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#4184503 - 10/21/15 07:59 PM Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II  
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Belsimtek confirm develop of F-5E Tiger II to DCS: World

http://www.belsimtek.com/news/1553/
Quote:
Development F-5E Tiger II
Continuing working on the “famous” fighters’ line, we are especially concerned about game balance in DCS World. The best rival for the beloved by users MiG-21bis is an American fighter F-5E Tiger II, developed by the Northrop in the second half of the last century.

Consistently caring about the quality of the released product, which is reflected in the “similarity” between the developed module and the real airplane, our specialists, in their work, are trying to only use available documentary data of the original airplane.

Undoubtedly, a wide range of weapons from guided air-to-air missiles to various air-to-ground armament (unguided rockets, various bombs and cluster munitions) and two built-in 30-mm cannons will impress any fan of aviation battles. Professional flight model, implemented as close as possible to the real airplane in DCS World will allow aviation fans to enjoy flying the aircraft.

In the following updates, we are planning to inform our virtual pilots about development progress of this fighter for DCS World.




More News to the Front
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4184508 - 10/21/15 08:04 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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Hopefully history repeats itself as Belsimtek usually doesn't release info till a module is near ready.

So looking forward to this.

#4184522 - 10/21/15 08:32 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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Ehum ... where is the AH1?

-C-

#4184564 - 10/21/15 10:00 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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So we have F-14 coming and now the F5. Could somebody make a black paint skin for the F5 then we can replay scenes from the top gun movie smile

There is so much content for DCS already I do not know where to start and it keeps getting better smile


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#4184675 - 10/22/15 04:15 AM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Charlie_SB]  
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Originally Posted By: Charlie_SB
Ehum ... where is the AH1?

-C-


AH1, i am looking for it tooooooooooo!!!!!

BST show us some heli loveeeee!

#4184677 - 10/22/15 04:40 AM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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F-5 has more or less been confirmed for some months. If it is simple to use and has sensible button mapping I may pick it up. And hopefully, a full HUD.

#4184689 - 10/22/15 07:24 AM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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I can say I Called it! Totally saw it coming. This is one mean bird!

Cant Wait!


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#4184725 - 10/22/15 11:31 AM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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Might pick it up if they go ahead and finish the other darned 4 modules they've already had out for 1-2 years in Beta. Otherwise, I'll have to "suffer" only having the Mirage as a modern Western fighter jet.

#4184747 - 10/22/15 12:19 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Charlie_SB]  
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Originally Posted By: Charlie_SB
Ehum ... where is the AH1?

-C-


I thought the AH-1 was coming too and was really excited about it. wonder what happened to it frown

SD


From the hills rebounding
Let this war cry sounding
Summon all at Cambria's call
The mighty force surrounding

Men of Harlech onto glory
This shall ever be your story
Keep these fighting words before ye
Welshmen never yield
#4184750 - 10/22/15 12:23 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: clarasdk]  
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Originally Posted By: clarasdk
So we have F-14 coming and now the F5. Could somebody make a black paint skin for the F5 then we can replay scenes from the top gun movie smile


...because I was inverted.

Shame we won't be getting an F-5F at the same time to simulate a T-38, but I'm very, very happy to hear about this. And again, given BST's history, I'm hoping it's not far off!


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#4184763 - 10/22/15 12:53 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Charlie_SB]  
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Originally Posted By: Charlie_SB
Ehum ... where is the AH1?

-C-


BHTI doesn't play well with others. Nor does Sikorsky.


Originally Posted by Abraham Lincoln
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.


#4184764 - 10/22/15 12:55 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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Well we got the UH-1, so it can be done.




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#4184772 - 10/22/15 01:02 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Mustang60348]  
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Originally Posted By: Mustang60348
Hopefully history repeats itself as Belsimtek usually doesn't release info till a module is near ready.

So looking forward to this.


I have not played DCS before early 2014 so I do not know about the time passed between BST announcing modules and releasing. What was the time frame on the huey and mi8?

#4184779 - 10/22/15 01:09 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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I have a few contacts with both BHTI and Sikorsky. Kinda part of my job wink

One corporate reply from the later when a request for a license to model the UH60-A was "WTF?"

When the same request was made to the former, the reply was, crickets. Not one engineering group or engineer was willing to sign up to release any data for any AH model dating back to the S.


Originally Posted by Abraham Lincoln
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.


