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#4130406 - 06/07/15 02:38 AM
Re: Too much negativity recently on simhq?
[Re: Nate]
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,806
Bearcat99
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,806
USA
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But WOW this should have been the end of the thread. I'll quote it in full because, Dart, nailed it. Not only Nailed it but did so, eloquently. I think that the tone of just about every simulation site has shifted along with the change of demographics.
When I came to SimHQ it was populated by simulation enthusiasts rather than simulation consumers. Folks seemed to want to share the positive aspects of simulations and work towards getting the most of them instead of just seeing who could find the most things wrong with them.
Not to say there wasn't plenty of criticism of sims. The much vaunted original IL-2 had the Great Dot War, where folks had a protracted argument over the size and shade of ground objects from a distance. But few said the whole sim was crap because of it. There was also the claims of bias against German aircraft in FM/DM, with all sorts of charts and references thrown around, but even then the critics gave the sim its due.
I think the development of Rise of Flight marked the change. It was slagged relentlessly even before the semi-public beta release, which I found reprehensible. Everything was wrong with it, it would seem, from requiring connection to pay-for-plane, and whether or not it was interesting or entertaining to play wasn't germane to the discussion. Things got so bad I left SimHQ for about a year over it.
Some sims just don't work out. CloD is a prime example for me. The darned thing just doesn't run well enough on my rather beefy rig to be enjoyable. The who-shot-John of why it was released like that doesn't matter - it was just broken for me and there weren't any tweaks or fixes to it. I really dislike modding games and sims, so I just uninstalled it and moved on.
In the forums, however, the drumbeat of criticism continued (and continues to this day). In the "olden times" a sim like that would see its forum just wither and die as fewer folks played it and a couple folks dove in unawares. Or, as it has been modded to work well now, be full of folks who talk up the merits of mods and how to get the most of them.
You know, enthusiasts looking to get the most enjoyment out of it. Instead we get a consumer complaint line.
I don't like black licorice. But I don't frequent licorice boards to tell the people that I think it's crap and anyone who likes it is also crap.
On official forums on company sites: I find complaints about intolerance for criticism of the product the company is producing on its public face hilarious. Their forums are an extension of their marketing campaign, and will naturally be administered to be in alignment with it.
Go to the NaturalPoint forums and slag their product. It's a well run forum, so one will probably get a question back asking what troubleshooting has been done and even an offer for replacement of a unit. Continue on with a "your product is just crap" line and it will be erased from their forums if they have any sense.
Criticize employees of the company by name and whatever you posted is probably gone for a host of reasons. Heck, the company might be open to legal action by the employee if they let it remain.
The same is true for any company sponsored site, from Apple to Zip Industries. If not the end of the thread quoted in every subsequent post.
Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
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#4130413 - 06/07/15 02:53 AM
Re: Too much negativity recently on simhq?
[Re: tagTaken2]
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 14,410
Tom_Weiss
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 14,410
3rd Planet, Sun
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it is not all a negative experience - take my primary flight sim, where I spent the bulk of my time, FSX-P3D, since 2007 Ive watched it getting better and better. Over the years, there were of course bad moments (FLIGHT, the end of FSX, P3D v2.0 being unstable in bad weather) and some disappointments, but it never stopped being a source of joy to me, I get constantly great feedback from developers and never had a bad experience in any forums. Even when there were some misunderstanding it got solved swiftly.
I tend to concentrate on the positive side of flight sims, the negative I discard as worthless.
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#4130627 - 06/07/15 09:19 PM
Re: Too much negativity recently on simhq?
[Re: Tom_Weiss]
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,806
Bearcat99
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,806
USA
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I tend to concentrate on the positive side of flight sims, the negative I discard as worthless.
