Hear, hear!

That would make BoS fun (with the ability to start over again after you've finished). With that, and the ability to have multiple pilot personalities running at the same time, I would have 2 bomber pilots, 2 jabo pilots, and 2 fighter pilots running concurrently (one for each side). This ability to compare my SP pilot progress with the rest of the community...toss it out for the above. This is what Loft doesn't get. He thinks its always about the head to head against other humans even in SP. I think that's part of what drove his current SP concept. Most SP players could care less how the guy across town is doing in his SP campaign.

I did use the phrase "It may be due". If your recurring amazement is not due to a reading comprehension problem, then it must be attributable to something else.



This is at least the third time you have referenced that PM conversation that we had where I used that word. Apparently, you wish to hash this out again, in public.

What I said (replied to you with) was:


You then questioned my use of the word "bait". The relevant portion of my reply:


After that, you still wanted an explanation as to how that initial post could be described as "bait".
The relevant portion of my reply:




And that would be incorrect. What I was saying is that post (containing that opinion) would predictably attract contrary opinions.

As for the continuing thread, many of the replies were to what other people said. Reading through the thread, it is obvious that it is not all about your opinion.



As I have already stated, I do not view the thread as a "problem". Thus, there is no fault to be assigned for it.



I typically address things I conclude that I need to, or wish to. To do otherwise, makes little sense.



This thread's initial post, by you, did not 'simply announce the sale'. It included an opinion. The thread did not "go off from the track", as you set it upon a track that includes opinion in your initial post.

If you wanted to simply announce the sale, you already knew how to do that. Reference the previously mentioned Dev Diary announcement:

You elected to do otherwise. By the time I moved the thread to the Extended Discussion section, it already warranted being there. The move didn't cause the thread to have opinions in it. It already had opinions, beginning from the initial post.



Uh-huh. I'll point out that you have directed derogatory remarks at SimHQ, this sub-forum, and at me, on multiple occasions. To date, I have not even given you a warning over any of them, let alone time off. You may not have realized it, but you have been the beneficiary of leeway here, along with others. I suspect an equivalent sort of leeway would not be reciprocated over on the 1CGS BoS forums.

As for the "It may be due to a reading comprehension problem." remark, it should be noted that there are two types of reading comprehension problem. There is lack of ability, and there is lack of proper application. You are an intelligent person, and I have no reason to doubt that you have the ability. Your repeated expressions of amazement, and dragging things into the public discussion that were already explained to you in PMs... well that is grounds to suspect that you are either not properly applying reading comprehension, or that there is something else going on. Good luck with that.



If exaggeration and self defeating statements are "spot on" for you, that probably says more than my reply did.



Actually, what I have said in the past is, "Their house, their rules", in reference to 1CGS and the official BoS forums. As I recall, it was in response to someone complaining about something that occurred over there.

Evidently, it did not occur to you that there was nothing preventing you from reposting a new sale announcement on the top level. But worry not, I'm doing it for you. I'll even lock it for you.

As is your usual MO you post more than you read.

These so-called changes have already been explained and understood and commemted upon, in this thread and elsewhere.

BlackSix intends to add a handmade mission to the start of each chapter of the Groundhog Day Campaign.

Do you really think that's enough of an improvement to sway those that are dissatisfied with the existing Single Player offering?

To me it sounds like little more than sprinkling sugar over a turd sandwich.
Yes, of course I like sugar, thanks must go to BlackSix for providing ... but it doesn't actually change anything really.

people asked if there would be a new campaign for the new maps.....

"A little off topic question: When the summer maps come out...is there a way for the folks that have completed the campaign to re-fly the whole campaign over in the new terrain? Will there be a new campaign to go with the new terrain?"


I posted a link to provide info asked for, don't get bent out of shape and start with the insulting attitude...your usual MO

Cheers Dakpilot

Neither did you answer the question nor did I get bent out of shape.

Your questioner asked about a new campaign for the new maps.

Your link went into the following detail:



Nice try.

Still, direct question again: Do you really think that's enough of an improvement to sway those that are dissatisfied with the existing Single Player offering?