#4185150 - 10/23/15 08:58 AM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: 531 Ghost]  
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Originally Posted By: 531 Ghost
I have a few contacts with both BHTI and Sikorsky. Kinda part of my job wink

One corporate reply from the later when a request for a license to model the UH60-A was "WTF?"

When the same request was made to the former, the reply was, crickets. Not one engineering group or engineer was willing to sign up to release any data for any AH model dating back to the S.


Well that sucks.......Still I live in Hope. old_simmer

SD


From the hills rebounding
Let this war cry sounding
Summon all at Cambria's call
The mighty force surrounding

Men of Harlech onto glory
This shall ever be your story
Keep these fighting words before ye
Welshmen never yield
#4185153 - 10/23/15 09:07 AM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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Or they could do what ED does, just make it without a license or input from the company

#4185175 - 10/23/15 10:54 AM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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My guess is, official reveal on dcs forums in february, followed by pre-order in May, release in August. What was the previous reveal time spans BST?

#4185266 - 10/23/15 01:47 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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Why not the T-38? They have done European trainers. It's about time they did a staple of American jet trainer aircraft.


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#4185328 - 10/23/15 04:00 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Mustang60348]  
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Originally Posted By: Mustang60348
Or they could do what ED does, just make it without a license or input from the company


Incorrect, stop posting one liners assuming you know what goes on and suggesting that ED does not pursue legal rights to legally build and replicate aircraft and their systems.

K Thanks.


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#4185376 - 10/23/15 05:29 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: 531 Ghost]  
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Originally Posted By: 531 Ghost
BHTI doesn't play well with others. Nor does Sikorsky.


Nor does Northrop Grumman... but we've got the F-5E and the F-14A Tomcat coming up.

Anything is possible.

#4185386 - 10/23/15 05:57 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
Originally Posted By: Mustang60348
Or they could do what ED does, just make it without a license or input from the company


Incorrect, stop posting one liners assuming you know what goes on and suggesting that ED does not pursue legal rights to legally build and replicate aircraft and their systems.

K Thanks.


According to the disclaimer in the game , None of the copyright holders, endorse, sponsor or are otherwise involved in the development of the weapons, aircraft etc in DCS World.

Sounds to me like they don't have licenses for the aircraft etc.

So I will ask you directly, which weapon systems are licensed for use in the game.

Last edited by Mustang60348; 10/23/15 06:00 PM.
#4185391 - 10/23/15 06:03 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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That disclaimer does not say they do not have a license when a license is required.

try again.


To accurately re produce any systems of any aircraft requires a license.

Every PSM DCS Aircraft is in that category.

Names, visual representation etc.


Last edited by SkateZilla; 10/23/15 06:04 PM.

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#4185392 - 10/23/15 06:04 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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A better question is which ones require licences. And for what exactly.

EDIT: answered above.

Nate

#4185395 - 10/23/15 06:05 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
That disclaimer does not say they do not have a license when a license is required.

try again.


To accurately re produce any systems of any aircraft requires a license.

Every PSM DCS Aircraft is in that category.

Names, visual representation etc.



If they had licences, they would mean they are endorsing the product, that is one of the things a license does, endorse a product for release, like the UH1

#4185414 - 10/23/15 06:42 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
That disclaimer does not say they do not have a license when a license is required.

try again.


To accurately re produce any systems of any aircraft requires a license.

Every PSM DCS Aircraft is in that category.

Names, visual representation etc.



So don't.

Fudge it and make it "close enough." The vast majority of the customers won't notice or care.
If the choice is "not close to 100% accurate AH-1" or "no AH-1", I'm going with not close over nothing any day. I'd rather have it merely largely correct than stare at AI helos and wish I could fly them.

If you're an anal "it has to be almost crossing the line to classified to satisfy me!!" type, fine, don't buy it. It's hardly fair to deny a lesser-modeled version to the customers who won't mind just because it's not good enough for the hardliners.



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4185693 - 10/24/15 03:00 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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Guys, not trying to start any flame war here. I'm just stating my experience with both BHTI and Sikorsky. Nothing more. I've been up both Corporate ladders on this issue and got the replies (or not) I previously stated. Simple.


Originally Posted by Abraham Lincoln
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.


