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#4162623 - 08/29/15 01:09 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: CyBerkut]  
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Originally Posted By: CyBerkut
It may be due to a reading comprehension problem.


Yes, Bearcat (and me also) are mentally deficient... it's a well known fact.

#4162626 - 08/29/15 01:22 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: CyBerkut]  
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Originally Posted By: CyBerkut
Originally Posted By: Bearcat99
Oh so all these pages are my fault.... Because I said it was a no brainer ..

Amazing......


Your amazement appears to be a recurring theme. It may be due to a reading comprehension problem. I did not say there was any 'fault' at all. I do not view discussion with opposing views being presented as a problem that needs to have a fault assigned to it.

I did not attribute all of the ensuing 14 pages (so far), to that remark. However, it was easily predictable that such an assertion would attract contrary opinions. The stated amazement at such contrary opinions showing up, followed up by someone else's assessment as them being ridiculous along with a question, etc., predictably lead to more responses. So on and so forth, back and forth with opposing views.

To the extent that anybody else views such a discussion with opposing views being presented as a problem, there is cause to be found in the postings from people on both sides. They react to one another.

For people on one side of the issue to point their fingers at responding people on the other side as if they are committing some offense for having the temerity to post an opposing view, is ridiculous. It's a discussion forum.

As somebody else pointed out, there are sub-forums here at SimHQ where there is not a lot of dissatisfaction being voiced. We have some sub-forums that have some people voicing dissatisfaction with a product/producer/developer. SimHQ hosts discussions in both types of situation. It is not SimHQ's mission to suppress one side of the discussions. People who want that supression can probably find it elsewhere.


There is nothing wrong with my reading comprehension. You told me that I "baited" the people here simply by stating it was a great buy. That sounds to me as if you are saying that the way this thread went was caused by that statement thus my fault. As usual you latch on to what you want to. You could have just moderated the thread when it started to go off track by simply locking it and suggesting someone could just open another thread asking what is BoS worth to you or something along those lines.. giving this thread the chance to remain on the front page of this forum so that it's intended purpose, which was to just make people aware of the sale could be carried out. Instead you just let this thread go off the rails and then moved it to the "extended discussion" section which means basically the usual pissing and moaning fest that has become the hallmark of the SHQ BOS section. This thread simply announcing the sale did not have to be allowed to turn into the multiple page hijacked thing that it has become.

From past experience with you, for me anyway, it is pretty much useless to attempt to engage in any kind of dialog with you on these kinds of issues because 7-8 times out of 10 you tend to rubber stamp whatever it is your fan club is doing or saying and often tossing in that little derogatory remarlk lkke the one about mny reading comprehension, and dissect anything else that is said by others who do not share the general attitude of this forum like you did with Hooves' post.. but Hooves is spot on.

Like you always say.. your house .. your rules.. carry on.


Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
#4162627 - 08/29/15 01:25 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: dburne]  
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Originally Posted By: dburne
Not quite, the poll came out on Oct 14th, just shortly after the release of the unlocks and SP campaign system to the EA folks.

You're wrong and Dakpilot is correct. I launched the poll on the subject on 2013, July 6.
You can find it there

Quote:
The poll was a result of the large amount of backlash from the EA member that were quite surprised. The official release was on Oct 22nd, so no the poll did not come out a year before release, and prior to the system being unveiled to EA in early Oct, there was not much discussion.

If peoples were surprised, it's either because they forgot about the poll and the large amount of discussions that took part a year before.... or because they refused to believe what the corresponding DD was announcing... even if I and others had big discussions about (I allways was against unlocks), and if I opened a clear poll for everyone to give his opinion.

I don't know if the public reaction was "relevant" or not... but it certainly wasn't a surprise to me.

Last edited by Rama; 08/29/15 01:27 PM.
#4162630 - 08/29/15 01:29 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: Bearcat99]  
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Cyberkut is probably the most fair moderator I have ever seen on a forum.


Don

EVGA X-79 Dark MB|I-7 4820K@4.50 GHz|EVGA 1080 Ti FTW3|16GB Corsair Dominator PC2133 Ram|Oculus Rift CV1|Virpil T-50 stick, Warthog throttle|MFG Crosswind Pedals
#4162631 - 08/29/15 01:37 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: dburne]  
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Originally Posted By: dburne
Cyberkut is probably the most fair moderator I have ever seen on a forum.

In the moderator's job (moderating posts and removing direct insulting comments), he certainly is.
When entering a discussion, he's as biased as everyone.

#4162634 - 08/29/15 01:40 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: Rama]  
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Originally Posted By: Rama
You're wrong and Dakpilot is correct. I launched the poll on the subject on 2013, July 6.
You can find it there


Oh, ok you guys are talking about a poll you launched, not the official 1CGS poll. Guess 1CGS must have missed that poll you posted, else Jason would not have wasted his time posting a new poll about unlocks on Oct 14th. But I am glad he did, as it at least did result in a removal of the unlocks for at least the Premium buyers. And he posted it as a result of the huge amount of backlash, some of which was even by members posting here in this thread that are currently large supports again of the product.