And before the little snippet you posted, from the link it says this

"As you know, we'll be releasing a major addon to Battle of Stalingrad this fall. It will feature new summer and autumn seasonal maps and a new single player campaign that will tell the history of military operations and battles from late August till mid November, 1942. And before you start asking - yes, the campaign starts at noon on August 23rd when the city had already suffered from Luftwaffe's massive bomb raids. Why are we not starting Chapter I in July 1942? Well, you already know the answer: we don't have enough resources to build a copy if the city with undamaged buildings within the time limits.

Alright, beck to the campaign. It will consist of three chapters and will inherit the general structure of the campaign that we have now (and that was completed entirely by so many of you). However this time we have a chance to experiment and try new things. And since the addon is going to be released quite soon, we'll have enough time to get your feedback, examine it, and make necessary corrections it our plans for the bigger campaign in BOM."

How was my link in anyway incorrect or a "nice try"

Dev diary 102 is about the campaign for the new maps , a question was asked,,,"Will there be a new campaign to go with the new terrain?"


I posted the link, nothing more

What are you going on about?

Cheers Dakpilot

I am not going to get into a pi$$ing match with you over this... This particular thread could have gone differently. My merely stating that at $40 BoS was a good buy or a no brainber as I actually said should not have solicited all this BS. You can say what you want .. but it should not have.. and you may not realize it but a lot of what Hooves said is true.

I did not create another thread because I did not want it to go the way of the first one and given the way it was pounced upon sometimes I don't know what to post over here for fear of offending the regulars since far too often not justwhat I post but how I post it, why I posted it and even when I post it has at various times become a heated topic of discussion and derogatory comments directed at me....

Thank you for reposting the sale notice.

Meanwhile.. since this particular thread has totally derailed anyway..



I know this was directed at Dak.. but I am just adding my two cents..

I don't think we will be able to answer that till we actually get it.. and some of those who have BoS and have a good idea of what they want in a SP campaign and have been most dissatisfied with what is currently offered .. like many here .. would be in a better position to judge that once they get it.. but they will have to at least try it.. I am not a SP guy.. as in campaigns .. I can do it but it is not my main determinant of whether or not a sim will float my boat or not.. but I really hope that they have made the necessary changes or at least some adequate changes to make the SP campaign more bearable.

When I think of SP I break SP down in to two aspects.. the QM and the overall sim itself as in the AI and the variation on what can be done in a QM and all that .. and the Campaign.. Because I never have been a strong fan of SP campaigns.. I wasn't against them but they just never really grabbed me.. but because I was never a huge fan I was never in a position to judge that single aspect of what BoS was about.. and what I did experience even from my limited perspective was... tedious .. to be kind.. By the time they removed the unlocks I had completed the campaign and unlocked everything.. I often wonder if the unlocks had not been implemented from the start would people have been more willing to get through the campaign before they threw upo their hands.. Having said all that I really hope that the SP aspect as far as campaigns go gets fixed if not to the total satisfaction of those who have not found any pleasure in it at least to a level where they will be able to find enough in the sim to get something out of it other than complete frustration.

I'm not disappointed to read this:

"Among the ideas that were abandoned there was old IL-2 static missions. I understand that it could sound really disappointing to some pilots but such missions would be an impossible task for the team. The significantly more complex editor and massive briefing texts that need to be translated properly into several languages make creation of 2 campaign with at least 20 missions each a really big problem. Speaking of time, we'd need up to 10 months for that."
- BlackSix

Those typical static type campaigns are IMO the least appealing or approachable type of gameplay. And to hear how costly they are to produce is less reason to include them. The biggest problem with these kind of campaigns is that flight sims can't save progress like every other type of game so the player just gets forced to repeat these hour long static missions and it gets boring really quick. And having the option to skip them is sorta pointless too.

The random style mission generator like is in the RoF Career, Pat Wilson or the BoS campaign are much more appealing. They're unpredictable and offer just an endless supply of missions. BoS has a good feature allowing the player to choose long or short missions, which doesn't work with the traditional static scripted style. It sound like now they're offering a bit of both styles which sounds great.

