Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
#4015412 - 09/28/14 06:33 AM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Mdore]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 614
Alien_MasterMynd Offline
Member
Alien_MasterMynd  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 614
Czech Republic
piston: yes, it is a dream, I like especially the indicator which looks like six Vega indicators in one thumbsup

Hpasp: so why it is unable to see the "zero doppler" target? I would understand it when in full CW mode, but what about the others?

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4015446 - 09/28/14 08:49 AM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Mdore]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Hpasp  Offline

Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Similarly to all early digital radars, it can track just a few target.
You do not want to overload its precious little memory with false targets (ground reflection, cloud reflection, etc).

Imagine Volhov with a limitation of only 6 return can be drawn.

Solution is to use SDC always on, with doppler threshold speed is selected to be fairly high, to be on the safe side against of high speed wind blown clouds.




Last edited by Hpasp; 09/28/14 09:49 AM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4015509 - 09/28/14 01:33 PM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Mdore]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 614
Alien_MasterMynd Offline
Member
Alien_MasterMynd  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 614
Czech Republic
Thanks, now it is clear thumbsup

#4016792 - 10/01/14 03:15 PM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 8
ckfinite Offline
Junior Member
ckfinite  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 8
Would a modern radar, say the 92N6E or the AN/MPQ-65, be able to engage the ALARM under the parachute? If the limitation is based on memory, it seems like they should be able to.

#4017742 - 10/03/14 09:46 PM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Mdore]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Hpasp  Offline

Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
We generally has no information on modern* SAM equipment.

* fielded after the Cold War ended

Last edited by Hpasp; 10/03/14 09:46 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4018180 - 10/04/14 10:35 PM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: ckfinite]  
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,103
GrayGhost Offline
Hotshot
GrayGhost  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,103
If the ALARM is hanging on a chute waiting on the SAM to say hi, it's too late for the SAM.

Originally Posted By: ckfinite
Would a modern radar, say the 92N6E or the AN/MPQ-65, be able to engage the ALARM under the parachute? If the limitation is based on memory, it seems like they should be able to.


--
44th VFW
#4018282 - 10/05/14 05:50 AM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: GrayGhost]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,833
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,833
Originally Posted By: GrayGhost
If the ALARM is hanging on a chute waiting on the SAM to say hi, it's too late for the SAM.


Why so?

#4019316 - 10/07/14 06:00 PM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Mdore]  
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,103
GrayGhost Offline
Hotshot
GrayGhost  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,103
Because the ALARM has already gotten itself into attack position. The real opportunity that you had to stop it was while it was on its way there. Once it's hanging on that chute, it's going to attack within a couple of seconds (detach from chute and guide to target), while you need probably 15-30 sec to detect, classify, realize it's not a spurious contact (that's assuming your radar is looking that high, and in a non-TBM application it may well not be), and attack - by which time that ALARM is probably already sitting in the Rmin for your system, if not blowing up one of your radars.

With SEAD/DEAD, timing is everything.

Last edited by GrayGhost; 10/07/14 06:03 PM.

--
44th VFW
#4019320 - 10/07/14 06:12 PM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: GrayGhost]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,833
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,833
Originally Posted By: GrayGhost
Because the ALARM has already gotten itself into attack position. The real opportunity that you had to stop it was while it was on its way there. Once it's hanging on that chute, it's going to attack within a couple of seconds (detach from chute and guide to target), while you need probably 15-30 sec to detect, classify, realize it's not a spurious contact (that's assuming your radar is looking that high, and in a non-TBM application it may well not be), and attack - by which time that ALARM is probably already sitting in the Rmin for your system, if not blowing up one of your radars.

With SEAD/DEAD, timing is everything.


All of this would be true if the SAM was alone on the field... ALARM in particular was withdrawn from service - a bit strange for such effective weapon... Maybe something goes wrong with this concept?

