#4174399 - 09/28/15 03:30 PM
Re: VEAO Hawk Advanced FM is need to be done from scratch.
[Re: Stratos]
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,583
Lucky
Old Guy
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Old Guy
Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,583
Upstate N.Y.
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Matt's comment on the subject. http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2484682&postcount=131Curious as to what statement was premature.
Last edited by Lucky; 09/28/15 03:34 PM.
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#4174455 - 09/28/15 05:37 PM
Re: VEAO Hawk Advanced FM is need to be done from scratch.
[Re: Lucky]
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,922
Paradaz
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,922
UK
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It was referring to a statement on ED's russian flavour of their boards in which I believe one of the developers had posted that 1.5 wasn't ready and was slipping sometime into October. The post was subsequently removed.
On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
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#4174482 - 09/28/15 06:15 PM
Re: VEAO Hawk Advanced FM is need to be done from scratch.
[Re: Paradaz]
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,583
Lucky
Old Guy
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Old Guy
Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,583
Upstate N.Y.
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It was referring to a statement on ED's russian flavour of their boards in which I believe one of the developers had posted that 1.5 wasn't ready and was slipping sometime into October. The post was subsequently removed. OK, thanks. It's probably true though.
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#4174502 - 09/28/15 06:35 PM
Re: VEAO Hawk Advanced FM is need to be done from scratch.
[Re: Stratos]
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master
Entil'zha
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Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
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Of course it is, because we can automatically believe anything negative we read but experience severe skepticism of anything positive.
Why is this?
Couldn't begin to even hypothesize. If we first take out the entire history of announcements and actual release dates, then we have NOTHING to go on...
The Jedi Master
The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
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#4174513 - 09/28/15 06:51 PM
Re: VEAO Hawk Advanced FM is need to be done from scratch.
[Re: Jedi Master]
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 481
Mustang60348
Member
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Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 481
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Of course it is, because we can automatically believe anything negative we read but experience severe skepticism of anything positive.
Why is this?
Couldn't begin to even hypothesize. If we first take out the entire history of announcements and actual release dates, then we have NOTHING to go on...
The Jedi Master Honestly I don't even understand this post. Can you elaborate please
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#4174528 - 09/28/15 07:06 PM
Re: VEAO Hawk Advanced FM is need to be done from scratch.
[Re: Stratos]
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 161
zaelu
MercInc staff
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MercInc staff
Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 161
France (ex Romania)
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#4174536 - 09/28/15 07:16 PM
Re: VEAO Hawk Advanced FM is need to be done from scratch.
[Re: Mustang60348]
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 170
MTFDarkEagle
Shrek 9th Air Strike Sqn
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Shrek 9th Air Strike Sqn
Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 170
On your 6 o'clock, messing wit...
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One of the sad things about the whole VEAO situation is they are trashing their ex-developer in their safe space with out the ability of him to respond there. THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#4174538 - 09/28/15 07:19 PM
Re: VEAO Hawk Advanced FM is need to be done from scratch.
[Re: Stratos]
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,042
cichlidfan
Member
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Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,042
Woodbridge, VA, USA
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I am quite surprised by the comments I have seen. I certainly hope their reports to their military customers don't include the same 'airing of dirty laundry'.
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#4174549 - 09/28/15 07:33 PM
Re: VEAO Hawk Advanced FM is need to be done from scratch.
[Re: cichlidfan]
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 481
Mustang60348
Member
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Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 481
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I am quite surprised by the comments I have seen. I certainly hope their reports to their military customers don't include the same 'airing of dirty laundry'. It isn't the airing of dirty laundry, it is airing it in a place where the dev can't respond because of a ban
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#4174736 - 09/29/15 06:11 AM
Re: VEAO Hawk Advanced FM is need to be done from scratch.
[Re: cichlidfan]
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 161
zaelu
MercInc staff
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MercInc staff
Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 161
France (ex Romania)
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I am quite surprised by the comments I have seen. I certainly hope their reports to their military customers don't include the same 'airing of dirty laundry'. I think they said that the military contract didn't come to fruition. So...
Last edited by D13-th_zaelu; 09/29/15 06:13 AM.
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#4174999 - 09/29/15 05:49 PM
Re: VEAO Hawk Advanced FM is need to be done from scratch.
[Re: Stratos]
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 9
VEAO_Ells
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 9
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Well seeing as I'm being slated here, time to put the record straight.