There's this app being created that turns the BoS campaign into a Career Generator. It fills in the missing pilot personality feature. It's very well done.
http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/1739...-russ/?p=273710

"Among the ideas that were abandoned there was old IL-2 static missions. I understand that it could sound really disappointing to some pilots but such missions would be an impossible task for the team. The significantly more complex editor and massive briefing texts that need to be translated properly into several languages make creation of 2 campaign with at least 20 missions each a really big problem. Speaking of time, we'd need up to 10 months for that."
- BlackSix

Or 1CGS could add the functionality to create in-game campaigns from community created missions like can be done in RoF. That would take significantly less time and open the doors for infinite content.

I think 1CGS might have a problem with "infinite content." It still appears they want to spoon feed us the SP content without the ability to reset it for replay. In essence, creating a consumable throw away now buy the next chapter product. I would buy the next chapter in any case if there were infinite community content for each.

I would love to be wrong.

There are already people working on parsers or utilities that extract the results out of the game to create careers or track stats. The career generator only works with the official campaign I think. But I don't see why that same idea can't be used to make other career campaigns. Enough people seem interested in making that happen.

Or 1C/777 could include the features that people expect from a title with IL2 in the name.

Or they could simply use the IL2 brand to peddle their sim-lite vision, and watch as the community destroys itself with arguing and in-fighting. In the meantime fewer people play the game they bought and fewer people purchase future add-ons.

Not the business model I'd have chosen.

Agreed.

Why in the world they departed so far from the ROF model, which apparently was successful, is beyond me.
First thing I did when BOS was announced, was download the free version of ROF, gave it a spin even though WWI was not really my bag, and then pretty quickly purchased the ICE edition. After tasting the career mode I was excited about what BOS would bring in that department. Hopefully even better.
Boy was I wrong.

I know we've discussed this stuff over and over again...but from where I sit they totally missed the mark on making you "feel" a part of anything in the single player/campaign design. The best...was the high standard like the original series IL-2....that has a complete mission result debriefing....The chalk board...with pilots name chalked in.....giving you a feel for historical unit cohesiveness, the back at base life..The chance to grab some sleep before the next sortie. It had some historical photographs intermingled....the option to place your own photo on your pilot...Maybe a brief video clip with real footage....Everything was done to pull you into the story line. You wanted to get back to base...to see your name up on that board. To be glad you weren't one of the others listed as KIA, or Missing.

I don't know all the details..on how the DGEN was interfaced into the system along with DCG and I don't know how long it took, but that series evolved into a SP standard for sure. I mean...just the options and variables within DCG were amazing.

I agree with J9.

I was among those expecting at least something similiar to RoF campaign when BoS was announced.
It would be a huge difference to present SP state and much, much less of dissappointed single players.

Let's hope that guy who undertook to make PWCG-like SP campaign generator for BoS will succeed...

I think this is what 99% of the pre purchasers and purchasers in general were basing their decision off of. Hence why there has been such a sh^t storm over BOS.

I'm hoping BOM pre orders opened their eyes.

They departed from it because they didn't feel it was a success. Which is totally false, I think they thought a WWI game could compete with a WWII game, which is really hard to do. WWI is a niche inside a niche. SO Loft had idea that he stubbornly stuck to. I still contend 1 simple sentence would get a lot of people back. Simply "We are sorry, you all were right, we were wrong" obviously it would have to be an honest statement with some proof, but i think many would come back. Some are to jaded, but it would be a start.

I'll wager that sentence is not one which Zhiltsov will utter, let alone with any sincerity to correct his not one step back mindset.

If he did it would win back many, I agree!

I also don't understand.
Maybe it's because it wasn't that successful (commercially), or because it took too much resources to complete.
But I agree that it was probably what lots of SP players were waiting and so that they didn't understood why the RoF career wasn't transposed to BoS.

Which I never understood.. Two entirely different markets. It never ceases to amaze me how no one to date has tried to capitalize on the IL2 formula for success as far as features and scalability goes.. Developers keep trying to reinvent the wheel when the formula is simple and doable.