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#4518731 - 04/29/20 07:56 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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The Shogun 2 thread in the Hall made me think of this thread from three years back. Having added the Warhammer games to my TW quiver I reckon it's time for a re-jig of my rankings.

I own eight of the main TW titles, and rank them this way....

1) Warhammer 2. This title gets little love around here, but for me it's easily the best TW game of them all. The replayability in this one is far greater than all of the others for me. The distinctive quality of each faction stands above the rest. Add to this unique mechanics, units, tech trees and everything else for each one and it's my favorite TW game. It throws off the historical constraints of other titles and CA went wild and crafted one of the best games of all time for me, not just Total War titles.

2) Atilla . It was a breath of fresh air playing this game. I had skipped Rome 2 so Atilla hit me out of the blue. The campaign is excellent, and it dabbled in the 'factionality' that CA really ramped up in Warhammer. There are number of interesting factions with unique mechanics, and horde gameplay was one of the best. Along with Med 2 I'd rate Atilla s the most strategic campaign in TW (of those I have played)

3) Napoleon. I think I like this one better than most. The reworked replenishment mechanics were wonderful, and gunpowder for me is a sweetspot for Total War. It feels more tactical than most TW titles even if, for me, it suffered somewhat from the sameness of each faction.

4) Medieval 2. This is my most-played TW game, though WH2 is catching up. There is so much to like from this game, and some of it has never been better in the series. The trait system, the recruitment and deployment mechanics, and the civic/miltary nature of town building made it the most strategic game for me. I really miss the trait system. It's a lot of fun to build your characters in the current titles, but in Med 2 it was mostly out of your control and I loved the whole notion of your characters rising to rule with chivalry and grace while others fell in to depraved, leacherous madness. It also suffers from some poor siege battles and of course the #%&*$# Pope.

5) Shogun 2. This has dropped one spot in my list, mainly due to it's weaknesses, which were really bad. The sea trade, realm divide and agent spam were all huge missteps in my view and really served to bring down a great game. Some of this is fixed with the Fall of the Samurai expansion, which is a must-have in my view. I loved the art style and the asymmetry of an era bridging blades and gunpowder.

6) Warhammer. Not nearly as good as Warhammer 2 for me, but has many of the same pluses. WH2 though is more fleshed out, and if you own both games you can play all of the 'Old World' factions in WH2, and that pushes this game down my list.

7) Empire. I wanted to like Empire, and I suppose I do. I had fun with it. The hyped naval battles though were terrible, and I think the map is too ambitious. But the campaign was fun, and gunpowder is a strength in my opinion. A good game, but compared to the others it suffers.

8) Rome 1. This was my first TW title, and I got swept away. Played endless hours, until Med 2. In my view it has not held up well. But I recall it fondly, and the strat map music is still some of my favorite in any strategy game. Beautiful. I'd think that as my first game of the sort, Rome 1 would be father up the list. But if I ignore nostalgia I think last place is the right spot.


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#4518780 - 04/30/20 01:27 AM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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What did you like about the Horde system in Attila so much?

I generally really like Attila, but I didn't like the Horde system in the base game. As the player it takes forever to build up a horde, so the first 50 turns are just about avoiding battle and strategically place your hordes at borders so they support eachother in a defensive battle, without taking proximity penalties. And as the Huns being the enemy, it was just annoying to deplete their stacks without killing them. It didn't help that AI Huns get OP units from the get go from which the Player Huns can only dream of.

It felt a lot better in The Last Roman and the other Horde factions were pretty fun to battle against, but the fact that the entire early game is wasted as a Horde faction was a pretty big negative for me.

But then again, I really did like Realm Divide as it did a fantastic job in keeping the traditional late-game steamrolling away.

PS: Just found out I missed the WH2 free weekend, darn it...

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#4518790 - 04/30/20 04:13 AM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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I played a campaign as Ostrogoths and really enjoyed it. It's the only time I've played a horde in TW that I liked. The hordes in WH2 are not fun. Maybe Ostrogoths aren't a horde and I am misusing the term, I guess nomadic Romans is more accurate lol.. But they play like one, at least at first. The early game was awesome as I moved across the map in search of a homeland while being chased by Huns and Stilicho. We had a long thread about it and I will quote one of my posts

So last night I wanted to try a new run. I spent some time in AoC considering the various factions. Almost did the Danes but they have no cavalry and I kinda need cav lol. Feeling uninspired I went back to the GC. I hadn't wanted to play as a horde, but thought what the hell, and started a new run as the Ostrogoths. The rightful heirs to Rome, but without a home at the mo. I worked out a plan to sack my way through the WRE to Spain or maybe as far as Carthage. We'd figure that out along the way.