Originally Posted By: Rama
If peoples were surprised, it's either because they forgot about the poll and the large amount of discussions that took part a year before.... or because they refused to believe what the corresponding DD was announcing...
I don't know if the public reaction was "relevant" or not... but it certainly wasn't a surprise to me.


If people were surprised? You don't remember? The huge amount of outcry from these surprised people?
Sorry, the history is there.


Don

EVGA X-79 Dark MB|I-7 4820K@4.50 GHz|EVGA 1080 Ti FTW3|16GB Corsair Dominator PC2133 Ram|Oculus Rift CV1|Virpil T-50 stick, Warthog throttle|MFG Crosswind Pedals
#4162635 - 08/29/15 01:44 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: Rama]  
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Originally Posted By: Rama
When entering a discussion, he's as biased as everyone.


You are certainly entitled to an opinion as am I , which by the way are allowed here thankfully, in my opinion he shows no bias, he does not even have a dog in the hunt as he does not own the product to my knowledge.


Don

EVGA X-79 Dark MB|I-7 4820K@4.50 GHz|EVGA 1080 Ti FTW3|16GB Corsair Dominator PC2133 Ram|Oculus Rift CV1|Virpil T-50 stick, Warthog throttle|MFG Crosswind Pedals
#4162637 - 08/29/15 01:47 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: dburne]  
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Originally Posted By: dburne
Oh, ok you guys are talking about a poll you launched, not the official 1CGS poll.

What's the difference for the question about when the unlocks were discussed?

Quote:
Guess 1CGS must have missed that poll you posted, else Jason would not have wasted his time posting a new poll about unlocks on Oct 14th.

Wrong Guess. 1CGS knew about, Jason included, and we had direct discussion about.
When Jason opened the new poll and closed mine, it was because he thought the poll question needed a better wording.

Quote:
If people were surprised? You don't remember? The huge amount of outcry from these surprised people?
Sorry, the history is there.

Please read the sentence.... fully...
I's a common rhetorical style, "if... then...". It doesn't imply peoples were not surprised, it gives two possible reasons why they have been.

Last edited by Rama; 08/29/15 01:52 PM.
#4162638 - 08/29/15 01:48 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: dburne]  
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Originally Posted By: dburne
Cyberkut is probably the most fair moderator I have ever seen on a forum.


Be all that as it may very well be.. this did not have to become what it became.. I guess I just forgot that over here I have to meticulously consider every jot and title of any post I make so as not to offend anyone with my blasphemous comments ......

How dare I say that BoS is a good buy at $40 and even suggest that someone who did not have it at all and was curious might want to consider spending what amounts to a case of Corona and dinner for two at Chipotle.. and insinuate that they might actually enjoy it.



Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
#4162640 - 08/29/15 01:49 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: Bearcat99]  
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Lol, ok then I have read enough.


Don

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#4162645 - 08/29/15 01:57 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: Dakpilot]  
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Originally Posted By: Dakpilot

The only change to the SP campaign was the lack of historical regiments etc....99% of DD content has been delivered


In a bullet point count, possibly, but in development effort and impact to gameplay the missing bullet point represents 6 months of development missing from the game. For many SP players that missing content was everything. For many SP players there is no game now. What amazes me is how some can claim not to understand why SP players don't like BoS.

The 400 lbs gorilla in the room is the lack of SP content in BoS. And the slow sales of BoM early access are directly related to this. Talk won't sell BoS/BoM to single players. SP content will.

What is said here on SimHQ pales in comparison to the word of mouth from the tens of thousands of BoS customers who don't read SimHQ. 1CGS has a much much larger problem than SimHQ.

If 1CGS were to weigh the lack of SP content in BoS vs bad word of mouth on SimHQ in evaluating BoM early access sales they will go out of business if they find SimHQ to be the primary problem.

If you follow the logic that BoS was targeted for beginners who couldn't digest complex SP content, well guess what, all your BoS customers are now no longer beginners so BoM better have SP content for advanced players also or it will fall on it's face straight out of the gate. And yet all indications are that 1CGS will be using primarily the same SP content design in BoM that is in BoS with just a few tweaks. Nothing that 1CGS does makes any sense.

And the overall vibe coming from the BoS community seems to be "hush, we need to keep this SP content problem on the lowdown." "You're a trouble maker if you communicate this fact." That's ridiculous! Can you imagine a meeting at 1CGS with just one person who had a modicum of sense about marketing hearing "Our primary customers are single players but we are going to release this product with poor single player content and we need to keep a lid on it. Can you help us out with containing word of mouth." The person would get up and walk out.

Whatever kind of coup Loft pulled off in the 11th hour of BoS development looks like a complete collapse of their business model to me. And all the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put it back together again. Sometimes its impossible to make sense out of nonsense. One bullet point can mean a lot.



Dogfighting is what you do "after" you drop your bombs and blow something up!
Can you say "JABO!" thumbsup
#4162646 - 08/29/15 02:00 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: dburne]  
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Originally Posted By: dburne
in my opinion he shows no bias, he does not even have a dog in the hunt as he does not own the product to my knowledge.

