off your phone. They would demand much higher prices for services than they do now. This is no different. If there was competition ED would not be doing half the stuff they are doing.

#4191630 - 11/06/15 07:15 PM Re: Gazelle "might" get multicrew [Re: straycat]  
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Nail on the head Mustang. It is the ONLY reason they are getting away with it......and some people are seemingly happy to allow them to get away with it by keeping quiet, pulling their pants down and allowing ED to have a free ride without even questioning it.


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4191645 - 11/06/15 07:39 PM Re: Gazelle "might" get multicrew [Re: straycat]  
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sigh

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#4191648 - 11/06/15 08:11 PM Re: Gazelle "might" get multicrew [Re: straycat]  
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Originally Posted By: straycat

ED declared multicrew as a 2.0 feature of DCS. Which means I will assume all aircraft that would need it by design are supposed to get it.


Unless you've seen in writing that a certain module is to utilise that feature, you can't assume anything really. The infrastructure for the feature should be available to use in 2.0, for the Devs that wish to make use of it. It is up to them if they want to put work into implementing it, using that infrastructure.

Nate

#4191653 - 11/06/15 08:23 PM Re: Gazelle "might" get multicrew [Re: straycat]  
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Or a differing infrastructure that may have been discused 12-18 months ago?


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4191664 - 11/06/15 08:39 PM Re: Gazelle "might" get multicrew [Re: straycat]  
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Such as?

Nate

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