And what fun it is. Having never played a horde, and having no clue what to do we set off to the west. I hired two spies to act as scouts to hopefully avoid getting trapped. The WRE was hunting me and so were the Huns. I saw that relations with the Huns were hostile and stagnant, since they don't start at war with the WRE. So I needed a way to get them ticking upwards. They are at war with the ERE though. So I got the Visigoths to pay me to join the war against the ERE. I was heading off in the opposite direction, so little danger to me.

A full stack led by Stilicho was spotted in western Pannonia so I detoured north, making friends and allies along the way. As I moved west I was continually in allied lands which helps. Moving through the Alans, Burgundia declared war. At this same time I noticed that my second stack had integrity issues. It was dropping fast and there would be a mutiny in two turns. I needed victories and quickly. At one point I was forced to use the decimate option which worked great, like +30 integrity which saved the day. These are the hard decisions a King has to make. Heavy is the head that wears the big hat.

I sacked my way along the Baltic coast and turned south near Holstein. My goal was to have 50k in the bank in order to settle. We kept moving south, sacking through Gaul and skirmishing with WRE and rebel armies, while trying to evade their larger stacks. Was able to finally get a peace with the Huns who stopped chasing me. As we moved through Bohemia, I was shocked to see two Picts stacks in my wake. What are they doing here? They took advantage of my sacking and occupied one or two of my targets. Picts holding land in central Gaul 30 or 40 turns in! Madness.

We continued south and crossed the Pyrenees into Iberia. Iberia was a complete sh!t show. Rebels, WRE, Hispania all waging war on each other. And guess who? The Caledonians had a full stack there! What the hell? Seeing what the Picts and Caledonians were doing vindicated my decision in my WRE run to hold Brittania. If this had happened in that game I would have been screwed.

I sacked counter-clockwise though Iberia with the intention of settling in the southeast corner, Carthegenisis or somesuch. A little expansion from there would net me olives, wine, marble, iron and gold, plus one of the most defensible locations on the map, at least by land. Of course Iberia is ridiculously vulnerable to seaborne invasion so I'll need a navy or two.

Falling short of my goal with 35k I declared on Hispania and took my first city, and then the one with wine to the west. And with that, the Ostrogoths have a homeland. Now, to plot the conquest of Rome!


I mean come on, right? smile

It's such a dynamic opening to a campaign, with every option really. I liked the blank canvas aspect. To wheel across half of Europe, sacking and evading, and ending up planting my flag in Iberia before reclaiming the Roman Empire was the sort of emergent gameplay TW is not known for, when you consider it's a blob-fest most of the time. By the way, you mentioned WH2 Vaderini and not sure if it interests you, but the stock WH2 campaign is an effort by CA to change up the blobbing to victory gameplay. It's an interesting twist and if you ever do get the game I'd like to know what you think.


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#4518802 - 04/30/20 10:31 AM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: Vaderini]  
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Originally Posted by Vaderini


I generally really like Attila, but I didn't like the Horde system in the base game. As the player it takes forever to build up a horde, so the first 50 turns are just about avoiding battle and strategically place your hordes at borders so they support eachother in a defensive battle, without taking proximity penalties. And as the Huns being the enemy, it was just annoying to deplete their stacks without killing them. It didn't help that AI Huns get OP units from the get go from which the Player Huns can only dream of.

..



I have almost 4,000 hours in Attila so I guess you can say I like it but I completely agree with your observations on the Huns. For all intents and purposes, the Huns are meant to be only played by the AI because when a human player plays as the Huns, they get a vastly nerfed version where it takes FOREVER to build up enough money to max out your 3 starting hordes to 20 units and it takes a very long time to get the research done to unlock the elite units since the different Hun buildings you can construct give very little research rate bonuses. While there are a lot of factions to pick and choose from, for me the "heart" of the game is playing as either the Western or Eastern Roman Empires.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4518803 - 04/30/20 10:38 AM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
I Maybe Ostrogoths aren't a horde and I am misusing the term, I guess nomadic Romans is more accurate lol..




