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#4162257 - 08/28/15 03:16 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: Chuck_Owl]  
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Originally Posted By: Chuck_Owl
I regret wasting so much time on writing that 250 pages long guide (which is now obsolete anyway) and on trying to convince myself to keep flying BoS.

I'm in an overall much better mood (lower blood pressure and all that) since I quit playing it. I can't say I miss it since the vast majority of the people I liked flying with quit BoS as well.


That guide is still awesome Chuck and thanks for doing it. A great piece of work..with a little humor mixed in the details.

#4162258 - 08/28/15 03:19 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: Bearcat99]  
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I'll second that... I value all of his guides smile

#4162266 - 08/28/15 03:41 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: Hooves]  
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Originally Posted By: Hooves
I think you are mistaking the relation between your quest for vengence and the lack of visitors to THIS flightsim sight. Most peoe.stopped coming around here for.BoS discussion due to the ludicrous waving a pitch forks by a few very vocal (read you and about 4 other) forum lurkers.


Why have most people stopped flying BoS multi-player in the U.S. When I checked at 9:15pm Eastern (U.S. prime time for the Eastern and Central time zones) the other night there were 6 people on all of the BoS online servers on the entire planet combined.

Fact. Not hostile. A year after release and BoS has 6 U.S. prime time players that night. I have found MP servers during U.S. prime time to be this badly populated quite often. Every now and then there is a little flurry of activity, but more often than not the servers have less than 10 players. What went wrong?

Note: This is an attempt at normal discourse without omgz.


Dogfighting is what you do "after" you drop your bombs and blow something up!
Can you say "JABO!" thumbsup
#4162275 - 08/28/15 04:03 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: Hooves]  
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Force10 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hooves


I think you are mistaking the relation between your quest for vengence and the lack of visitors to THIS flightsim sight. Most peoe.stopped coming around here for.BoS discussion due to the ludicrous waving a pitch forks by a few very vocal (read you and about 4 other) forum lurkers.

The activity on the main boards are alive with activity. Routinely 2 pages of new posts to browse through. We just got don't planning the next online campaign with Tx_Tip. And have several threads on improvements we'd like to see mysteriously, NoOne has been banned for discussing these subjects and there hasn't been an insult pedaled yet. WOW I know right! Must be all that civility being given used to calmly discuss things.

At this point the the only thing I'd like to discuss with you is other games, as I know you can't objectively discuss BoS, as the the sound of the name sends you I to a factless, embarassing to watch, temper tantrum... that's why I asked what other games you play.

But Witcher 3 you say? I have not tried the Witcher series, I'll give it a look.



You can correct me if I'm wrong...but wasn't it you and Aborted Man that blew the lid off the whole forum booster scandal? Aborted Man made a negative post about BOS in the forum and you guys got The Eagles Nest server taken away...right?

It's a little ironic that the two of you single handedly exposed the developer's somewhat questionable practices...and caused enough dis-trust with this developer to last a lifetime...if I remember correctly that is.

It seems you have mended fences with the devs and got your server back...so good on you for that. It's kinda sad that the only way you can host a multiplayer game in BOS is if you put in a request that can be denied unless you're a good boy on the forums.

All I'm saying is that maybe you shouldn't be too harsh and pass judgement on your fellow simmers that don't fly MP and are still waiting to get their $100 worth out of this game. According to the developers, this SP focused title will not get any more SP improvements...ever.

As far as the sale goes...$40 is still not worth it for myself since I have to go back to 1946 to get my SP enjoyment.

Peace.

wink


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#4162288 - 08/28/15 04:45 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: Bearcat99]  
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I think you should read Dev diary 102 before you state as a fact that according to the Dev;s there will NEVER be any changes/improvements to the SP aspect, and also consider the many posts Jason has made about intentions of improving the 'classic' type of SP

Cheers Dakpilot

#4162290 - 08/28/15 04:46 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: Bearcat99]  
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My son put in a request for a server the other day and got hooked up really fast. We have one where he and I can practice and fly missions together. For me personally...I have satellite connection at my home, so I setup my medium build gaming computer at my office......just so I could fly online. So I drive 10 miles into the office to play. I've downloaded utilities...missions, and the like to give me a single player career feel as well for my setup here at home. You're right...the game standalone..just doesn't cut it, but I'm overcoming that with the third party tools.