That is a good road to take.... For some people debating about the shortcomings of a sim becomes the positive so to speak .. or so it would seem. I never could get CFS 3 to work with my MSFFB sticks for some totally unfathomable reason.. from the day it came out.. and CFS 3 was not very good initially anyway and I was one of those guys who was on line when the guy opened the box.. After a few weeks of trying.. I let it go.. I had IL2 and for me it was CFS what? The itch was being scratched and my $50 was gone but live and learn.. The times I have been on the CFS boards here since I joined SHQ in 03 I could probably count on two hands at the most.. and one of the reasons I stopped going to SOH was that it was primarily a CFS sim site... so why go there..? I hated the sim... Point being that if many simmers spent more time discussing sims that they actually like and promoting them and flying them as opposed to discussing sims they do not like in an endless loop of discontent the genre in general would probably be a lot better off in the long run.
Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
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#4130715 - 06/08/15 06:31 AM
Re: Too much negativity recently on simhq?
[Re: Bearcat99]
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,187
Force10
I'm just a
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I'm just a
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,187
CA
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I never could get CFS 3 to work with my MSFFB sticks for some totally unfathomable reason.. from the day it came out.. and CFS 3 was not very good initially anyway and I was one of those guys who was on line when the guy opened the box.. After a few weeks of trying.. I let it go.. I had IL2 and for me it was CFS what? The itch was being scratched and my $50 was gone but live and learn.. The times I have been on the CFS boards here since I joined SHQ in 03 I could probably count on two hands at the most.. and one of the reasons I stopped going to SOH was that it was primarily a CFS sim site... so why go there..? I hated the sim...
Point being that if many simmers spent more time discussing sims that they actually like and promoting them and flying them as opposed to discussing sims they do not like in an endless loop of discontent the genre in general would probably be a lot better off in the long run. Well, IMO that's not a good example of what to do in today's times. It was easy back then for all of us to walk away from CFS3. IL-2 was starting to flourish and there were other alternatives with active flight sim developers still about in 2002. Since now all we really have is a couple developers left in the CFS game...it's a different situation. In the case of BOS...sadly...it appears many are taking your advice and just walking away. Here's what I saw when I logged in tonight and filtered by number of players high to low:  A grand total of 4 people playing online. While having folks just "walk away" instead of voicing their concerns about how the game could be better might make an easier time for moderators on a forum...it's only going to kill the sim faster. If enough customers follow your advice Bearcat...BOS will end up just like CFS3...dead. IMO of course. 
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Oddball from Kelly's Heroes: "If we're late, it's cause we're dead"
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#4130733 - 06/08/15 08:39 AM
Re: Too much negativity recently on simhq?
[Re: tagTaken2]
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,803
Lewis-A2A
Tom Thumb
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Tom Thumb
Senior Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,803
Lowestoft - UK
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CFS3 is dead!?
Damn don't tell the CFS3 community will you?
Can you guys of doom and gloom (at an age where we have more flight sims combat or otherwise than EVER before with more players on and offline) also replace the consistent 'flightsim' popping up in this thread with 'combat flight sim' as a lot of it doesn't apply to civvy sims which are currently undergoing a Renaissance of super realism, choice and new players all of there own.
Last edited by Lewis-A2A; 06/08/15 12:10 PM.
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#4130760 - 06/08/15 11:42 AM
Re: Too much negativity recently on simhq?
[Re: Force10]
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,481
PanzerMeyer
Pro-Consul of Florida
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Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,481
Miami, FL USA
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A grand total of 4 people playing online. While having folks just "walk away" instead of voicing their concerns about how the game could be better might make an easier time for moderators on a forum...it's only going to kill the sim faster. If enough customers follow your advice Bearcat...BOS will end up just like CFS3...dead. IMO of course. Wow. Rise of Flight is still getting pretty decent online numbers but that screenshot for Battle of Stalingrad is just sad.
Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 06/08/15 01:01 PM.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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#4130762 - 06/08/15 11:45 AM
Re: Too much negativity recently on simhq?
[Re: PanzerMeyer]
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,113
KraziKanuK
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,113
Ottawa Canada
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Wow. Rise of Fight is still getting pretty decent online numbers but that screenshot for Battle of Stalingrad is just sad.
Well BoS did commit suicide with some decisions they made.
There was only 16 squadrons of RAF fighters that used 100 octane during the BoB.
The Fw190A could not fly with the outer cannon removed.
There was no Fw190A-8s flying with the JGs in 1945.
