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#4143919 - 07/07/15 07:38 PM Suggestion for HOTAS and rudder pedals  
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malibu43 Offline
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We are moving at the end of the month, and there's a good chance our new house will have desk space to leave a HOTAS and rudder pedals set up (or at least easily accessible). This would be a nice improvement over my current "set up" of putting my laptop on the coffee table, hooking up trackIR and my Saitek AV8R, simming for 30 minutes, and then putting the whole thing away again.

Any suggestions for an affordable HOTAS and rudder pedal combination? I was thinking of may be a Saitek x-52 and whatever pedals I can find for a good price.

I'll mostly use it for GA and warbirds in P3D and an assortment of DCS stuff.

Thanks!


Sager NP8671 17.3" Notebook, i74720HQ (3.6GHz), GTX 970M (3.0GB), 8GB DDR3 RAM, 1TB 7200RPM HD, TrackIR 4, CH HOTAS and rudder pedals
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#4143934 - 07/07/15 08:24 PM Re: Suggestion for HOTAS and rudder pedals [Re: malibu43]  
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- Ice Offline
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The TM WH if you fly the A-10C at all! As for rudders, I've been using the Saitek ProFlight rudders for the past 5 years and it's still going strong.... however, it is only really "used" when playing Elite. BMS didn't really need much footwork. biggrin


- Ice
#4143943 - 07/07/15 08:43 PM Re: Suggestion for HOTAS and rudder pedals [Re: malibu43]  
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HomeFries Offline
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Since the sims you use are configurable from the go, I'm guessing that full programmability is not a high priority. However (and this can be especially true with DCS), with multiple aircraft and multiple desired configurations you may want to consider CH or Thrustmaster for your programming options. Take a look at my DCS Profile for the TM Cougar to get some ideas of what you can do.

If you go with the X52, make sure you get the X52 Pro. In addition to being a bit tighter, the pro fixes some of the reliability issues that crept into the line when Saitek was bought by Mad Catz. You could also get the X52 Pro now and use the twist rudder, then buy the Saitek Pro pedals (or pro combat pedals) later if money is an issue. The downside to the Saitek is the programmability: the software is straightforward, but is not all that powerful and Saitek has some issues with updating their software/drivers for operating system compatibility. When I ran a Saitek P8000 I would use 3rd party drivers instead of the Saitek ones.

If money is less of an issue, I would recommend the CH Products line. You can buy them separately, they are fully programmable, and they are bulletproof. The programming is a language that allows math functions, though I don't have personal experience with it.

Finally, with DCS the obvious option is the TM Warthog. That's the priciest of the bunch and doesn't include rudder pedals or a twist rudder, but you can always mix and match the Saitek pro line to go with the Warthog. The programming of the stick is done in C (albeit slightly nerfed), so you can do some amazing things including arrays, multiple conditions, etc. The downside is that the non-scripting profile interface is garbage; TARGET was designed to best be used with a blank canvas, and the "plug and play" profile seems like a crudely bolted on interface. That said, with your modding experience I know you're no stranger to programming, so this wouldn't be an issue for you at all.


-Home Fries

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty."
- Robert A. Heinlein

The average naval aviator, despite the sometimes swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy, and caring. These feelings just don't involve anyone else.

#4144237 - 07/08/15 04:53 PM Re: Suggestion for HOTAS and rudder pedals [Re: malibu43]  
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malibu43 Offline
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Thanks Ice and HF.

I think if I move forward with this I'll probably try to go with CH. Maybe rudder pedals first (so I can fly the Huey in DCS), and then followed by the HOTAS.

I realized last night that I had never run my plan for some dedicated HOTAS/Rudder Pedal space by my wife, so I went ahead and introduced the idea to her to give her some time to warm up to it. She raised her eyebrows, but didn't say "no"... biggrin


Sager NP8671 17.3" Notebook, i74720HQ (3.6GHz), GTX 970M (3.0GB), 8GB DDR3 RAM, 1TB 7200RPM HD, TrackIR 4, CH HOTAS and rudder pedals
#4144259 - 07/08/15 05:52 PM Re: Suggestion for HOTAS and rudder pedals [Re: malibu43]  
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malibu43 Offline
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Another question - I assume that there are plenty of CH profiles for popular DCS modules out there to download, correct?

While I'm capable of coming up with my own, it's something I'd rather not spend time on.


Sager NP8671 17.3" Notebook, i74720HQ (3.6GHz), GTX 970M (3.0GB), 8GB DDR3 RAM, 1TB 7200RPM HD, TrackIR 4, CH HOTAS and rudder pedals
#4144432 - 07/09/15 04:32 AM Re: Suggestion for HOTAS and rudder pedals [Re: malibu43]  
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HomeFries Offline
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I don't know of any involved CH profiles, though I haven't looked for them either. As far as I know, my own TARGET Cougar profile is the only one that covers all DCS modules, and I use the Thrustmaster MFDs to cycle between modules. I'm sure that you could pretty much use DirectX commands for just about everything, which makes things much easier in DCS. The real outlier is the MiG-21, which has a discrete key for every switch position (including the weapon select rotary), so you might have to create arrays and cycle them if you want to map MiG-21 functions to the HOTAS.

Of course, if you're used to a single 12 button stick with a single hat switch and a laptop keyboard, what I just mentioned won't seem all that bad anyway. You can pretty much do everything you need to do with DirectX; the programming is just a matter of things you want to do.

