Alas!! i got it to work. @Duke yes i just installed it doing the 2 pack per launch method and works like a charm. @OldHat Thank yo so much, this mod makes it fun flying a Gotha now! i hated flying to a target for 36mins Just for me and my entire flight to be ripped to shreds by 3 Strutters in a matter of Seconds...Always seemed like 2 shots would take down a Gotha, now they gotta really fight to down me...and same to claim a kill as a gunner. Huzzah!

Excellent. Thank you for the info.

First off this really is an excellent mod Oldhat!

Just got a fuel tank hit and then ran out of gas after a good amount of fights.Has fuel lines being damaged been lessened also?One of the things that I noticed in a bomber career is that with an almost certainty,attacking enemies bases with ground weapons will cause me to lose all my fuel.

Just got back from two action packed campaign flights with 56 in April 1917.
To test the mod, strictly from a DM perspective, I turned OFF the "Girly Man" wind for this mission.

What I found most interesting was the effect the mod had on the AI.

For me I picked up a couple of wing holes (just a couple) in the first mission and suffered no apparent loss of maneuverability (which is nice if I have no strut, spar, cable, or aileron damage) so that was cool for only a couple of holes.
As for my ability to shoot and kill planes I didn't notice a huge difference and got kills both mission - unconfirmed of course. First kill the Alb went out of control after a couple of passes and crashed and the 2nd I lit him up at point blank range (approx. 20 rounds?) and I got a flame ball (explosion?) and he lost his wings and went down.
I am a pretty good shot when I have a gunsight in front of my face (go RFC!), know how to work WOFF deflection and trajectory, plus with no wind the Se is a great gun platform. We'll see how things go with the wind ON.

Now for the most interesting part: the effect on the AI.
Granted this was only two missions, and in nice weather, but it seemed the the dogfight lasted longer (naturally enough I suppose) and that the fight stayed more "compact and active" and didn't quickly spread out all over the place, and out of sight, like they usually do - presumably as the AI didn't suffer "end the mission and run" damage levels as quickly. First mission losses on both side were low (losses vs claims) but in the second it was more like the stock DM with 3 claims vs no losses not including my own. Again only two missions so we will see in more flights.

Now I have to be careful here so I don't ruin the WOFF magic but some things are just common computer game sense.
OldHat when you say you reduced the damage %'s I will guess there is an area on the plane (damage box) that, with the stock system, if I hit that box with the stock DM there was a 100% chance of suffering, for example, engine damage. You took that 100% chance and reduce it to 50%? I guess without knowing how "big" the damage boxes are I will trust your judgement on how "real" these %'s are. No complaints yet though.
Out of curiosity how many types of engine damage are there? Without getting into a lot of detail but, knowing how engines and bullets work together, you are correct that every bullet hit wouldn't necessarily impair an engine.

Wish I could quit my job and be a professional WOFF'er but the market for a WW1 computer flying ace just ain't there.
Hoping to get a flight or two in latter today. Lotsa stupid real life stuff to do first.

I think the biggest thing that can be done to add to the feeling is to add visual feedback from the dogfighting. What makes them feel like flying tanks is pouring tons of bullets into them and seeing no real effect on the plane. They keep flying and maneuvering as if they hadn't been hit at all. You don't know if you are hitting them or have any idea how much damage they have actually taken...or where they took it.

Possible effects that could help the immersion experience of combat

1. If they had more smoke puffs when rounds hit. Smaller ones too, maybe half the size of the effect now.
2. If it was easier to make them trail smoke.
3. If after a certain number of rounds hit the wings they would maybe show wing damage somehow instead of just black dots. Right now, the wings look perfect and then suddenly they just totally explode off the plane without any hint of when that is going to happen. If you could see the quality of the wings being degraded first, you'd know you were doing damage and be more accepting that they finally gave out.
4. If more planes would catch fire than had wings literally explode off the plane. I doubt total wing failure was more common than fire.
5. Sputtering engine sound effect when the engines get damaged after a certain point, especially when trailing smoke.

It's not so much the Damage Model itself that needs tweaking as the graphic effects associated with the damage that needs to be displayed so you can see the effect that you are having.

Well, I think the graphics are already done. It's just associating them with certain levels of damage.

There are already graphics showing wing spars, etc. When enough bullet damage happens to wings, show the first level of wing spar damage where some of the fabric has been torn away. Then it's not so surprising if the wings collapse later.

Same with smoke. There is already something that causes planes to trail smoke. Just adjust DM so it links to smoking effect when engines take X damage.

That kind of things is what I am thinking.

OldHat;

You are getting deeper and deeper into modding! Be careful you don't end up on the dev team or you'll age twice as fast!

I like it.

It's a fine balance Hellshade, with more smoke people complain that it has been smoking for too long and not gone down yet.
Yeah more looks good but unbalances elsewhere. We shall see anyway we were already working on changes to DM for better results hopefully something will emerge.

That's what I love about OBD. They never stop improving, no matter how great it already is. Looking forward to seeing what you do sir. You guys never fail to impress.

Yes Olhat we'll do something along the same lines. Maybe even in the Addon#2.

Thanks Hellshade, yeah WM is already looking at effects may be in a near update.

Awesome. I think there's currently a little bit of a disconnect in the experience of shooting like crazy at a plane and you don't see any actual damage represented (bullet dots if in Normal res, nothing if in High res) and then all of a sudden the wings just totally fail without warning. I'm sure that did actually happen sometimes, but maybe just some kind of intermediate wing damage graphic or something is my thoughts. Just different things showing your rounds are having an impact.

Anyways...can't wait. Whatever you do, I'm buying it.

Wow.
Seems like I have been using that word around here a lot lately.

I would just like to say that while I am always happy when the devs look into things, I fully appreciate the fact that Damage Models are very much a "moving target", a lot like Flight Models and AI behavior, where they (the devs) will never come up with something that makes everyone happy. So, I don't think the current DM is "broken" at all or in any way, despite some of my personal preferences. And that's all they are. Personal preferences.

I think especially because my shooting skills are different from somebody elses, we may be getting very, very different results and it's not the DM "fault" at all. Sometimes I get lucky and shoot stuff down fast, where others may not be so lucky as often. If the Devs changed the DM to make it harder for me to shoot things down, then others may feel like it becomes impossible to kill AI planes and you end up with "Flying tank" syndrome. If they make it easier to shoot things down for others, I may end up getting lucky more often and it feels too easy. So there's no "right answer."

While I personally would welcome OldHats approach (and I definitely appreciate his efforts) to the DM of cables and control surfaces being harder to hit and so planes retain their agility longer (most of the time) during combat, my personal preference isn't so much asking for changes to the DM itself as it is just more visible feedback of damage that has been done to the plane before you get a total structural failure. That way you are less surprised when suddenly all four wings disintegrate, for example.