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#4130779 - 06/08/15 12:59 PM
Re: Too much negativity recently on simhq?
[Re: tagTaken2]
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,700
Peally
Hotshot
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Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,700
Wisconsin, USA
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Sad thing is for multiplayer it's pretty dang fun IMO, but we now live in the world of drama queens. I'd rather play with those 4 people and the guys I fly with in coop once in a while than watch a text box full of debates when I'm trying to fly (I love when people use MP games as forums!).
Scully: Victim died of multiple stab wounds.
Mulder: *throws her a file* Ever heard of the knife alien?
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#4130781 - 06/08/15 01:03 PM
Re: Too much negativity recently on simhq?
[Re: Peally]
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,481
PanzerMeyer
Pro-Consul of Florida
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Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,481
Miami, FL USA
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Sad thing is for multiplayer it's pretty dang fun IMO, but we now live in the world of drama queens. I'd rather play with those 4 people and the guys I fly with in coop once in a while than watch a text box full of debates when I'm trying to fly (I love when people use MP games as forums!). I ask this question since I have yet to buy BoS. Does the multiplayer have coop missions or is it mostly dogfight? Also, are there a lot of coop missions being made by the community?
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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#4130808 - 06/08/15 02:21 PM
Re: Too much negativity recently on simhq?
[Re: tagTaken2]
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master
Entil'zha
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Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
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No and no.
The Jedi Master
The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
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#4130811 - 06/08/15 02:24 PM
Re: Too much negativity recently on simhq?
[Re: Jedi Master]
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,481
PanzerMeyer
Pro-Consul of Florida
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Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,481
Miami, FL USA
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No and no.
The Jedi Master I see I'll be holding off on my purchase then.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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#4130829 - 06/08/15 02:44 PM
Re: Too much negativity recently on simhq?
[Re: Lewis-A2A]
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,806
Bearcat99
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,806
USA
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CFS3 is dead!?
Damn don't tell the CFS3 community will you?
Can you guys of doom and gloom (at an age where we have more flight sims combat or otherwise than EVER before with more players on and offline) also replace the consistent 'flightsim' popping up in this thread with 'combat flight sim' as a lot of it doesn't apply to civvy sims which are currently undergoing a Renaissance of super realism, choice and new players all of there own.
There are guys still flying CFS 1 actually.. CFS 3 just did not work for me.. so I let it go.. I expected something more on the order of that promo video.. (Bobbbyyyyyy!!!!!!!.. ) and that was not what I got and I seemed to be one of the few who had the FFB issue and no one could help me with it.. but that negativity that this thread is about? Yup... it's like mold... or weeds... moldy weeds.... just.. growing.. and molding..
Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
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#4130836 - 06/08/15 02:52 PM
Re: Too much negativity recently on simhq?
[Re: Force10]
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,562
Airdrop01
Chief Pheasant Controller
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Chief Pheasant Controller
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,562
Kansas, USA
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I never could get CFS 3 to work with my MSFFB sticks for some totally unfathomable reason.. from the day it came out.. and CFS 3 was not very good initially anyway and I was one of those guys who was on line when the guy opened the box.. After a few weeks of trying.. I let it go.. I had IL2 and for me it was CFS what? The itch was being scratched and my $50 was gone but live and learn.. The times I have been on the CFS boards here since I joined SHQ in 03 I could probably count on two hands at the most.. and one of the reasons I stopped going to SOH was that it was primarily a CFS sim site... so why go there..? I hated the sim...
Point being that if many simmers spent more time discussing sims that they actually like and promoting them and flying them as opposed to discussing sims they do not like in an endless loop of discontent the genre in general would probably be a lot better off in the long run. Well, IMO that's not a good example of what to do in today's times. It was easy back then for all of us to walk away from CFS3. IL-2 was starting to flourish and there were other alternatives with active flight sim developers still about in 2002. Since now all we really have is a couple developers left in the CFS game...it's a different situation. In the case of BOS...sadly...it appears many are taking your advice and just walking away. Here's what I saw when I logged in tonight and filtered by number of players high to low: A grand total of 4 people playing online. While having folks just "walk away" instead of voicing their concerns about how the game could be better might make an easier time for moderators on a forum...it's only going to kill the sim faster. If enough customers follow your advice Bearcat...BOS will end up just like CFS3...dead. IMO of course. Lucky for em they had a laser like focus on creating a compelling single player experience as suggested. Oh. Wait. 
