#4187968 - 10/29/15 06:24 PM
Re: Russia just announced that it's sending humans to the moon
[Re: Desert Eagle]
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 19,581
Raw Kryptonite
Beat the Kobayashi Maru
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Beat the Kobayashi Maru
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MS
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Americans no longer think big? We've got our ROBOTS ON FRIGGIN MARS. "A PC in every home"...DONE That "internet" thing. It might catch on one day and even go global. LOL Tesla Motors, a line of electric cars...NOT GM, Ford or Chrysler. Don't think it's an American, but it's being done here. Amazon...buy it today, very likely have it tomorrow if you want. Damned near anything. Next? Working on drone delivery. Apple. Like it or not, but i____'s are huge. Unfortunately no one in the US cares to update our manufacturing to be able to build their products for them. Virgin Galactic isn't just Richard Branson, there are Americans involved too. And the space port is located here. Crazy Horse. Not saying other countries don't have things going for them too, but don't sell the US short. If Russia wants to go to the moon, that's fine. Been there, done that. Over 45 years ago.
·Steam: Raw Kryptonite ·MWO & Elite Dangerous: Defcon Won ·Meager youtube channel·Intel i5-9600K ·EVGA GTX1070 FTW 8GB ·EVGA CLC 120 Cooler ·16 GB Patriot Memory VIPER 4 3000MHz ·GIGABYTE Z390 AORUS PRO WiFi Mobo · CORSAIR CARBIDE AIR 540 case ·BenQ BL3200PT monitor
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#4187983 - 10/29/15 06:34 PM
Re: Russia just announced that it's sending humans to the moon
[Re: Raw Kryptonite]
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 26,556
wheelsup_cavu
Lifer
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Lifer
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 26,556
Corona, California
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Americans no longer think big? We've got our ROBOTS ON FRIGGIN MARS. "A PC in every home"...DONE That "internet" thing. It might catch on one day and even go global. LOL Tesla Motors, a line of electric cars...NOT GM, Ford or Chrysler. Don't think it's an American, but it's being done here. Amazon...buy it today, very likely have it tomorrow if you want. Damned near anything. Next? Working on drone delivery. Apple. Like it or not, but i____'s are huge. Unfortunately no one in the US cares to update our manufacturing to be able to build their products for them.Virgin Galactic isn't just Richard Branson, there are Americans involved too. And the space port is located here. Crazy Horse. Not saying other countries don't have things going for them too, but don't sell the US short. If Russia wants to go to the moon, that's fine. Been there, done that. Over 45 years ago. Not quite right, A lot of people still want to invest in the country but govt regulations and treaties penalize just about anyone who tries. Wheels
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#4188043 - 10/29/15 07:28 PM
Re: Russia just announced that it's sending humans to the moon
[Re: Raw Kryptonite]
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master
Entil'zha
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Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
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Americans no longer think big? We've got our ROBOTS ON FRIGGIN MARS. "A PC in every home"...DONE That "internet" thing. It might catch on one day and even go global. LOL Tesla Motors, a line of electric cars...NOT GM, Ford or Chrysler. Don't think it's an American, but it's being done here. Amazon...buy it today, very likely have it tomorrow if you want. Damned near anything. Next? Working on drone delivery. Apple. Like it or not, but i____'s are huge. Unfortunately no one in the US cares to update our manufacturing to be able to build their products for them. Virgin Galactic isn't just Richard Branson, there are Americans involved too. And the space port is located here. Crazy Horse. Not saying other countries don't have things going for them too, but don't sell the US short. If Russia wants to go to the moon, that's fine. Been there, done that. Over 45 years ago. Other than the Mars probes and the internet every one of those things was invented to make money, not to explore. Notice the Mars probes and internet were not funded by corporations, but public money. A company won't spend if it won't make a profit, and there's no profit in going to the Moon. Not until it's proven there's money to be made there, and no one will know if there's money to be made there until public funding spends for more exploration. Columbus got gov't funding to blunder into the Western hemisphere, no company would foot his bill. Once he found it, and other gov'ts spent the early years trying to exploit it, they were pushed aside by the corporations who made real money doing it. Why would space go differently? The Jedi Master
The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
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#4188067 - 10/29/15 08:01 PM
Re: Russia just announced that it's sending humans to the moon
[Re: Desert Eagle]
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 19,581
Raw Kryptonite
Beat the Kobayashi Maru
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Beat the Kobayashi Maru
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MS
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Nothing wrong with that. The space race was originally out of competition more than the sake of exploration. That's what making money is about--beating the competition. That doesn't diminish it, there are a lot less risky ways to make a buck.