#4019323 - 10/07/14 06:20 PM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: GrayGhost]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Hpasp  Offline

Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: GrayGhost
Because the ALARM has already gotten itself into attack position. The real opportunity that you had to stop it was while it was on its way there. Once it's hanging on that chute, it's going to attack within a couple of seconds (detach from chute and guide to target), while you need probably 15-30 sec to detect, classify, realize it's not a spurious contact (that's assuming your radar is looking that high, and in a non-TBM application it may well not be), and attack - by which time that ALARM is probably already sitting in the Rmin for your system, if not blowing up one of your radars.

With SEAD/DEAD, timing is everything.


Medium/long range SAM units need close range defence.
Here is the Russian answer for that challenge...



This is not a new concept.
Originally, when Dvina was fielded in the 60's, each battery received S-60 later ZU-23-2 for self defense.
In the 90's Hungarian Vega was defended by one Neva plus Igla's.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4019332 - 10/07/14 06:42 PM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Mdore]  
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,103
GrayGhost Offline
Hotshot
GrayGhost  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,103
Valid points.

And so with those in mind I ask ... do you believe that this ALARM missile is alone?

Do you believe that there aren't any air-launched decoys hanging around, wild weasels ready to bait SAMs, and that only a single missile of a single type will be launched, in a single attack mode?

Not saying you're wrong, just saying that you're moving the goalposts now smile


--
44th VFW
#4143117 - 07/05/15 04:21 PM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Mdore]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,833
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,833




















Last edited by piston79; 07/05/15 04:22 PM.
#4143205 - 07/05/15 09:49 PM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Mdore]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 614
Alien_MasterMynd Offline
Member
Alien_MasterMynd  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 614
Czech Republic
Nice! Do you have similar testing pictures and some "first hand" info for a "small Vega" - KH-31P (and later variants)?

#4143310 - 07/06/15 04:40 AM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Alien_MasterMynd]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,833
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,833
Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Nice! Do you have similar testing pictures and some "first hand" info for a "small Vega" - KH-31P (and later variants)?


The missiles where mostly with no explosive filler (to save targets).... This particular one is hit by KH-31:



#4143315 - 07/06/15 05:15 AM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Mdore]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,833
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,833



In yellow - AR variants...

#4193683 - 11/12/15 01:13 PM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Mdore]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Hpasp  Offline

Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Successor of HARM...




Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4197595 - 11/22/15 07:02 PM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Mdore]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,833
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,833

#4197667 - 11/22/15 09:35 PM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: piston79]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 614
Alien_MasterMynd Offline
Member
Alien_MasterMynd  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 614
Czech Republic
Originally Posted By: piston79


Thanks, it's a very interesting story with comments being more interesting than the article itself thumbsup

#4213157 - 01/04/16 09:18 PM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Mdore]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,833
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,833
This is a big one (Probably Kh-22P)...


#4213550 - 01/05/16 09:11 PM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Mdore]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,833
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,833



Looks that USSR developed some more ARM, but in a different class...:

KSR-11 / AS-5B "Kelt"






KSR-5P / AS-6 "Kingfish"






Kh-22 Burya / AS-4 "Kitchen"




Kh-15P / AS-16 "Kickback"





Last edited by piston79; 01/09/16 02:28 PM.
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Cat, Hpasp, RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
Justice for Maddie
by RossUK. 06/04/20 11:11 AM
Perhaps My Final Flight
by FishTaco. 06/04/20 02:59 AM
Blue Angel's will transition to the Rhino
by CyBerkut. 06/02/20 12:41 PM
The pancake chef...
by Mr_Blastman. 05/31/20 06:33 PM
DOSBox/MS-DOS6
by MarkG. 05/31/20 02:14 PM
Question for gun lovers
by Blade_RJ. 05/30/20 02:54 PM
The Last British Destroyer Commander of WWII
by F4UDash4. 05/30/20 12:43 PM
I'm down to one game.....
by PanzerMeyer. 05/29/20 02:19 PM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0