No bias => no discussion.
If someone consider every opinion to be equal to the others and is indifferent to these, then he doesn't enter the discussion.... since entering an opinion discussion is to challenge someone's opinion... except if you just want to troll.
Nobody's perfect (and it's a good thing, perfection is a bore).

#4162647 - 08/29/15 02:02 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: Rama]  
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Originally Posted By: Rama
Please read the sentence.... fully...
I's a common rhetorical style, "if... then...". It doesn't imply peoples were not surprised, it gives two possible reasons why they have been.


Actually it does.

Definition:

conjunction: if



1. introducing a conditional clause.

synonyms: on (the) condition that, provided (that), providing (that), presuming (that), supposing (that), assuming (that).

In this case, the word "if: would be used to state people may or may not have been surprised, not two reasons why they might have been.


Last edited by dburne; 08/29/15 02:04 PM.

Don

EVGA X-79 Dark MB|I-7 4820K@4.50 GHz|EVGA 1080 Ti FTW3|16GB Corsair Dominator PC2133 Ram|Oculus Rift CV1|Virpil T-50 stick, Warthog throttle|MFG Crosswind Pedals
#4162650 - 08/29/15 02:07 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: Bearcat99]  
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Oh please....

Not everybody was surprised.
If some were surprised, then....

It gives absolutely no estimation about the amount of peoples that have been surprised... and certainly don't imply that nobody was.

So your reaction was totally irrelevant.

#4162651 - 08/29/15 02:10 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: Rama]  
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Originally Posted By: Rama

So your reaction was totally irrelevant.


thumbsup


Don

EVGA X-79 Dark MB|I-7 4820K@4.50 GHz|EVGA 1080 Ti FTW3|16GB Corsair Dominator PC2133 Ram|Oculus Rift CV1|Virpil T-50 stick, Warthog throttle|MFG Crosswind Pedals
#4162652 - 08/29/15 02:11 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: Rama]  
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Originally Posted By: Rama

So your reaction was totally irrelevant.


Yes, the reaction of customers is totally irrelevant dizzy


Dogfighting is what you do "after" you drop your bombs and blow something up!
Can you say "JABO!" thumbsup
#4162656 - 08/29/15 02:17 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: MiG21bisFishbedL]  
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Originally Posted By: MiG21bisFishbedL
Originally Posted By: SharpeXB
Originally Posted By: lokitexas
no mention of unlocks or how they are achieved till the end of EA,

This is not true.

The unlocks were announced and described here on 05 July 2013
http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/168-developer-diary/?p=13594

Early Access Pre Order began on 26 July 2013
http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/802-il-2-sturmovik-battle-stalingrad-pre-order-program/?p=14670

The unlocks were announced before EA even began.


And then a poll was created shortly after that indicated that almost no one liked them.

Despite that, they still went through with the idea.

Yes they listened to the opinions of players and that poll, they changed they system to give the player a means to bypass them if they want by owning the premium edition.


Velocity Micro PC | Asus Z97-A | i7-4790K @4.7GHz | Corsair H80iGT Liquid CPU Cooler | 32GB DDR3-1600MHz Memory | EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC 11GB | 240gb Intel 520 Series SSD | 850 W Corsair PSU | Windows 10 Home | Samsung U28D590D UHD 28" Monitor | Bose Companion 5 Speakers | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5
#4162657 - 08/29/15 02:21 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: KodiakJac]  
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Originally Posted By: Bucksnort
Yes, the reaction of customers is totally irrelevant


Explain to me how "dburne reaction about a rhetorical sentence" = "customers reaction about (anything)?"

Mmmmmmm.... dizzy

Last edited by Rama; 08/29/15 02:23 PM.
#4162661 - 08/29/15 02:39 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: dburne]  
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Originally Posted By: dburne

If people were surprised? You don't remember? The huge amount of outcry from these surprised people?
Sorry, the history is there.

The "surprise" of discovering the unlocks is really quite amazing given the fact that not only were they announced in the Dev Diaries but from day one your game screen contained a menu called "UNLOCKS" just like it does today.

And not all the feedback this feature received initially was bad.
http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/750-developer-diary-part-xxiii/?p=13593

This "surprise" just shows how little attention people pay despite all their fervor.


Velocity Micro PC | Asus Z97-A | i7-4790K @4.7GHz | Corsair H80iGT Liquid CPU Cooler | 32GB DDR3-1600MHz Memory | EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC 11GB | 240gb Intel 520 Series SSD | 850 W Corsair PSU | Windows 10 Home | Samsung U28D590D UHD 28" Monitor | Bose Companion 5 Speakers | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5
#4162668 - 08/29/15 02:48 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: SharpeXB]  
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Originally Posted By: SharpeXB

This "surprise" just shows how little attention people pay despite all their fervor.


Sorry you can not rewrite history, all the surprise by the many, along with all the backlash was there for all to see.
Very plain and simple.


Don

EVGA X-79 Dark MB|I-7 4820K@4.50 GHz|EVGA 1080 Ti FTW3|16GB Corsair Dominator PC2133 Ram|Oculus Rift CV1|Virpil T-50 stick, Warthog throttle|MFG Crosswind Pedals
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