#4186204 - 10/26/15 06:34 AM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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Ok kids, play nice. No kicking between the legs and no hair pulling. We are all adults. Is there anything to show on the F-E? Any new eye candy coming out of the factory?
In the meantime this F-5E documentary peaked my interest in the F-5. I built the Hasegawa 1:32 model way back in High School.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZQir_yH_J8


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#4186549 - 10/26/15 07:50 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Jedi Master]  
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master

If you're an anal "it has to be almost crossing the line to classified to satisfy me!!" type, fine, don't buy it. It's hardly fair to deny a lesser-modeled version to the customers who won't mind just because it's not good enough for the hardliners.


Why I prefer the FC3 level of aircraft. I dont have the time to get a certification in each and I like to fly a variety.

-Jeff

#4186697 - 10/27/15 05:14 AM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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Sometimes you must look at modules like model building. Us old heads built a lot of models when we were young. You never forget thinking I want to build that Monogram B-24! Then you got home and opened the box. Halfway through your inspection of components you realized that the box was going to be in the closet for a long, long time. The next weekend you bought a 1/48 scale Zero. You did because you knew you would have it done in a week.
A module like the A-10C or MiG-21 takes time to learn and maybe a lifetime to master. Spending willy nilly on modules you will have some you never touch. I go home at 6 every night. By the time I get to chill out in front of my PC it is 7 or 8. I have an hour or two to fly. This means most of the time I get in the MiG-15 because it is simple and easy. On the weekend I want to challenge myself a bit more so I can do some F-15, MiG-21/29 or even some Helo stuff.
There is a reason why this is called a STUDY SIM. When you want to turn off your brain and blow stuff up there is BoS, CLOD, IL2 1946 and a variety of others. Oh, I cant forget Strike Fighters... If you think it is easy, you must not be playing it full switch.

Just my view.


Last edited by Maico; 10/27/15 05:18 AM.

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#4186844 - 10/27/15 03:07 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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Exactly, there is need for both types of sims, and the "DCS should be study modules only" attitude helps no one. They take longer to make, which lowers output and therefore revenue generation.

Which is better, to make one DCS for $60 every three years, or make three FC planes in the same period for $25 each? The company makes 25% more, there are 3x as many planes to be used in the sim, people don't need a degree to master them...

There is a place for the DCS modules, for the special aircraft they can get sufficient info about, but they should be outnumbered by FC modules by at least 2 to 1. There are planes that will NEVER get DCS treatment (the Su-33 is apparently one). I'm glad it's there as it is instead of simply having no Su-33 to fly because the DCS-level information is restricted!

I remember Wags saying FC3 outsold many of their other modules. I remain surprised that they've not made an "FC4" with a new batch of similar-level planes for DCSW (as opposed to FC4 being FC3's planes in a new sim as the previous were). Maybe make a WWII FC or Korean War FC to get a bunch of planes out at once. Yeah, the Hornet is going to be great as a DCS module, but I'd be happy with an FC F-15E or something too.



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4186862 - 10/27/15 03:29 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Maico]  
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Originally Posted By: Maico
There is a reason why this is called a STUDY SIM. When you want to turn off your brain and blow stuff up there is BoS, CLOD, IL2 1946 and a variety of others. Oh, I cant forget Strike Fighters... If you think it is easy, you must not be playing it full switch.


Valid.

I'm excited about the F-5E. Has a radar. Not overly complex, mostly a VFR dogfighter. I'll wait anxiously. In the meantime, I'll continue driving my A-10A and Huey.

-Jeff

#4186994 - 10/27/15 08:04 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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I would've said the same thing last year about the MiG-21bis. wink



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4188273 - 10/30/15 06:05 AM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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I have days that are a bear. Sometimes I go home and I am tired and the gametime turns into 40 minutes before I go to bed. I try to fly the Huey or some other complex machine but I just cant muster my brain cells into action. I ask myself "How can I feel better?" The answer is either BoS, IL2 or WoV/WoI. I still really enjoy a 8vs8 dogfight in IL2 1946. Weekends are mostly filled with DCS time.


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#4193057 - 11/10/15 03:29 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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Weapon Setup for the F-5 from Belsimtek

Quote:
F-5E Tiger II. The armament that is planned to develop
The light tactical fighter F-5E Tiger II is developed primarily for air combat with enemy fighters, bombers, reconnaissance planes, and helicopters. Two 20-mm caliber cannons with 280 rounds per barrel and two air-to-air heat-seeking missiles AIM-9 can be used for this task.

