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#4160352 - 08/23/15 06:18 AM Re: Windows 10 updrade?... uh.. ok I guess [Re: OvStachel]  
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What I believe the general impetus for upgrading is the "FREE" tag on Windows 10. Better than paying for it down the road is what a lot tend to believe. Some casual gamers might be looking for a quick way and short cut to get an extra boost in games as well. Core gamers know better.

The reality is that there are two general types of bottlenecks which can degrade game performance - software and hardware. An example of a software bottleneck would be an unoptimized operating system, old/buggy drivers, resource hogs like an antivirus program (cough* Norton *cough), etc... Fixing these can solve that problem and make games run smoother again.

Hardware bottlenecks are more expensive to fix because they require cold cash. I won't go into the details of these types of bottlenecks, but suffice it to say that if you spend wisely, then you'll see and reap the rewards in terms of massive increase in game performance. For example, games that use mostly GPU (like witcher 3) can benefit greatly with a video card upgrade. I've personally seen an "older PC" with a 680 GTX run that game on medium graphical settings, then when he upgraded to a 980 Ti... BAM! Frame rates went through the roof on ULTRA settings. Even though he still had it running on a 5 year old processor and motherboard!

Back on topic... A shinny new OS would be a logical step for folks who play games occasionally, but it's not their priority. Surfing the internet would be as much fun to them as playing a game. So, I can see how upgrading would be justified in their mind. But there is no substitute for a hardware upgrade with core gamers who would benefit from an increased game performance.

It would be comparable to those who prefer to upgrade their car every few years to those who still have that vintage beauty sitting in their driveway and adding "extras" to it while not interested in the least to buy a new car.

#4160362 - 08/23/15 08:18 AM Re: Windows 10 updrade?... uh.. ok I guess [Re: HumanDrone]  
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Originally Posted By: HumanDrone
Well, like Cavaliere57, I've watched M$ over the years, and yes - my beef with them was killing a beautiful word processor, WordPerfect, with a far inferior product - Micro$oft <ahem> "Word", which purports to be a word processor. They didn't do it fair & square, they just undercut the thing in the market, taking a loss until they'd destroyed the competition. Now don't get me wrong, WordPerfect is still out there (lawyers use it, mostly) and it still beats the ever-loving snot out of "Word," but it just can't gain back its market share against the behemoth. And in case I haven't made myself clear, "Word" is to WordPerfect as 3-day old, sun-bloated, fly-ridden road kill is to a gourmet banquet at the Waldorf Astoria - I hate "Word" with the burning fire of a thousand suns, I have no words bad enough for it.

There is a story, too, and it may be apocryphal, that a certain company had a great program for Windows (I wish I could track this down better), and Bill Gates mentioned in an interview or something that Windows would soon have said capability. So the company's stock tanked. and the fellows who'd taken all the risk saw all their hard work, all their equity, all their future, go out the window - and M$ just walked in and bought them, at bargain basement prices. It'd be like he walked in and took your retirement savings and gave you 10 cents on the dollar. Again, it may be an urban legend, but that's basically what he did with WordPerfect, minus the buyout. All the value hard work, the value, and the jobs at that company were eviscerated as he gave away a greatly inferior, but "good enough" product.

But more to the subject, what Panama Red said in red above is correct, as well as his remark about interlinking of OS's & hardware. And some of what they have in the agreement may be innocuous enough, or for good reason. But every good thing has a bad side. We can go for a beautiful flight in my Sopwith Pup, or I can send a fellow plummeting to a horrifying firey death with it.

And yes, unless a new Bill Gates comes along very quickly, we'll all be on Windows 10 sooner or later, unless we can figure out a Linux port of WOFF somehow. Suppose I try to stay on W7 forever. Sooner or later my hardware is going to fail; if I really work at it I can swap into a new system, but it will be extremely difficult to stay with W7 forever, even following Panama Red's approach, & keeping the thing off the 'net.

The only other choice is raising a stink, call your Congressman or news station or whatever. But I think people are exhausted by all the crises constantly being thrown at them - as long as the stupid thing works, they're too tired to care. You folks in Europe seem to have more success that way, though, you fought off Google. But so far, there is very little pushback.