·Steam: Raw Kryptonite ·MWO & Elite Dangerous: Defcon Won ·Meager youtube channel·Intel i5-9600K ·EVGA GTX1070 FTW 8GB ·EVGA CLC 120 Cooler ·16 GB Patriot Memory VIPER 4 3000MHz ·GIGABYTE Z390 AORUS PRO WiFi Mobo · CORSAIR CARBIDE AIR 540 case ·BenQ BL3200PT monitor
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#4188098 - 10/29/15 09:12 PM
Re: Russia just announced that it's sending humans to the moon
[Re: Desert Eagle]
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 9,522
Wklink
Permanent Latrine Orderly
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Permanent Latrine Orderly
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 9,522
Olympia, Washington
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It was also an excuse to tinker with currently rocket technology to produce better and more reliable ICBMs.
Everything has a secondary mission.
The artist formerly known as SimHq Tom Cofield
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#4188242 - 10/30/15 03:44 AM
Re: Russia just announced that it's sending humans to the moon
[Re: Desert Eagle]
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Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,733
F4UDash4
Veteran
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SC
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I prefer the term "Space Exploitation" over "exploration".
When there is profit to be made in space we will colonize the entire solar system, as long as we make it only about "science / exploration" it will never happen.
"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
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#4188439 - 10/30/15 03:01 PM
Re: Russia just announced that it's sending humans to the moon
[Re: Raw Kryptonite]
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master
Entil'zha
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Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel
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Space Coast, USA
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That doesn't diminish it, there are a lot less risky ways to make a buck.
Which is why it's going to happen at a snail's pace if at all. Why take such huge risks when you can make it more reliably here? Earth orbit is easy. Close, safe, cheap. Moon? Mars? Beyond? Not so much. The Jedi Master
The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
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#4188492 - 10/30/15 04:19 PM
Re: Russia just announced that it's sending humans to the moon
[Re: Jedi Master]
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Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,733
F4UDash4
Veteran
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SC
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That doesn't diminish it, there are a lot less risky ways to make a buck.
Which is why it's going to happen at a snail's pace if at all. Why take such huge risks when you can make it more reliably here? Earth orbit is easy. Close, safe, cheap. Moon? Mars? Beyond? Not so much. Earth orbit is far from easy. Getting to and from Earth orbit are the hardest and most expensive things about spaceflight. As Robert Heinlein wrote "Once you're in orbit, you're halfway to anywhere."
"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
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#4188588 - 10/30/15 06:32 PM
Re: Russia just announced that it's sending humans to the moon
[Re: Desert Eagle]
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 24,712
Dart
Measured in Llamathrusts
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Measured in Llamathrusts
Lifer
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 24,712
Alabaster, AL USA
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Hmmm, no mention by the Russians about getting the men back once they're there.
The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events. More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.comFrom Laser: "The forum is the place where combat (real time) flight simulator fans come to play turn based strategy combat."
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#4188603 - 10/30/15 06:47 PM
Re: Russia just announced that it's sending humans to the moon
[Re: PanzerMeyer]
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 13,786
PFunk
SimHQ Redneck
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SimHQ Redneck
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N. Central Texas
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Have they said whether they intend to bring their humans back? Getting them there is relatively easy The Russians plan on hiring Matt Damon for the mission. He can take care of himself. The US government will still spend ridiculous amounts of money and time to rescue him.
"A little luck & a little government is necessary to get by, but only a fool places his complete trust in either one." - PJ O'Rourke www.sixmanfootball.com
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#4188635 - 10/30/15 07:28 PM
Re: Russia just announced that it's sending humans to the moon
[Re: F4UDash4]
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master
Entil'zha
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Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
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That doesn't diminish it, there are a lot less risky ways to make a buck.