At the same time, capabilities of onboard weapon systems and the presence of five hardpoints, allow employment of unguided and guided (external laser source) bombs, cluster bombs and unguided rockets in airstrike missions.

The following armament is planned to be available for the player:

1. Two 20-mm caliber M-39A3 cannons with rate of fire of 1500-1700 rounds per minute and ammunition of 280 rounds per gun;

2. Two heat-seeking missiles (AIM-9B or AIM-9P) (currently we are considering these versions);

3. Unguided bombs:

· 5x Mk-82

· 3x Mk-83

· 1x Mk-84

· 5x Mk-82 Snakeye

· 5x M-117

· MER-5 5x Mk-82

· MER-5 5x Mk-82 Snakeye;

4. Cluster bombs:

· 5хCBU-52B;

5. Guided bombs:

· 4x GBU-12 (buddy lasing or ground laser designator);

6. Unguided rockets:

· 4x LAU-61 (x19) (LAU-3 or LAU-60 could be added later)

· 4x LAU-68 (x7);

7. Flare dispenser:

· SUU-25C.

All the items, mentioned above, at this moment, have different status of readiness, but we are already sure that it will be a very interesting and playable module!


http://www.belsimtek.com/news/1558/

#4193110 - 11/10/15 06:13 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Jedi Master]  
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AggressorBLUE Offline
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Jerz
Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
Exactly, there is need for both types of sims, and the "DCS should be study modules only" attitude helps no one. They take longer to make, which lowers output and therefore revenue generation.

Which is better, to make one DCS for $60 every three years, or make three FC planes in the same period for $25 each? The company makes 25% more, there are 3x as many planes to be used in the sim, people don't need a degree to master them...

There is a place for the DCS modules, for the special aircraft they can get sufficient info about, but they should be outnumbered by FC modules by at least 2 to 1. There are planes that will NEVER get DCS treatment (the Su-33 is apparently one). I'm glad it's there as it is instead of simply having no Su-33 to fly because the DCS-level information is restricted!

I remember Wags saying FC3 outsold many of their other modules. I remain surprised that they've not made an "FC4" with a new batch of similar-level planes for DCSW (as opposed to FC4 being FC3's planes in a new sim as the previous were). Maybe make a WWII FC or Korean War FC to get a bunch of planes out at once. Yeah, the Hornet is going to be great as a DCS module, but I'd be happy with an FC F-15E or something too.



The Jedi Master


Agreed. The personal "sweet spot" for me these days is FC3 level controls and the PFM (or what ever the advanced flight model is called) -I've gotten over my personal requirement for clickable cockpits. Well built MFD profiles and access to the key commands in-game help greatly here! These products are more accessible to new-comers as well.


Too much other stuff going on in my life to really sink teeth into a DCS level module. I'll still buy every DCS module that comes out, because there's some great stuff on the horizon, but I'll personally get more mileage out of the FC3 level birds for a while.


PS: on Record, I really like the SF2 series. TONS of awesome mods and a nicely done Dynamic campaign. I just wish it had MP and TK hadn't changed his focus over to mobile frown


My Rig:i5-3570k @ 4.2 GHZ W/ Corsair Hydro H110 Cooler / Asus Sabertooth Z77 Mobo / GTX 1070/ 16 Gigs DDR3 RAM / A Few SSDs, and a Bunch of HDDs / All held together by: Corsair C70 Case

Other Assets Deployed:
HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog SN#22621/CH Throttle Quad/MFG Crosswind Pedals SN#0004 smile
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Simpit: Obutto R3VOLUTION


#4193146 - 11/10/15 07:31 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Maico]  
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Originally Posted By: Maico
Sometimes I go home and I am tired and the gametime turns into 40 minutes before I go to bed. I try to fly the Huey or some other complex machine but I just cant muster my brain cells into action.


I actually find flicking the switches strangely relaxing. On the other hand, having a cockpit like the F-15C full of unflickable switches frustrates me. It's like being in a toy shop and getting my hand slapped every time I try to touch something.

#4193179 - 11/10/15 09:11 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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I only have time for a DCS level plane, and this one is the BMS 4.33 Falcon. The day DCS releases their F/A-18C I will need to share my virtual time between both birds. I will love to see more FC3 level aircraft.