"For I know the plans that I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11
Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Matthew 5:11
Indeed we call blessed those who have persevered. You have heard of the perseverance of Job, and you have seen the purpose of the Lord, because “the Lord is compassionate and merciful. James 5:11
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#4130843 - 06/08/15 03:06 PM
Re: Too much negativity recently on simhq?
[Re: Force10]
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,806
Bearcat99
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,806
USA
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I never could get CFS 3 to work with my MSFFB sticks for some totally unfathomable reason.. from the day it came out.. and CFS 3 was not very good initially anyway and I was one of those guys who was on line when the guy opened the box.. After a few weeks of trying.. I let it go.. I had IL2 and for me it was CFS what? The itch was being scratched and my $50 was gone but live and learn.. The times I have been on the CFS boards here since I joined SHQ in 03 I could probably count on two hands at the most.. and one of the reasons I stopped going to SOH was that it was primarily a CFS sim site... so why go there..? I hated the sim...
Point being that if many simmers spent more time discussing sims that they actually like and promoting them and flying them as opposed to discussing sims they do not like in an endless loop of discontent the genre in general would probably be a lot better off in the long run. Since now all we really have is a couple developers left in the CFS game...it's a different situation. In the case of BOS...sadly... it appears many are taking your advice and just walking away. Here's what I saw when I logged in tonight and filtered by number of players high to low: A grand total of 4 people playing online. While having folks just "walk away" instead of voicing their concerns about how the game could be better might make an easier time for moderators on a forum...it's only going to kill the sim faster. If enough customers follow your advice Bearcat...BOS will end up just like CFS3...dead. IMO of course. Uhhhhh first of all... I didn't offer any advice ... secondly if I had.. or if my comments in the post you quoted could be construed as advice.. it wouldn't be to walk away from BoS.. unless of course you don't like it, and that advice.. if construed that way and followed would certainly make for less negativity on forums concerning sims that folks didn't like because they would be flying, promoting, discussing and enjoying what they did like.. Of course there are a lot of folks who do still like BoS regardless to that screenshot.. and and that screenshot is not a true picture of what is going on with BoS... I have no doubt that BoS will be a different sim a year from now as far as content, and community goes.. Consider where CoD was in November of 2011... and I say that not to toss a dig at CoD but merely to say that in March of 2012 things were looking pretty bleak for CoD.. Just go to the yellowboards or even here for that matter and look at the posts from those days.. It had it's ardent supporters but it was not getting rave reviews throughout the flight sim community outside of the band of devoted followers it had.. but it is still here.. regardless to whether it was a modding team or a developer.. it is still here. There were many folks in the FS community who were swearing up and down that BoB as it was called throughout most of the 5 years between it's initial scheduled release and it's actual release.. was vaporware that would never come ... Well it came.. it had issues.. big ones .. that left some folks traumatized to this day.. It became the poster child for as bungled a release as you can get considering it's ready made fan base that had been chomping at the bit for 5 years waiting for it.. The phrase "Burned once by CLoD" has become common enough with the announcement of any new product.. but as bad as all that was.. it is still here.. so the present state of certain aspects of BoS are bumps in the road not mountains. I have very little doubt that regardless to what BoS looks like now it will still be here and in much better shape than it is now ..... and still developer supported.
Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
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#4130844 - 06/08/15 03:06 PM
Re: Too much negativity recently on simhq?
[Re: Airdrop01]
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,481
PanzerMeyer
Pro-Consul of Florida
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Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,481
Miami, FL USA
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Joe Biden is going to sue you for using one of his patented terms.
Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 06/08/15 03:09 PM.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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#4130852 - 06/08/15 03:14 PM
Re: Too much negativity recently on simhq?
[Re: tagTaken2]
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master
Entil'zha
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Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
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Joe Biden was already sued by the inventors of the laser because they patented the laser.
The Jedi Master
The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
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Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
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