My point is....sometimes you've got to actually adapt to the reality of the way it is.....to make something work. DCG evolved for IL-2.....other utilities for BOS will as well. Many of us knew that the EA fee of 100 allowed us to track the game through development. We knew it was helping to fund BOS, and I agree that BOS was not what I thought it would be in it's final stages. I also signed onto BOM....it might not turn out the way I want...but I'll adapt as well.

Everyone on this forum knows how upset I've been with the Dev's and especially Jason for treating the supporters with condescending responses on the BOS Forum...But when he finally answered my concerns..good or bad...I moved on, and I'm kind of embarrassed for how worked up I allowed myself to get.

The reason I'll move on is because WWII CFS is not just one of many gaming interest for me, it's my passion, my hobby.
Many of us..and I'm only guessing...like AbortedMan went through those times....and weighed our passion for the genre with the hard times....and just moved on. From what I've seen here lately....most everyone playing that I know..is damn glad they weathered the storm....

#4162298 - 08/28/15 04:55 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: Trooper117]  
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Originally Posted By: Trooper117

Quote:
But has some great regulars. Jedi, wise as always, and the rest....well hostile as always.


I think you would be hard pushed to view any of my posts as hostile... that sort of comment is guaranteed to put peoples backs up.



Ditto and agreed.

#4162299 - 08/28/15 05:00 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: Dakpilot]  
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Originally Posted By: Dakpilot
I think you should read Dev diary 102 before you state as a fact that according to the Dev;s there will NEVER be any changes/improvements to the SP aspect, and also consider the many posts Jason has made about intentions of improving the 'classic' type of SP

Cheers Dakpilot


Just re-read it. I guess it will be a wait and see affair...I still don't see anything in there that resembles a ROF or IL-2 type career system though. You have to fly 1 mission for each side first before you can continue? Kind of an immersion killer...but who knows.


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#4162328 - 08/28/15 05:46 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: Force10]  
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Originally Posted By: Force10
Originally Posted By: Dakpilot
I think you should read Dev diary 102 before you state as a fact that according to the Dev;s there will NEVER be any changes/improvements to the SP aspect, and also consider the many posts Jason has made about intentions of improving the 'classic' type of SP

Cheers Dakpilot


Just re-read it. I guess it will be a wait and see affair...I still don't see anything in there that resembles a ROF or IL-2 type career system though. You have to fly 1 mission for each side first before you can continue? Kind of an immersion killer...but who knows.


Surely, all Zak's said is this will simply be the Groundhog Day 'campaign' with a hand-made mission at the start of each chapter.
I sincerely hope it's something more interesting but apparently, because they "don't have resources", I fear it will be nowhere near enough of an improvement to the current lacklustre effort.

#4162369 - 08/28/15 06:33 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: Force10]  
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Originally Posted By: Hooves

I think you are mistaking the relation between your quest for vengence and the lack of visitors to THIS flightsim sight. Most peoe.stopped coming around here for.BoS discussion due to the ludicrous waving a pitch forks by a few very vocal (read you and about 4 other) forum lurkers.

The activity on the main boards are alive with activity. Routinely 2 pages of new posts to browse through. We just got don't planning the next online campaign with Tx_Tip. And have several threads on improvements we'd like to see mysteriously, NoOne has been banned for discussing these subjects and there hasn't been an insult pedaled yet. WOW I know right! Must be all that civility being given used to calmly discuss things.


At this point the the only thing I'd like to discuss with you is other games, as I know you can't objectively discuss BoS, as the the sound of the name sends you I to a factless, embarassing to watch, temper tantrum... that's why I asked what other games you play.


Come on Hooves.. you know the only reason things are the way they are on the "dead" IL2 boards is because the overbearing biased moderation stifles any criticism of BoS and toes the "party line" .. neaner yep

Originally Posted By: lokitexas

I guess it the same way I see BC's 6 paragraph, highlighted, and underlines posts, as bitter, whiney, and over the top.


I guess I should be grateful that you are in a minority...

Originally Posted By: Trooper117

Quote:
But has some great regulars. Jedi, wise as always, and the rest....well hostile as always.


I think you would be hard pushed to view any of my posts as hostile... that sort of comment is guaranteed to put peoples backs up.


Maybe so but if you are honest about it it is pretty accurate... not in the blanket sense of course.. but..

Originally Posted By: Force10

You can correct me if I'm wrong...but wasn't it you and Aborted Man that blew the lid off the whole forum booster scandal? Aborted Man made a negative post about BOS in the forum and you guys got The Eagles Nest server taken away...right?