Good example,but they did much horrible things than that,their policy was "get it or grab it" in any way at disposal.They have always forced software houses to avoid developing their programs for alternative OSs,with any kind of threat,that's history...that way M$ gained a prominent position on the market,apart from some of the best softwares made on Apple platform and then "ported" on Windows,all of the rest has to be tailored for Win.xxx OS because of the above situation,if you software developer dare to give a Linux version or BDE or whatever,they simply hurt you and your business.Piracy against M$ it's a civil right,these days! skullhead


" In vino veritas "
#4160363 - 08/23/15 08:22 AM Re: Windows 10 updrade?... uh.. ok I guess [Re: HumanDrone]  
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Originally Posted By: HumanDrone


Yes Cortana,another chase to catch Apple stuff,and a very bad one,and even turning it off,you don't solve all the data gathering issue winkngrin

P.S.
did you see what it takes to turn it off? Every single device has to be affected,that means the average Windows user will never dare to twinkle with that,meaning thet they'll retrieve data from millions of people selling then for market inquiries,call centers,advertising and the likes! rolleyes
Money...money,,,money....$$$$$$$$$$


" In vino veritas "
#4160384 - 08/23/15 10:45 AM Re: Windows 10 updrade?... uh.. ok I guess [Re: OvStachel]  
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I am considering running W7 as now for WOFF but with no internet connection and running Ubuntu or similar linux OS on another drive which would be on the internet. The best anti-virus protection is to have no comms with the outside world.

I have tried W10 but I don't think I want it - there are too many strings attached as you all mention on this thread.


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#4160403 - 08/23/15 12:43 PM Re: Windows 10 updrade?... uh.. ok I guess [Re: JimAttrill]  
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Originally Posted By: JimAttrill
I am considering running W7 as now for WOFF but with no internet connection and running Ubuntu or similar linux OS on another drive which would be on the internet. The best anti-virus protection is to have no comms with the outside world.

I have tried W10 but I don't think I want it - there are too many strings attached as you all mention on this thread.


Jim,the Windows machine wich I use for Woff (it's Win 7) has NO antivirus on it,it's connected and does not host anything evil.....I think antiviruses are the worst cure for malware,in fact my opinion is that Antivirus software houses are supporting the "virus business" very well,just imagine why hahaha $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


" In vino veritas "
#4160420 - 08/23/15 01:41 PM Re: Windows 10 updrade?... uh.. ok I guess [Re: OvStachel]  
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I agree with both of you (Jim and Cav). For gaming, you can't beat Win7. It's the most solid OS M$ has put out since WinXP SP3. Win10 is slow to do everything... slow boot-up, slow drive access, slow internet speed.

It's just not ready and from the sounds of it, M$ is pushing hard to mimic the aspects of tablets moreso that PC's. Like many non-gamers are learning, having a tablet is far more useful than a PC sitting on a desk.

So it makes sense for M$ to appeal to by having the OS look like a tablet. For our sake, being gamers and simmers, it just doesn't work. The menus are all different, Control Panel is gone. everything is hidden under menus that are not relative to what we would expect being more than just regular users. The start menu looks like a picture gallery until you delve into it and reconfigure it a little. But it still never offers you that simple Win7 feel. It's very poorly thought out, as if someone that has never used a PC for anything other than web surfing and email designed the look of the OS.

I tried like hell to like it, to configure it as best possible, shutting off all the monitoring and making the menus look like I was used to, but nothing worked. It's just not gamer friendly.

As far as performance, I loaded all the newest Win10 drivers for video, sound and printing. I had constant conflicts every time I'd unplug my joystick and plug in a game pad. The PC would lock and took forever and a day to recover. I didn't notice any significant increase it FPS for WOFF, or any other game I play. However, I did notice that Minecraft seemed to run a lot better... noting to do with the fact that M$ now owns it.

I reverted back without any issues. My PC is as it was before with all programs working. I'm sticking with Win7.

OvS


Last edited by OvStachel; 08/23/15 01:49 PM.

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#4160443 - 08/23/15 04:06 PM Re: Windows 10 updrade?... uh.. ok I guess [Re: OvStachel]  
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Originally Posted By: OvStachel
I agree with both of you (Jim and Cav). For gaming, you can't beat Win7. It's the most solid OS M$ has put out since WinXP SP3. Win10 is slow to do everything... slow boot-up, slow drive access, slow internet speed.

It's just not ready and from the sounds of it, M$ is pushing hard to mimic the aspects of tablets moreso that PC's. Like many non-gamers are learning, having a tablet is far more useful than a PC sitting on a desk.