-Sir in case of retreat, were we have to retreat??
-To the Graveyard!!

sandbagger.uk.com/stratos.html
#4193269 - 11/11/15 04:49 AM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: NavyNuke99]  
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Ark Offline
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Originally Posted By: NavyNuke99
Originally Posted By: clarasdk
So we have F-14 coming and now the F5. Could somebody make a black paint skin for the F5 then we can replay scenes from the top gun movie smile


...because I was inverted.



We, Navy, "we" were inverted.

Haha


Ark

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#4193277 - 11/11/15 05:59 AM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Ark]  
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Originally Posted By: Ark
Originally Posted By: NavyNuke99
Originally Posted By: clarasdk
So we have F-14 coming and now the F5. Could somebody make a black paint skin for the F5 then we can replay scenes from the top gun movie smile


...because I was inverted.



We, Navy, "we" were inverted.

Haha


Sorry Goose. That really was a great shot, really great. You should be a photographer.


" And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction: 'I served in the United States Navy.'"- John F. Kennedy

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#4193378 - 11/11/15 04:20 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Jedi Master]  
Joined: Jul 2000
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JG26 vonVampr Offline
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MI USA
Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
Exactly, there is need for both types of sims, and the "DCS should be study modules only" attitude helps no one. They take longer to make, which lowers output and therefore revenue generation.

Which is better, to make one DCS for $60 every three years, or make three FC planes in the same period for $25 each? The company makes 25% more, there are 3x as many planes to be used in the sim, people don't need a degree to master them...

There is a place for the DCS modules, for the special aircraft they can get sufficient info about, but they should be outnumbered by FC modules by at least 2 to 1. There are planes that will NEVER get DCS treatment (the Su-33 is apparently one). I'm glad it's there as it is instead of simply having no Su-33 to fly because the DCS-level information is restricted!

I remember Wags saying FC3 outsold many of their other modules. I remain surprised that they've not made an "FC4" with a new batch of similar-level planes for DCSW (as opposed to FC4 being FC3's planes in a new sim as the previous were). Maybe make a WWII FC or Korean War FC to get a bunch of planes out at once. Yeah, the Hornet is going to be great as a DCS module, but I'd be happy with an FC F-15E or something too.



The Jedi Master


I really have to disagree with most of what you said. Your post and mine are purely subjective of course and only are our personal wants and desires, not a barometer for the world. For me the lack of a multi role, full fidelity six degrees of freedom clickable cockpit fighter/bomber with fully modeled avionics and war systems is disappointing. Please no more arcade model aircraft because it's convenient. This is a sim, and the bar has been set very high with the Mig 21, Mig 15 and F-86, the Huey and Ka-50, the WWII birds and every other fully simulated aircraft in the sim. The FA-18 will scratch that itch, but I'd rather they concentrated all of their energy there and not on development of more FC3 style of aircraft.

In full disclosure it was the FC3 F-15C that I flew first and drew me into the rest of the sim. I still fly it as it's the only very modern fighter available for online warfare if flying the Blue side, and is usually opposed by the Su-27, Su-31, 33 and Mig 29. All of those aircraft are FC3 planes, and I'm grateful they're available to fly, but they're merely a shadow of what the fully modelled modules are and don't offer the same experience , not even close. Your mileage may vary! cheers

#4193428 - 11/11/15 06:39 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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i want to go with Jedi in which it would be nice to have more FC3 level aircraft, (especially using oculus rift),but JG26 i hear your point too, look what happened with hawk and c101, most ppl are staying away from it unless it has EFM

#4193510 - 11/11/15 10:54 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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Abingdon, Oxon.
But the Hawk and the C101 have nothing to do with FC level aircraft, or at least current FC level (with the exception of the Mig29 and Su30).

We're not asking for arcade level aircraft, we're not asking for SFM aircraft - we're asking for more like the current iterations of the Su-25T, the F-15C, the SU-27. Non-clickable cockpits, AFM/PFM, reasonable weapons modeling.

You know - almost like the sims of yesteryear, albeit with better flight modelling smile


Part time poster
Full time lurker
#4193544 - 11/12/15 01:08 AM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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Count me in the category of "more modern FC3 planes". Time is limited for many of us and FC is the perfect balance between realism and playability for many. Fact is complex planes requires hours upon hours of learning/practice which sadly is not possible for a number of us.