It's a little ironic that the two of you single handedly exposed the developer's somewhat questionable practices...and caused enough dis-trust with this developer to last a lifetime...if I remember correctly that is.

It seems you have mended fences with the devs and got your server back...so good on you for that. It's kinda sad that the only way you can host a multiplayer game in BOS is if you put in a request that can be denied unless you're a good boy on the forums.

All I'm saying is that maybe you shouldn't be too harsh and pass judgement on your fellow simmers that don't fly MP and are still waiting to get their $100 worth out of this game. According to the developers, this SP focused title will not get any more SP improvements...ever.

As far as the sale goes...$40 is still not worth it for myself since I have to go back to 1946 to get my SP enjoyment.
Peace.
wink


I cannot speak for Hooves.. but I have said all along that incident was blown way out of proportion. It was never from my understanding the vast nefarious mind control conspiracy that so many over here made it out to be. Perhaps Hooves can shed some light on that fact.. Even in the above quoted post the insinuation that could easily be taken from the post is that there was some kind of quid pro quo going on with getting that server back up as opposed to a manly (paraphrased cause I wan't there) Look let's just bury the hatchet and move on kind of thing..

Truth be told to this day I never understood the intensity of the vitriol leveled at this sim or it's developers or anyone associated with it in any way, myself included...

FWIW there is ongoing work in progress that I am not at liberty to discuss that will improve the SP aspect of the sim.. It is not a static project. It s constantly evolving and hopefully as it gets more and more support and popularity in the form of users the team will be able to revisit some things to make it even better .. I have no doubt that the IL2 we will have a year from now will be a much improved product not only in terms of content but form and function as well.


Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
#4162370 - 08/28/15 06:35 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: Force10]  
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Originally Posted By: Force10
Originally Posted By: Hooves


I think you are mistaking the relation between your quest for vengence and the lack of visitors to THIS flightsim sight. Most peoe.stopped coming around here for.BoS discussion due to the ludicrous waving a pitch forks by a few very vocal (read you and about 4 other) forum lurkers.

The activity on the main boards are alive with activity. Routinely 2 pages of new posts to browse through. We just got don't planning the next online campaign with Tx_Tip. And have several threads on improvements we'd like to see mysteriously, NoOne has been banned for discussing these subjects and there hasn't been an insult pedaled yet. WOW I know right! Must be all that civility being given used to calmly discuss things.

At this point the the only thing I'd like to discuss with you is other games, as I know you can't objectively discuss BoS, as the the sound of the name sends you I to a factless, embarassing to watch, temper tantrum... that's why I asked what other games you play.

But Witcher 3 you say? I have not tried the Witcher series, I'll give it a look.



You can correct me if I'm wrong...but wasn't it you and Aborted Man that blew the lid off the whole forum booster scandal? Aborted Man made a negative post about BOS in the forum and you guys got The Eagles Nest server taken away...right?

It's a little ironic that the two of you single handedly exposed the developer's somewhat questionable practices...and caused enough dis-trust with this developer to last a lifetime...if I remember correctly that is.

It seems you have mended fences with the devs and got your server back...so good on you for that. It's kinda sad that the only way you can host a multiplayer game in BOS is if you put in a request that can be denied unless you're a good boy on the forums.

All I'm saying is that maybe you shouldn't be too harsh and pass judgement on your fellow simmers that don't fly MP and are still waiting to get their $100 worth out of this game. According to the developers, this SP focused title will not get any more SP improvements...ever.

As far as the sale goes...$40 is still not worth it for myself since I have to go back to 1946 to get my SP enjoyment.

Peace.

wink


You are Partly correct and mostly mis-informed, which isn't really your fault.

AbortedMan and I did have a falling out of with the studio due to basically an enormous amount of work put in by us with zero input coming in by way of Moscow about what what changes were coming down the pipe (specifically unlocks) which basically trashed about 2 months solid of work.

The server wasn't taken from us, we were given a choice, at which point we said, ok you can have it back.
As far as getting a server now, there are no restrictions, you simply request a server key and it is sent to you. Anyone can apply. The fact that Eagles Nest is back , is really just a partnership between TWB, AB, and Myself. We played along side them for several months until we felt confident that they were a good group, so we offered to let them use AB's mission and take the name. It is a fully self sufficient server with no official ties to anything. Much like any server that is out that doesn't bare an "Official" tagline.