So it makes sense for M$ to appeal to by having the OS look like a tablet. For our sake, being gamers and simmers, it just doesn't work. The menus are all different, Control Panel is gone. everything is hidden under menus that are not relative to what we would expect being more than just regular users. The start menu looks like a picture gallery until you delve into it and reconfigure it a little. But it still never offers you that simple Win7 feel. It's very poorly thought out, as if someone that has never used a PC for anything other than web surfing and email designed the look of the OS.

I tried like hell to like it, to configure it as best possible, shutting off all the monitoring and making the menus look like I was used to, but nothing worked. It's just not gamer friendly.

As far as performance, I loaded all the newest Win10 drivers for video, sound and printing. I had constant conflicts every time I'd unplug my joystick and plug in a game pad. The PC would lock and took forever and a day to recover. I didn't notice any significant increase it FPS for WOFF, or any other game I play. However, I did notice that Minecraft seemed to run a lot better... noting to do with the fact that M$ now owns it.

I reverted back without any issues. My PC is as it was before with all programs working. I'm sticking with Win7.

OvS



OV, in simplistic terms, I see the tablet concept a platform for users and not programmers/developers/tech types. The later want to and need to get under the hood and deal with things at a file level and not have to deal with the glossy touchy/feelie graphical interface these systems provide! Of course I am getting older and less willing to adapt to an interface that requires a long learning curve at the expense of productivity and time resources.

Last edited by Robert_Wiggins; 08/23/15 04:08 PM.

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#4160482 - 08/23/15 08:29 PM Re: Windows 10 updrade?... uh.. ok I guess [Re: Robert_Wiggins]  
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Originally Posted By: Robert_Wiggins
Originally Posted By: OvStachel
I agree with both of you (Jim and Cav). For gaming, you can't beat Win7. It's the most solid OS M$ has put out since WinXP SP3. Win10 is slow to do everything... slow boot-up, slow drive access, slow internet speed.

It's just not ready and from the sounds of it, M$ is pushing hard to mimic the aspects of tablets moreso that PC's. Like many non-gamers are learning, having a tablet is far more useful than a PC sitting on a desk.

So it makes sense for M$ to appeal to by having the OS look like a tablet. For our sake, being gamers and simmers, it just doesn't work. The menus are all different, Control Panel is gone. everything is hidden under menus that are not relative to what we would expect being more than just regular users. The start menu looks like a picture gallery until you delve into it and reconfigure it a little. But it still never offers you that simple Win7 feel. It's very poorly thought out, as if someone that has never used a PC for anything other than web surfing and email designed the look of the OS.

I tried like hell to like it, to configure it as best possible, shutting off all the monitoring and making the menus look like I was used to, but nothing worked. It's just not gamer friendly.

As far as performance, I loaded all the newest Win10 drivers for video, sound and printing. I had constant conflicts every time I'd unplug my joystick and plug in a game pad. The PC would lock and took forever and a day to recover. I didn't notice any significant increase it FPS for WOFF, or any other game I play. However, I did notice that Minecraft seemed to run a lot better... noting to do with the fact that M$ now owns it.

I reverted back without any issues. My PC is as it was before with all programs working. I'm sticking with Win7.

OvS



OV, in simplistic terms, I see the tablet concept a platform for users and not programmers/developers/tech types. The later want to and need to get under the hood and deal with things at a file level and not have to deal with the glossy touchy/feelie graphical interface these systems provide! Of course I am getting older and less willing to adapt to an interface that requires a long learning curve at the expense of productivity and time resources.


Robert,the problem is simple...market and numbers! Desktop PCs of any kind,are subsiding to Tablets and Smartphones,and the companies veer to that shore...it's only money....nothing we can do about it.
In future you will se more and more of this.


" In vino veritas "
#4160486 - 08/23/15 08:56 PM Re: Windows 10 updrade?... uh.. ok I guess [Re: OvStachel]  
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IMHO, the IDF 2015 is revealing a planned monopoly from the intel and M$ partnership - the beginning steps of machines taking over the world:

1. "Voice activation is one way Windows 10 and Skylake will work together to create a more personalized and sensitized computing experience, said Kaushik."

2. "Another new feature of Windows 10 is Windows Hello, which integrates biometric authentication in devices with skylake to enable facial or fingerprint login capabilities."

3. "Intel reportedly is looking to push its own Skylake processors into the Compute Stick (i.e. a PC on a stick)."

4. "Skylake contains wireless features enabling a platform on portable, mobile devices, such as WiGig, Intel's Wireless Gigabit".