As ED is developing WWII planes alongside the F-18 I don't see the harm in them making FC level planes alongside other modules. We would also be able to fly more modern aircraft/variants that are not possible at the study sim level. Sadly the number of modern multirole planes which can be made at study sim levels can probably be counted on one hand. Hopefully a competent 3rd party dev steps up to the plate.

#4193769 - 11/12/15 06:05 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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If I have a choice between FC3 fidelity and no module at all, then I'll take FC3 fidelity all day long. That said, with the flight model being the apparent long pole in the tent of product development, then I don't really see much upside for building a FC3 level module and giving it a PFM level flight model. After all, you would only make a portion per unit of what you could make with a full DCS module ($20-25 vs. $50-60), and I'm not sure you would get the volume sales to offset the margins because the development costs wouldn't be that much different (though you wouldn't need licensing for FC3 level systems modeling).

I think the FC3 being the big seller was because there are 6 different airframes in a single package (not counting the 3 MiG-29 variants), and the flight model and cockpit development on those has been incremental to allow individual module sales. If each of the FC3 aircraft had been built as individual modules with AFM/PFMs, it's doubtful that we would see the $10 price point. Keep in mind that ED made their money on these aircraft with LOMAC, FC1, and FC2 (Su-27 and MiG-29 from Flanker 1 & 2 notwithstanding), so they already had product and capital from which to further development.

I could be wrong on all of this, and I hope that I am. While I prefer full DCS modules, I would rather see FC3 level modules than the "hardcore or nothing" extremes.


-Home Fries

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty."
- Robert A. Heinlein

The average naval aviator, despite the sometimes swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy, and caring. These feelings just don't involve anyone else.

#4193806 - 11/12/15 08:16 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Davemetalhead]  
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Originally Posted By: Davemetalhead
Non-clickable cockpits

I don't get why anyone would want a non-clickable cockpit. You could have an airplane with the same systems complexity as FC3 airplanes AND clickable switches. Sure, a lot of the switches would be non-functional like in FSX, and some of them would not function exactly like real life, but being able to click things doesn't make a plane harder to fly.

#4193812 - 11/12/15 08:33 PM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: VincentLaw]  
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Originally Posted By: VincentLaw
Originally Posted By: Davemetalhead
Non-clickable cockpits

I don't get why anyone would want a non-clickable cockpit. You could have an airplane with the same systems complexity as FC3 airplanes AND clickable switches. Sure, a lot of the switches would be non-functional like in FSX, and some of them would not function exactly like real life, but being able to click things doesn't make a plane harder to fly.

I think what he's trying to say is that he wants systems functionality that can be accessed entirely via keyboard and/or HOTAS, as opposed for the requirement to click a bunch of switches to perform a simple sequence or operation (e.g. switch to AA-2 on the MiG-21 instead of clicking air, selecting station, selecting missile on the UFC, etc.). I agree that having clickable functions for things such as landing light, nav lights, etc. makes it so you don't have to remember key combos, but you can program them if you wish.

I would be fine with a "best of both worlds" approach.


-Home Fries

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty."
- Robert A. Heinlein

The average naval aviator, despite the sometimes swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy, and caring. These feelings just don't involve anyone else.

#4193877 - 11/13/15 01:13 AM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: VincentLaw]  
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Originally Posted By: VincentLaw
Originally Posted By: Davemetalhead
Non-clickable cockpits

I don't get why anyone would want a non-clickable cockpit. You could have an airplane with the same systems complexity as FC3 airplanes AND clickable switches. Sure, a lot of the switches would be non-functional like in FSX, and some of them would not function exactly like real life, but being able to click things doesn't make a plane harder to fly.


Main thing is development time for what would essentially be a superficial feature. Though a partially clickable cockpit would be nice, knowing what works and doesn't would be a pain. The advance systems modelling likely adds a lot to the cost so I think even with AFM+/PFM the costs of development would be notably cheaper.

If ED did an FC3 level F/A-18C alongside the study sim level that would be wonderful.

#4193930 - 11/13/15 08:46 AM Re: Belsimtek: F-5E Tiger II [Re: Flogger23m]  
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Originally Posted By: Flogger23m
If ED did an FC3 level F/A-18C alongside the study sim level that would be wonderful.

I have in the past suggested it as an intermediate difficulty level between arcade mode and real mode. It would make DCS more scalable.

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