It is true that we have mended fences and I currently enjoy multiplayer events and just pubbing. I guess you can say its true that BoS numbers in NA aren't great, but as Ive checked around, combat flight sims in general suffer pretty badly in the numbers department in NA. Thats BoS, CloD, DCS, and even WT full sim mode. CFS's and full real sims just don't seem to have the appeal they once did, and arcade mode slight games are taking the lions share of the player base.

I never said SP was great, I said new thing are coming around all the time that are making that aspect more fun. That being said I really could give 2 #%&*$# about SP, as the fun I have in Flight sims is the squadron flight aspect. I was simply commenting on the constant stream
of ranting that comes from those that don't even play the game, have not experienced the new content created and generally take 6 month to year old information and run with it for a seemingly endless tyraid.

I also said, to each their own. Which used to mean enjoy as you see fit, but ragging on and on has turned this previously respected Forum into another bannana forums and to be honest, people just avoid the constant thrashing from now unqualified virtual pilots.

Which btw, reminds me its about 2 pm here and the Friday Night Bomber Flights campaign is kicking off, and I have an HE-111 Sitting on the ramp with name on it.

CYA!

(BTW Loki, Witcher does look really good and I think Ill pick it up, its not really my bag, fantasy rpg and all, but the story line looks very wel thought out, thanks for the plug!)

#4162378 - 08/28/15 06:42 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: Bearcat99]  
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Apologies Hooves...my recollection wasn't correct.

wink


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#4162389 - 08/28/15 06:55 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: Bearcat99]  
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Originally Posted By: Bearcat99
Come on Hooves.. you know the only reason things are the way they are on the "dead" IL2 boards is because the overbearing biased moderation stifles any criticism of BoS and toes the "party line" .. neaner yep


Are you serious? you have the nerve to suggest this is not a fact?

Last edited by bongodriver; 08/28/15 06:55 PM.
#4162408 - 08/28/15 07:17 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: Bearcat99]  
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Bearcat,

You seem to have this notion that the only folks that have issues with BOS are the few that are vocal about it here at the SimHQ
forum. I have some new numbers for you:

The first 5 months of the BOS EA purchases for Premium and Standard edition:

8,053

The first 5 months of the BOM EA purchases for Premium and Standard edition:

1,842

So in the same time frame...78% fewer customers purchased the BOM EA then purchased the BOS EA.

Don't you see that as a problem that deserves more attention then the few here that are vocal about the game? Basically...about 3/4 of the folks that bought BOS have walked away from it without voicing anything...or at the very least said "No Thanks" to the BOM EA.

Hooves,

You say you don't give a darn about SP...you should. I'm guessing the 78% comes from mostly the SP crowd that came to the conclusion that this offering isn't for them and strays to far from what we've come to love about the franchise. My point being that I don't think this title can survive financially from MP purchases alone.

smile


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#4162419 - 08/28/15 07:36 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: Bearcat99]  
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Some games can. I don't think BoS/BoM is one of them, because it wasn't designed that way. It just doesn't feel like it was to be an MP-focused sim from day one. Part of me doesn't believe 1C really would've signed off on a plan for that after the success of Il-2s before it. Yes, CloD failed, but it wasn't because they paid too much attention to SP and not enough to MP (its scripted campaigns were a major failing in fact) but rather because their reach exceeded their grasp.

It feels like BoS began its life as a "traditional" SP/MP sim like those that preceded it, but when it came to devoting resources to that design they put the lion's share on MP and never looked back. There has never been a "time to focus on SP for the next couple of updates/months/whatever" report from them, all the areas of improvement have been more applicable to everything in general or MP in particular. In other words, the only real love SP has received has been things that also applied to MP so SP got to benefit as well.
Loft clearly thinks time spent on SP alone is a waste of resources because HE has no interest in that area ergo almost none of the customers are interested. Those who say they do are just a tiny noisy minority easily ignored. No stats are going to convince him he's wrong, because if they were he would've admitted he was wrong already.



The Jedi Master


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#4162442 - 08/28/15 08:25 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: Bearcat99]  
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Originally Posted By: Bearcat99
Truth be told to this day I never understood the intensity of the vitriol leveled at this sim or it's developers or anyone associated with it in any way, myself included...


I have never quite understood the level of vitriol leveled at the consumers, that I have seen done by 1CGS and their faithful on their forums. Some of the faithful have even taken to doing the same, and doing so without worry of anything said about it.

Originally Posted By: Bearcat99

FWIW there is ongoing work in progress that I am not at liberty to discuss that will improve the SP aspect of the sim..