5. "Skylake contains a built-in Intel Iris Pro Graphics technology, featuring 4K resolution, which works hand-in-hand with Windows 10 to support DirectX12's capabilities and are capable of driving up to three 4K monitors at 60Hz.."

6. "USB Type-C and Thunderbolt 3 technology, a next-generation solution for fast-charging, display and peripheral connectivity on a single cable and connector."

7. "Skylake's Speed Shift technology plays into Windows 10's new Disconnected Standby."

8. (This is the anti-pirate software part) - "Skylake contains Kernel Mode Code Integrity (KMCI) enforcement features, checking each kernel-mode driver for a digital signature. On the server side, Skylake contains Virtual Trusted Platform Module (TPM). These features bolster Windows 10, which already contains Device Guard"

These quotes were taken from internet sources that are attending the Intel Developer Forum in San Francisco.

#4160502 - 08/23/15 09:55 PM Re: Windows 10 updrade?... uh.. ok I guess [Re: OvStachel]  
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Thanks OldHat!


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#4160548 - 08/24/15 12:48 AM Re: Windows 10 updrade?... uh.. ok I guess [Re: OvStachel]  
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Skynet is self-aware....


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#4160563 - 08/24/15 02:06 AM Re: Windows 10 updrade?... uh.. ok I guess [Re: OvStachel]  
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Good Lord, it is pretty much as I'd feared. Thanks, all of you, CAv57, OvS, Oldhat, Robre_Wiggions, everyone!

I may have to have a separate computer for work connection now. Sheesh. Of course, even though our office geek is an M$ fanboy, he's usually pretty slow to upgrade the OS. I hope we stay with W7 for along while. Either that, or it's time to add another SSD and make this beauty a dual-boot.


Box: Win7 Pro 64 bit / I72600K @4.1 GHz / EVGA GTX1080Ti/ 16GB RAM / Corsair 240 GB SSD / WD 600 GB Velociraptor / 1050W Power
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#4160750 - 08/24/15 05:40 PM Re: Windows 10 updrade?... uh.. ok I guess [Re: OldHat]  
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Originally Posted By: OldHat
IMHO, the IDF 2015 is revealing a planned monopoly from the intel and M$ partnership - the beginning steps of machines taking over the world:

1. "Voice activation is one way Windows 10 and Skylake will work together to create a more personalized and sensitized computing experience, said Kaushik."

2. "Another new feature of Windows 10 is Windows Hello, which integrates biometric authentication in devices with skylake to enable facial or fingerprint login capabilities."

3. "Intel reportedly is looking to push its own Skylake processors into the Compute Stick (i.e. a PC on a stick)."

4. "Skylake contains wireless features enabling a platform on portable, mobile devices, such as WiGig, Intel's Wireless Gigabit".

5. "Skylake contains a built-in Intel Iris Pro Graphics technology, featuring 4K resolution, which works hand-in-hand with Windows 10 to support DirectX12's capabilities and are capable of driving up to three 4K monitors at 60Hz.."

6. "USB Type-C and Thunderbolt 3 technology, a next-generation solution for fast-charging, display and peripheral connectivity on a single cable and connector."

7. "Skylake's Speed Shift technology plays into Windows 10's new Disconnected Standby."

8. (This is the anti-pirate software part) - "Skylake contains Kernel Mode Code Integrity (KMCI) enforcement features, checking each kernel-mode driver for a digital signature. On the server side, Skylake contains Virtual Trusted Platform Module (TPM). These features bolster Windows 10, which already contains Device Guard"

These quotes were taken from internet sources that are attending the Intel Developer Forum in San Francisco.


Also,related to point 8 ,M$ and Intel plan to slave each machine's harware to only one OS,guess which one.... rolleyes They'll get rid of multiple OS booting from the same machine,very soon.
Big Brother is coming.....stay tuned!
Edit: I forgot,with the Automatic Updates,10 will force you to make "Edge" as default Web browser,if you choose another one (Mozilla,Chrome,Opera etc..) you will have to go through a long and tiring procedure to set it up,Mozilla's CEO has already pointed this out in an open letter to the M$ CEO and all the media,the same old story....

Last edited by Cavaliere57; 08/24/15 06:35 PM.

" In vino veritas "
#4161030 - 08/25/15 03:54 PM Re: Windows 10 updrade?... uh.. ok I guess [Re: OvStachel]  
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We could tell you what was in that update but then we would have to terminate your process !!!

