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#4128070 - 06/02/15 07:20 PM Re: In search of answers... *** [Re: KodiakJac]  
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SharpeXB Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bucksnort
Originally Posted By: SharpeXB
The fact that modders have been able to make the game sucessful with their own volunteer efforts doesn't mean CoD should serve as some sort of benchmark or standard for this genre. If we want any more of these products made they need to have realistic and achievable goals. CoD is the past and the best that can be done is to learn from the example and go forward. The future is bright for this hobby.


Modders also did this for IL-2 1946, as was done for Red Baron 3D before it. Albert's insular approach to BoS is an aberration, not the norm, and will restrict the overall growth and lifespan of BoS. Games like the ARMA series that encourage an active modding community continue this tradition into the future. Loft's efforts to create a new norm will go nowhere. And its disappointing to see some folks supporting his efforts to do so.

Yes but if I understand correctly 1946 was only modded (ie hacked) after it was no longer developer supported. Same is the case with CoD
BoS still has developer support. It doesn't need to be kept on life support like the discontinued sims.


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#4128073 - 06/02/15 07:27 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: SharpeXB]  
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theOden Offline
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Originally Posted By: SharpeXB
.. It doesn't need to be kept on life support ..

Oh it will, only difference is the devs are being paid.
(for now)

#4128076 - 06/02/15 07:31 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: JagerNeun]  
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bongodriver Offline
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it's already on life support, IL2 and CloD were reborn once the plug was pulled, maybe there is hope for BOS.

#4128081 - 06/02/15 07:37 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: bongodriver]  
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SharpeXB Offline
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Originally Posted By: bongodriver
IL2 and CloD were reborn once the plug was pulled

Yeah that's not the business plan we want flight sims following.


Velocity Micro PC | Asus Z97-A | i7-4790K @4.7GHz | Corsair H80iGT Liquid CPU Cooler | 32GB DDR3-1600MHz Memory | EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC 11GB | 240gb Intel 520 Series SSD | 850 W Corsair PSU | Windows 10 Home | Samsung U28D590D UHD 28" Monitor | Bose Companion 5 Speakers | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5
#4128086 - 06/02/15 07:40 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: SharpeXB]  
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KodiakJac Offline
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Originally Posted By: SharpeXB
Originally Posted By: Bucksnort
Originally Posted By: SharpeXB
The fact that modders have been able to make the game sucessful with their own volunteer efforts doesn't mean CoD should serve as some sort of benchmark or standard for this genre. If we want any more of these products made they need to have realistic and achievable goals. CoD is the past and the best that can be done is to learn from the example and go forward. The future is bright for this hobby.


Modders also did this for IL-2 1946, as was done for Red Baron 3D before it. Albert's insular approach to BoS is an aberration, not the norm, and will restrict the overall growth and lifespan of BoS. Games like the ARMA series that encourage an active modding community continue this tradition into the future. Loft's efforts to create a new norm will go nowhere. And its disappointing to see some folks supporting his efforts to do so.

Yes but if I understand correctly 1946 was only modded (ie hacked) after it was no longer developer supported. Same is the case with CoD
BoS still has developer support. It doesn't need to be kept on life support like the discontinued sims.


Who are doing nothing for the single player community. So "developer supported" is meaningless to many single players in the instance of BoS.


Dogfighting is what you do "after" you drop your bombs and blow something up!
Can you say "JABO!" thumbsup
#4128087 - 06/02/15 07:42 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: SharpeXB]  
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KodiakJac Offline
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Originally Posted By: SharpeXB
Originally Posted By: bongodriver
IL2 and CloD were reborn once the plug was pulled

Yeah that's not the business plan we want flight sims following.


The end result is a better single player game than BoS. Why would I not want that? I don't like business plans that don't include me as a customer.