I do hope you are right, as a SP guy I have no desire to fly it in it's current form, and it would take some large improvements to bring me back to it. And no way would I consider purchasing BOM. I have not uninstalled BOS yet as I try to remain hopeful that this will indeed happen at some point.


Don

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#4162464 - 08/28/15 09:06 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: Bearcat99]  
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If there really is something in the works that will significantly improve the SP game, whilst this is unlikely given that they "don't have resources", why on earth would they keep this fact a secret?

Surely it would only help their image if they let their fans know that they're listening, that they're working on the necessary improvements.

I fear, instead, this secret work is in fact only that which they've already revealed, the handmade mission to be played at the start of each Groundhog Day chapter.

I hope I'm wrong, but if I am why on earth won't they employ someone that understands how to actually market their product?

#4162490 - 08/28/15 10:27 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: Force10]  
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Originally Posted By: Force10

The first 5 months of the BOS EA purchases for Premium and Standard edition:

8,053

The first 5 months of the BOM EA purchases for Premium and Standard edition:

1,842

So in the same time frame...78% fewer customers purchased the BOM EA then purchased the BOS EA.

Don't you see that as a problem that deserves more attention then the few here that are vocal about the game? Basically...about 3/4 of the folks that bought BOS have walked away from it without voicing anything...or at the very least said "No Thanks" to the BOM EA.



I'd say a fair amount of them learned what EA really was and that it wasn't worth the extra money for the roller coaster that we experienced on the BOS ride. So maybe they are laying back and patiently seeing how the game pans out this time....So I wouldn't put to much into those numbers.....except some people may wait for the price to come down. After all....BOS proved that on release..it wasn't really a completed product. In a way, I admire that kind of consumer discipline....And yes...some people may never be back...and find that other games are more fun after all.

I know you don't care about the SP Hooves, but I think a tremendous base of support has been lost.....because the SP was so poorly done. They will get some customers to come back...but more than likely not at a premium price...

#4162493 - 08/28/15 10:46 PM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: JagerNeun]  
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Originally Posted By: JagdNeun


I'd say a fair amount of them learned what EA really was and that it wasn't worth the extra money for the roller coaster that we experienced on the BOS ride. So maybe they are laying back and patiently seeing how the game pans out this time....So I wouldn't put to much into those numbers.....except some people may wait for the price to come down.


I disagree.

I'm not sure if you remember, but the first 8-9 months of the EA, the forums were a pretty harmonious place. I don't think there was one locked thread and the overall vibe was almost 100% positive. The Extended discussions section here wasn't created until 11 months after the EA started. It was only after the release of the campaign and stupid crap like locked down graphics presets that things turned ugly.

I think the decline is more about knowing what the developers "vision" is...and not being interested.

Such a shame really...they were off to such a great start only to fumble at the 2 yard line.


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#4162509 - 08/29/15 12:12 AM Re: BoS August Sale! [Re: Force10]  
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Originally Posted By: Force10




Hooves,

You say you don't give a darn about SP...you should. I'm guessing the 78% comes from mostly the SP crowd that came to the conclusion that this offering isn't for them and strays to far from what we've come to love about the franchise. My point being that I don't think this title can survive financially from MP purchases alone.

smile


Just so I understand. Are you telling me I should care about SP and start having fun with it? OR just care about it being better to support the genre? If the latter is the case then, of course I support SP. I still wont play it, but sure I support it being good, after all, many of the players we get into MP squadrons started off in SP.

I would agree that the MP (unless drastically switched to it as the focus) wont support the franchise either, I mean how could it if it isnt the primary focus?). But in the same breath you cant realistically say there has been no content created to enjoy on the SP side. Some really cool stuff is coming about. But if your sole source of information was this forum, you would think that not only is there ZERO SP content to be had, but also Loft is stealing your credit card numbers, Jason is laughing all the way to the back with YOUR money with no care to improve this product, and that somewhere along the line, Bearcat kicked your dog.

Point being, this site has gone from being a great place for sim discourse, to a dirty john, that plays host to only haters and the ill-informed. So much so, that MudSpike has now taken most of my and many others forum time to get updated on the latest cool happenings in the simuverse. This didn't used to be the case and its sad to see this place fall so far.

I get "Opinion" but at some point enough is enough, its to the point where Bearcat (or anyone for that matter) cant even come in and announce a SALE, or voice satisfaction with 1CGS product without being accosted on these forums.

I have no real problems with anyone here, afterall, these are images on a screen and none of you can dictate what I find enjoyable, but man, after a point, some of you really just need to let it go.

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