For game purposes they are indeed a horde since the armies are self-contained economic and military entities (ie mobile settlements) but you can decide to take over a city and become settled at any time. The only three factions in the game where you are permanently a horde (you can never take a city) are the Huns, White Huns and the Tanukhids.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4518820 - 04/30/20 12:27 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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Yeah, I did not play the Huns, but I thought Ostrogoths were awesome. The cool opening, a great roster and vengeance in their hearts. As I said in the quoted bit I didn't have any idea how to go about it, but it all fell together and I learned as I went and it was full of drama as I sacked, evaded and skirmished my way through the continent. A completely different opening to most TW runs.


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#4518825 - 04/30/20 12:46 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
The cool opening, a great roster and vengeance in their hearts. .



The opening cinematic for the Huns is quite interesting as well. Still, to this day the best cinematic opening for any Total War title in my opinion is the one for the "Imperator Augustus" campaign in Rome 2. I still get chills from the rousing music and dialogue you hear between Octavian and his mother.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4519146 - 05/02/20 04:43 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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I might have to check Rome 2 out before it's all said and done. It's on sale at the mo, or was yesterday anyway. CA does a nice job with those sorts of touches PM, don't they?

Originally Posted by Vaderini
What did you like about the Horde system in Attila so much?




Originally Posted by DBond
I played a campaign as Ostrogoths .....

It's such a dynamic opening to a campaign, with every option really. I liked the blank canvas aspect. To wheel across half of Europe, sacking and evading, and ending up planting my flag in Iberia before reclaiming the Roman Empire was the sort of emergent gameplay TW is not known for


Thoughts? What happened to this discussion smile


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#4519363 - 05/04/20 06:33 AM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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Rome 2 is on sale now, 10 hours left smile

I've only played at the Ostrogoths twice. I completely agree that it is an awesome faction (and one of my favorites in Attila) but it didn't nullify my problems with the horde system. It was great fun unifying the Western and Eastern Roman Empire under the Ostrogoth banner though.

As for Rome 2, The music is absolutely fantastic throughout and reminds me of the epic movies of the 1950s and 60s, but there is zilch atmosphere whilst playing the game itself; It feels very sterile. It's your 15 bucks so what that money is worth to you is up to you, but if I had to do it all over again I wouldn't had spent my money on R2 (Even though just playing through the Roman, Suebi and Egypt campaigns will give you 100+ hours of fun, more than other games at that price point)

Last edited by Vaderini; 05/04/20 06:46 AM.
#4519483 - 05/04/20 06:37 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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That's telling in some ways that you wouldn't buy it again, even given the time you got out of it, presumably.

Atilla remains my most recent TW title outside Warhammer. The three historical titles since then haven't grabbed me enough to purchase. I imagine I'd have fun with them, but if I'm looking for a TW fix the past couple of years I just play WH2. There is so much DLC for that, and the whole Mortal Empires epic campaign, that it provides nearly endless replayability for me, as I said. What I've blown on WH DLC I've saved on the other titles so probably breaking even haha.

The Mortal Empires campaign is a free download from CA. You have to own both games, although I don't think WH 1 needs to be installed, just owned. The campaign stitches together the maps of both games and all the factions too. It is easily the most grand of all TW grand campaigns. Add the Vortex campaign too, plus new DLC every couple of months and there's always something different to play.


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#4519680 - 05/05/20 05:26 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond


Atilla remains my most recent TW title outside Warhammer.



For a while now I've been alternating between Atilla, Rome 2 and Three Kingdoms. I recently uninstalled Brittania since I have already finished the campaign as all of the factions and I recently finished another cooperative campaign with a friend of mine. I think I'm pretty much done with it after putting in close to 900 hours according to Steam.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4519804 - 05/06/20 12:50 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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Yes, that's a lot of hours for a 'minor' title. I'm just at 1000 with WH2, got there last night, and that's the one I rave about the replayability! Haha, you can sure put down the hours Panzer. But I think it also speaks to the quality of the game that you like it enough, or find the gameplay compelling enough, to drop such time. I've got more time in to Med 2, since I played it for a decade, off and on. But none of the others come close, more like the 300-hour range for Atilla and less for Nappy, Empire and Shogun 2. Rome 1 I don't know, but it was quite a lot too.