I am Chris Ellis, Director of VEAO Simulations Ltd for clarity. You don't get any further up the tree in VEAO than me.
So the situation with Tango; Despite repeated requests over many months for bug fixes, namely radio and missile lock tone, to name but a few, were never met. Repeated requests for the latest DLL for 1.2.16 and dev version of DCS so you guys could carry on flying it and ED testers could test it, were never met. Repeatedly Tango's remarks on ED forums and to their devs directly were met with me being "bollocked" by ED for his comments. This is the situation that became untenable to work with.
There was also an incident at Duxford last year regarding the C-101, of which Tango and I discussed at length, to which he still holds me responsible even though the mis-understanding was on his part. Following that incident the relationship was strained to say the least.
Then then was a very sensitive issue with a number of our developers I won't go into for contractual reasons.
Tango does not own up to his own actions, nor does he accept that he is in the wrong, ever. We have had many "discussions" on this point in person and via emails. Yes every one has their faults as do all of us but we are in contract and develop with ED, so guess what, abide by their rules or get out of developing for DCS.
As to the code, yes we are in possession of the code after fulfilling the agreement with Tango. The structure of his code simply does not fit with the structure of dual seat integration. Yes we could fix that but as I stated it would be easier to re-write it from scratch. We are "sifting" through the code to fix radios and other issues because quite frankly, despite numerous requests, I had no response from Tango and we had to allocate another developer to Hawk.
So, cut all the #%&*$# speculation guys and quit slagging me off and I welcome the challenge for "open defence" on a non-censored discussion forum.
Take your best shot!! Chris
Last edited by Ells228; 09/29/15 07:51 PM.
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#4175010 - 09/29/15 06:04 PM
Re: VEAO Hawk Advanced FM is need to be done from scratch.
[Re: VEAO_Ells]
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,188
Force10
I'm just a
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I'm just a
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,188
CA
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Hello Ells228 (Chris), First off...welcome to SimHQ! I'm sure your appearance here isn't because of optimal circumstances...but we appreciate any insight into the situation. Most of us here at SimHQ are just consumers and not really looped in to the in's and out's of being a software developer. I understand your frustrations about speculation...but the cloak and dagger nature of flight sim development leaves the average customer without much to go on. One thing seems pretty clear...being a 3rd party developer for ED seems to be a difficult endeavor given that there are many aspects that are out of your control using someone else's engine. I would like to remind everyone to keep the discussion civil and try to avoid personal insults.
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Oddball from Kelly's Heroes: "If we're late, it's cause we're dead"
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#4175031 - 09/29/15 06:39 PM
Re: VEAO Hawk Advanced FM is need to be done from scratch.
[Re: VEAO_Ells]
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 481
Mustang60348
Member
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Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 481
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Well seeing as I'm being slated here, time to put the record straight.
I am Chris Ellis, Director of VEAO Simulations Ltd for clarity. You don't get any further up the tree in VEAO than me.
So the situation with Tango; Despite repeated requests over many months for bug fixes, namely radio and missile lock tone, to name but a few, were never met. Repeated requests for the latest DLL for 1.2.16 and dev version of DCS so you guys could carry on flying it and ED testers could test it, were never met. Repeatedly Tango's remarks on ED forums and to their devs directly were met with me being "bollocked" by ED for his comments. This is the situation that became untenable to work with.
There was also an incident at Duxford last year regarding the C-101, of which Tango and I discussed at length, to which he still holds me responsible even though the mis-understanding was on his part. Following that incident the relationship was strained to say the least.
Then then was a very sensitive issue with a number of our developers I won't go into for contractual reasons.
Tango does not own up to his own actions, nor does he accept that he is in the wrong, ever. We have had many "discussions" on this point in person and via emails. Yes ED have their faults as do all of us but we are in contract and develop with them, so guess what, abide by their rules or get out of developing for DCS.
As to the code, yes we are in possession of the code after fulfilling the agreement with Tango. The structure of his code simply does not fit with the structure of dual seat integration. Yes we could fix that but as I stated it would be easier to re-write it from scratch. We are "sifting" through the code to fix radios and other issues because quite frankly, despite numerous requests, I had no response from Tango and we had to allocate another developer to Hawk.
So, cut all the #%&*$# speculation guys and quit slagging me off and I welcome the challenge for "open defence" on a non-censored discussion forum.
Take your best shot!! Chris Bravo Chris, Bravo.
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Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
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