Dogfighting is what you do "after" you drop your bombs and blow something up!
Can you say "JABO!" thumbsup
#4128088 - 06/02/15 07:43 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: SharpeXB]  
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dburne Offline
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Originally Posted By: SharpeXB

Yeah that's not the business plan we want flight sims following.


Who is the we you are referring to here Sharpe?

Nice job of creating a distraction btw...


Don

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#4128091 - 06/02/15 07:47 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: dburne]  
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SharpeXB Offline
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Originally Posted By: dburne
Originally Posted By: SharpeXB

Yeah that's not the business plan we want flight sims following.


Who is the we you are referring to here Sharpe?

Nice job of creating a distraction btw...

I think I can speak for most customers that want the companies who make products we like to stay in business doing exactly that.
The idea that the only way to create a good flight sim is to go bankrupt and hand it over to modders is sorta absurd. I think only a tiny misguided group of enthusiasts think that's a viable plan.


Velocity Micro PC | Asus Z97-A | i7-4790K @4.7GHz | Corsair H80iGT Liquid CPU Cooler | 32GB DDR3-1600MHz Memory | EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC 11GB | 240gb Intel 520 Series SSD | 850 W Corsair PSU | Windows 10 Home | Samsung U28D590D UHD 28" Monitor | Bose Companion 5 Speakers | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5
#4128096 - 06/02/15 07:54 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: SharpeXB]  
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dburne Offline
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Originally Posted By: SharpeXB
I think I can speak for most customers that want the companies who make products we like to stay in business doing exactly that.
The idea that the only way to create a good flight sim is to go bankrupt and hand it over to modders is sorta absurd. I think only a tiny misguided group of enthusiasts think that's a viable plan.


Actually no, you may think you can, but I don't think you can at all. You can speak for yourself, that is all.

Your are missing the whole point, and imho are just here to create a diversion... too bad, the thread was going well and getting some answers to some questions...

But NO, you are not speaking for me in any way, or most flight simmers.



Last edited by dburne; 06/02/15 07:56 PM.

Don

EVGA X-79 Dark MB|I-7 4820K@4.50 GHz|EVGA 1080 Ti FTW3|16GB Corsair Dominator PC2133 Ram|Oculus Rift CV1|Virpil T-50 stick, Warthog throttle|MFG Crosswind Pedals
#4128097 - 06/02/15 07:58 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: SharpeXB]  
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theOden Offline
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Originally Posted By: SharpeXB
..
The idea that the only way to create a good flight sim is to go bankrupt and hand it over to modders is sorta absurd. I think only a tiny misguided group of enthusiasts think that's a viable plan.

Like Bucksnort said, we are not included in these guys business plan and as such we're out of new products anyhow.
Modders seems to look for what we SP guys look for so if this would happen we would suddenly have a sim to use.
Get it?
As is, the newest sim on the market is still Dover.

#4128099 - 06/02/15 08:01 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: JagerNeun]  
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bongodriver Offline
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Maybe Sharpe is part of the business plan......

#4128100 - 06/02/15 08:01 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: JagerNeun]  
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Airdrop01 Offline
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Why is it that we were getting answers in the thread and a [supporter] has to come in and start a debate to shut it down.

It's long arm of the NOSB side of the partnership.

Avoid the derogatory labels for detractors (ie. haters) and supporters (ie. fan boys, sycophants) participating in these forums. I recently let "sycophant" slide, but it was in reference to participants in some other forums, not SimHQ's.

Last edited by CyBerkut; 06/02/15 08:07 PM. Reason: Moderation

"For I know the plans that I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11

Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Matthew 5:11

Indeed we call blessed those who have persevered. You have heard of the perseverance of Job, and you have seen the purpose of the Lord, because “the Lord is compassionate and merciful. James 5:11
#4128103 - 06/02/15 08:03 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: Airdrop01]  
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dburne Offline
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Originally Posted By: Airdrop01
Why is it that we were getting answers in the thread and a [supporter] has to come in and start a debate to shut it down.