Which is why it's going to happen at a snail's pace if at all. Why take such huge risks when you can make it more reliably here? Earth orbit is easy. Close, safe, cheap. Moon? Mars? Beyond? Not so much. Earth orbit is far from easy. Getting to and from Earth orbit are the hardest and most expensive things about spaceflight. As Robert Heinlein wrote "Once you're in orbit, you're halfway to anywhere." Earth orbit has: Van Allen belt radiation shielding, emergency return to Earth in an hour, easy access to resupply of any stores, instant comms, no need for massive payload dedicated to fuel, psychological support for astronauts being able to see it out the window. Getting to Earth orbit in an orbital vehicle is far simpler than getting a vehicle that can go to Mars, land, and then return to Earth into Earth orbit. It's greater than the difference between packing your 20 ft boat for a day of fishing and packing it to sail around the world by the equator, without hugging the coastline. Sure, if you want to spend unlimited amounts of money it's feasible (as far as we know), but since everyone wants to do it super-cheap (under $100 billion is super cheap for a project of that magnitude) it's really not. The Jedi Master
The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
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#4188908 - 10/31/15 12:10 PM
Re: Russia just announced that it's sending humans to the moon
[Re: Jedi Master]
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Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,733
F4UDash4
Veteran
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SC
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Sure, if you want to spend unlimited amounts of money it's feasible (as far as we know), but since everyone wants to do it super-cheap (under $100 billion is super cheap for a project of that magnitude) it's really not.
The cost equation is undergoing a huge transformation. "If one can figure out how to effectively reuse rockets just like airplanes, the cost of access to space will be reduced by as much as a factor of a hundred. A fully reusable vehicle has never been done before. That really is the fundamental breakthrough needed to revolutionize access to space." - Elon Musk
"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
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#4189006 - 10/31/15 05:20 PM
Re: Russia just announced that it's sending humans to the moon
[Re: Jedi Master]
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,215
NH2112
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,215
Jackman, ME
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That doesn't diminish it, there are a lot less risky ways to make a buck.
Which is why it's going to happen at a snail's pace if at all. Why take such huge risks when you can make it more reliably here? Earth orbit is easy. Close, safe, cheap. Moon? Mars? Beyond? Not so much. Earth orbit is far from easy. Getting to and from Earth orbit are the hardest and most expensive things about spaceflight. As Robert Heinlein wrote "Once you're in orbit, you're halfway to anywhere." Earth orbit has: Van Allen belt radiation shielding, emergency return to Earth in an hour, easy access to resupply of any stores, instant comms, no need for massive payload dedicated to fuel, psychological support for astronauts being able to see it out the window. Getting to Earth orbit in an orbital vehicle is far simpler than getting a vehicle that can go to Mars, land, and then return to Earth into Earth orbit. It's greater than the difference between packing your 20 ft boat for a day of fishing and packing it to sail around the world by the equator, without hugging the coastline. Sure, if you want to spend unlimited amounts of money it's feasible (as far as we know), but since everyone wants to do it super-cheap (under $100 billion is super cheap for a project of that magnitude) it's really not. The Jedi Master Getting a payload to orbit takes however much fuel the booster needs. Basically, you're wasting something like 99% of the total mass just to reach LEO. That's like having a trucking company go to the 7-11 and pick up a soda for you. Getting the payload to where it needs to go once it's in LEO requires a couple 5-gallon gas cans strapped on the outside, and inertia does the rest. If we ever get a space elevator built, the cost to LEO drops to a small percentage of what it is now, even figuring in the cost of building the elevator. Safety can't be the primary criterion in any kind of exploration. People die all the time while flying, sailing, playing sports, having sex, whatever. Considering the way we get things into orbit, I'd say the space program as a whole has an exemplary safety record. The same goes for psychological issues; if we keep looking for reasons not to go as opposed to just going and dealing with non-technical problems as they come up, we're going to be earthbound forever. Sailors of old crossed the oceans on months-long voyages without knowing what was on the other end, and even when they were sure they'd fall off the earth if they went too far they still went. They thought there were monsters that would destroy their ships and devour them, and they still went. That can't have been much easier, psychologically speaking, than knowing you're 20 million miles from earth with no hope of rescue if something goes seriously wrong. Wallowing toward the Normandy coastline on June 6 1944 in landing craft had to have been pretty psychologically traumatic, yet people did it and generally turned out OK if they lived through the war. CG2015's thread on our turning into wimps was right, but not because our troops don't wear steel armor and swing swords. Rather, because we as a people in general worship absolute 100% safety to the point where if we can't be guaranteed of it we won't do something. It's pretty sad, really. Maybe in order to run for office in this country you should have to be an extreme athlete or someone who risks his life on a regular basis for no other reason than getting a thrill.
Phil
“The biggest problem people have is they don’t think they’re supposed to have problems.” - Hayes Barnard
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