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#4519814 - 05/06/20 01:14 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
Haha, you can sure put down the hours Panzer. But I think it also speaks to the quality of the game that you like it enough, or find the gameplay compelling enough, to drop such time. .



Creative Assembly's game design just simply checks all of my boxes for some reason!

At the other end of the spectrum, I really, really tried to get into the Paradox games like Imperator: Rome and Hearts of Iron 4 but I just found the games to be so dull that I uninstalled them after putting in a few hours.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4527868 - 06/29/20 11:31 AM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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I've revisited Attila and I'm playing the Western Roman Empire campaign on "normal" difficulty this time instead of "easy". It's been a ball breaker so far BUT I'm hanging in there and I've had a few events and battles go my way so I'm pretty confident the WRE will survive to 450 AD!


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4527888 - 06/29/20 12:49 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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That was one of my favorite runs in an TW game. I think it was perhaps the most strategic one. And very difficult. I also played that one on normal. I always play Hard/Hard, but since this campaign is the only one labeled as legendary or somesuch I dialed it down, and good thing too. You were part of the thread so don't need reminding. Here's what I carved out by 425.

[Linked Image]


I found that holding out in the British Isles was key, as it bottled up those nations like the Picts and Caledonians and kept them from striking in to the mainland. That stretches you thin, but subsequent runs as different nations showed that it was a good move, as once WRE leaves Britain, those nations come for Gaul hard.


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#4527890 - 06/29/20 01:01 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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I've found that another big factor in how well your campaign goes as WRE is how well the AI manages the ERE. I've noticed that on some campaign runs the AI kicks butt with the ERE but on other runs the AI is incompetent.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4527900 - 06/29/20 02:47 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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The ERE was a complete sh!t-show in my run. If it were not for my assistance, they would have been wiped off the map. Their idea of conducting war seemed to be shuffling stacks from one province to another and then back again, while the enemy took their provinces. And to top it off, they eventually made peace with the Huns, which I found reprehensible!

They were completely useless as an ally. No, worse than useless, as they caused me trouble keeping them alive, reclaiming their lost territory. I needed their trade so what could I do?

And to top it off again, when I took one of their former provinces, I think it was Crete, I found the ERE Roman buildings are not WRE Roman buildings. Oh FFS.


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#4527903 - 06/29/20 02:57 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
The ERE was a complete sh!t-show in my run. If it were not for my assistance, they would have been wiped off the map. Their idea of conducting war seemed to be shuffling stacks from one province to another and then back again, while the enemy took their provinces. And to top it off, they eventually made peace with the Huns, which I found reprehensible!

They were completely useless as an ally. No, worse than useless, as they caused me trouble keeping them alive, reclaiming their lost territory. I needed their trade so what could I do?

And to top it off again, when I took one of their former provinces, I think it was Crete, I found the ERE Roman buildings are not WRE Roman buildings. Oh FFS.


My strategy has been to leech as much money as I can from the ERE. I've discovered that roughly about every 7-8 turns you can demand 1,000 talents from the ERE and they will usually give it to you. It makes a big difference early in the game where you have to wisely use every talent you have! I also asked to join their war against the Tanukhids and asked for 3,000 and the ERE gave it to me! I have nothing to worry about from a far flung nomadic faction so it was a great deal for me.

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 06/29/20 02:59 PM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4527914 - 06/29/20 03:43 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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Yeah, in my run that's all they were good for, plus 20k in trade income. Otherwise they were a hindrance.


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#4528890 - 07/06/20 12:45 PM Re: What's your favorite Total War Title? [Re: DBond]  
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I'm now at around turn 95 in my WRE campaign. The AI has been really odd in how it has used the Huns. The Huns have essentially milled about with their armies and occasionally raiding my territory without declaring war on me so that gave me the necessary time to build up 6 full-stack armies in the east. I noticed most of the Hun armies were weakened from winter attrition so I decided to strike and wiped out all but one of his armies. Attila now has a new set of armies of course but I'm ready for him. All of my cities along the border in Pannonia and Dalmatia are built up with garrisons and level 3 cities plus my 6 armies and I'm currently recruiting a seventh army.


I voluntarily gave up Britain but the barbarian factions in the NW have amazingly left me alone for the most part. Once I get rid of the Huns permanently I will be invading Britain.

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 07/06/20 12:47 PM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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