EDIT: If you do want a profile that already works with DCS, note that my profile currently only works with the Cougar and not the Warthog. I'm working on acquiring a Warthog, at which point I will begin work on a profile that is compatible with both HOTAS systems.

Last edited by HomeFries; 07/09/15 04:40 AM.

-Home Fries

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty."
- Robert A. Heinlein

The average naval aviator, despite the sometimes swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy, and caring. These feelings just don't involve anyone else.

#4144868 - 07/10/15 08:59 AM Re: Suggestion for HOTAS and rudder pedals [Re: malibu43]  
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markl Offline
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For CH profiles visit "http://www.ch-hangar.com/" register and download profiles, also good forum support for CH gear.

Regards


MarkL
#4145581 - 07/12/15 03:32 AM Re: Suggestion for HOTAS and rudder pedals [Re: malibu43]  
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malibu43 Offline
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I've read the Saitek pedals are better than the CH pedals, so I could go Saitek Pro pedals with a CH HOTAS, right?

Also, do any of those products have a USB port on them? Does each one need it's own dedicated USB port (or do the throttle and stick somehow connect to each other and then go into one port)? My laptop only has 3 USB ports, so if they each use their own port, I'll have to get a USB Hub or something so I can plug Track IR in also.

Do these products all work if I use a USB Hub?


Sager NP8671 17.3" Notebook, i74720HQ (3.6GHz), GTX 970M (3.0GB), 8GB DDR3 RAM, 1TB 7200RPM HD, TrackIR 4, CH HOTAS and rudder pedals
#4145597 - 07/12/15 06:32 AM Re: Suggestion for HOTAS and rudder pedals [Re: malibu43]  
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CyBerkut Offline
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Originally Posted By: malibu43
I've read the Saitek pedals are better than the CH pedals, so I could go Saitek Pro pedals with a CH HOTAS, right?

Also, do any of those products have a USB port on them? Does each one need it's own dedicated USB port (or do the throttle and stick somehow connect to each other and then go into one port)? My laptop only has 3 USB ports, so if they each use their own port, I'll have to get a USB Hub or something so I can plug Track IR in also.

Do these products all work if I use a USB Hub?


1. Get an externally powered USB hub. You might as well get a 7 port, instead of a 4 port, while you're at it. Yes, each of those three devices is a separate USB device. They will use up 3 USB ports.

2. As long as your sims/games does not limit the number of USB devices it can "see", then using Saitek Rudder Pedals with a CH HOTAS should work fine. There are some considerations to take into account. CH Products use "Control Manager" (IIRC) as a profile manager program. It is one of the best, if not the very best, profile programs out there. Many people say it is, and I would not dispute it. Control Manager can combine all of the CH Products controllers into a single 'virtual' controller... which can be handy for older sims/games, or even for some recent ones (ie. Star Citizen, which is still under development, can only recognize the first 4 controllers). Using Saitek Pedals will not allow them to be combined into that virtual controller. Also, there are other tradeoffs between the pedals from both manufacturers. The CH pedals are well made and will last a long time... with the usual knock upon them being that the pedals are spaced more closely together. The Saitek pedals have wider spacing, but will probably not hold up as long.


#4145659 - 07/12/15 12:51 PM Re: Suggestion for HOTAS and rudder pedals [Re: malibu43]  
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There is a very aggressive mod which widens CH Pedals.


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4155846 - 08/10/15 03:41 PM Re: Suggestion for HOTAS and rudder pedals [Re: CyBerkut]  
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malibu43 Offline
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Originally Posted By: CyBerkut


...

1. Get an externally powered USB hub. You might as well get a 7 port, instead of a 4 port, while you're at it. Yes, each of those three devices is a separate USB device. They will use up 3 USB ports.

...



Thanks everyone for the input! I have an inkling that I'm going to be getting a full suite of CH Products this Friday for my birthday. And by "inkling", I mean like 100% sure. I already pretty much knew and and then my 4 year old son gave it away yesterday. biggrin

One follow up question - what difference does it make if the USB Hub is powered or not? I'll get one either way, but I was just curious...


Sager NP8671 17.3" Notebook, i74720HQ (3.6GHz), GTX 970M (3.0GB), 8GB DDR3 RAM, 1TB 7200RPM HD, TrackIR 4, CH HOTAS and rudder pedals
#4155870 - 08/10/15 04:21 PM Re: Suggestion for HOTAS and rudder pedals [Re: malibu43]  
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CyBerkut Offline
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Originally Posted By: malibu43
Originally Posted By: CyBerkut


...

1. Get an externally powered USB hub. You might as well get a 7 port, instead of a 4 port, while you're at it. Yes, each of those three devices is a separate USB device. They will use up 3 USB ports.

...



Thanks everyone for the input! I have an inkling that I'm going to be getting a full suite of CH Products this Friday for my birthday. And by "inkling", I mean like 100% sure. I already pretty much knew and and then my 4 year old son gave it away yesterday. biggrin

One follow up question - what difference does it make if the USB Hub is powered or not? I'll get one either way, but I was just curious...


If the hub is not externally powered, then it is being powered by the computer's power supply, through your motherboard. An externally powered hub eliminates the possibility of your USB peripherals (on that hub) dragging down your computer power supply, or even causing damage to the motherboard. It's a cheap way to avoid some potential problems, as some peripherals can draw more juice than you might expect.


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