The more we learn about Windows as a Service the less we seem to know. Already many have discovered that a fresh install with license from an upgraded Windows install is not as simple as it sounded, the license has far more to do with your current hardware than the OS license you once purchased. Now it seems that figuring out what updates are being installed on your computer will also be obfuscated, where before you could see the number of the relevant Knowledge Base article now you will simply receive generically labelled updates. This should worry home users as it will make it difficult to avoid Windows Updates with known compatibility issues and terrify any businesses which were considering moving to Windows 10 as releasing untested patches into a production environment is verboten and this makes the testing process more, not less difficult.

Windows Insiders may actually end up knowing more about the updates than the regular users who will only hear details of a limited number of updates. Build 10525 has recently been released to insiders on the Fast Release ring with Microsoft's Gabe Aul went into detail about what changes were made in this new build, as well as the new issues present in this version. Build 10512 of Windows 10 Mobile was also just recently released for those few souls running on Windows Mobile and testing the newest incarnation of the OS. The Register did try out the new version, you can read about their experiences here.

"The Register asked Microsoft for clarification on the policy after the company issued a new cumulative update for Windows 10 and refused to say what it does other than to say it offered “improvements to enhance the functionality of Windows 10.”"


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#4161052 - 08/25/15 04:23 PM Re: Windows 10 updrade?... uh.. ok I guess [Re: OvStachel]  
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It's too bad MS is essentially indespensiable at this point.
Like to give them the dropkick just to make myself feel better.

#4161056 - 08/25/15 04:29 PM Re: Windows 10 updrade?... uh.. ok I guess [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Originally Posted By: DukeIronHand
It's too bad MS is essentially indespensiable at this point.
Like to give them the dropkick just to make myself feel better.


No,not really indispenseable at all,imho hahaha


" In vino veritas "
#4161237 - 08/26/15 02:26 AM Re: Windows 10 updrade?... uh.. ok I guess [Re: OvStachel]  
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Well, we can stay with whichever pre-Win10 flavor we like, but for us Barmy WOFF'ers, it'll have to be some flavor of Windows for the immediate future.

I think the thing that gets you about all this stuff is that you really have no idea about what's going over that wire that disappears into the wall. We are far past the point where the average user can monitor their network connection. You can't help but feel a certain helplessness. And as I noted earlier, M$ isn't the only one- data scraping & mining is a huge money generator, probably the financial lifeblood of the internet. The same crap happens on my Android phone, targeted ads, etc. We've been slowly steeped in this stuff, and it's not even all bad until you look at the whole picture.

But this new M$ Win10 EULA really seems over the top to me; I remain surprised that here isn't more consumer backlash at this point.


Box: Win7 Pro 64 bit / I72600K @4.1 GHz / EVGA GTX1080Ti/ 16GB RAM / Corsair 240 GB SSD / WD 600 GB Velociraptor / 1050W Power
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#4161694 - 08/27/15 12:49 PM Re: Windows 10 updrade?... uh.. ok I guess [Re: OvStachel]  
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MS's free upgrade forces me to remind everyone of the old proverb: "Beware of geeks bearing gifts." biggrin

#4161700 - 08/27/15 01:03 PM Re: Windows 10 updrade?... uh.. ok I guess [Re: Raine]  
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Originally Posted By: Raine
MS's free upgrade forces me to remind everyone of the old proverb: "Beware of geeks bearing gifts." biggrin


Raine, that is so amusing and apropos! yep


(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
PSU: Ultra X3,1000-Watt
MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme
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CPU: Intel i7-4770K, OC to 4.427Ghz
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler
Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB
OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD
Monitor: Primary ASUS PG27AQ 4k; Secondary Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L
Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4

#4161726 - 08/27/15 01:46 PM Re: Windows 10 updrade?... uh.. ok I guess [Re: OvStachel]  
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RAF_Louvert Offline
BOC President; Pilot Extraordinaire; Humble Man
RAF_Louvert  Offline
BOC President; Pilot Extraordinaire; Humble Man
Senior Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,879
L'Etoile du Nord
.

So true Raine, so very true. biggrin

.


[Linked Image]

Three RFC Brass Hats were strolling down a street in London. Two walked into a bar, the third one ducked.
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Former Cold War Warrior, USAF Security Service 1974-1978, E-4, Morse Systems Intercept, England, Europe, and points above.
"pippy-pahpah-pippy pah-pip-pah"

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