Glad I was not the only one to notice that... and of course, we fell for it hook , line, and sinker - myself included. Duh!

Last edited by CyBerkut; 06/02/15 08:30 PM. Reason: Edited quoted material

Don

EVGA X-79 Dark MB|I-7 4820K@4.50 GHz|EVGA 1080 Ti FTW3|16GB Corsair Dominator PC2133 Ram|Oculus Rift CV1|Virpil T-50 stick, Warthog throttle|MFG Crosswind Pedals
#4128104 - 06/02/15 08:04 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: SharpeXB]  
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KodiakJac Offline
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Originally Posted By: SharpeXB
Originally Posted By: dburne
Originally Posted By: SharpeXB

Yeah that's not the business plan we want flight sims following.


Who is the we you are referring to here Sharpe?

Nice job of creating a distraction btw...

I think I can speak for most customers that want the companies who make products we like to stay in business doing exactly that.
The idea that the only way to create a good flight sim is to go bankrupt and hand it over to modders is sorta absurd. I think only a tiny misguided group of enthusiasts think that's a viable plan.


It appears there is only a tiny group of enthusiasts who like BoS. You try to marginalize those who don't like BoS when in fact they appear to be the majority of simmers. How do you explain the rate of game abandonment among Steam players who own BoS. Within 30 days of release Steam players were leaving BoS faster than it could be sold. The prospects for BoS in its current state are bleak, and you know it:



Dogfighting is what you do "after" you drop your bombs and blow something up!
Can you say "JABO!" thumbsup
#4128105 - 06/02/15 08:06 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: JagerNeun]  
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KodiakJac Offline
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Yeah, you're right. A [text deleted] has shown up and I fell for it to hahaha

Last edited by CyBerkut; 06/02/15 08:12 PM. Reason: Moderation

Dogfighting is what you do "after" you drop your bombs and blow something up!
Can you say "JABO!" thumbsup
#4128114 - 06/02/15 08:21 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: dburne]  
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SharpeXB Offline
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Originally Posted By: dburne

Your are missing the whole point, and imho are just here to create a diversion... too bad, the thread was going well and getting some answers to some questions...

By all means. Don't let me distract you from asking important questions. Go ahead an ask Jason if he thinks it would be a good idea to let 1CGS go bankrupt so modders can "improve" BoS. And make it as "good" as Cliffs of Dover.


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#4128118 - 06/02/15 08:25 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: JagerNeun]  
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Sunchaser Offline
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Houston, Tx.
Thanks for the reply.

#4128128 - 06/02/15 08:58 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: Airdrop01]  
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777 Studios - Jason Offline
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Originally Posted By: Airdrop01
Well, I wil say this: I own a business with roughly $20M in annual revenue, so smallish but not insignificant. I have something like 20 partners, with varying degrees of power. I have the largest possible equity stake and yet that means I still have almost no control whatsoever individually.

In other words, I can at least appreciate how you can be an owner and still not have control.

I really don't like the Moscow part of this at all. I don't like how at what I will call the middle (after EA but before now) the U.S. side handled P.R. and customers either. I won't buy BOM because of the way SP was done (though I think it could be fixed, I'm not a software person so don't know but I am not sure I believe Zhilkov and his group have any interest in what I want (which is something I wish I knew before I became a "founder."). Nevertheless, I appreciate you answering questions.

I really wish the SP part would be addressed. Heck, as boring as the SP is, if I could even just reset the campaign at will or adjust the difficulty (the level system is nuts) let alone have a pilot or "regiment," I'd be willing to give it a go.

But as is, I just don't think we (I) am the target audience. The irritating part of that isn't that, it is that I feel we were mislead to get the cash. Maybe not by you but by 1CGS. The thing of it is is that while you may not have control for the decisions of a business in which you're a partner, you're still responsible for those decisions and do not get to disavow them.

This offering of answering questions is honestly the first time I felt someone acknowledged that so at least there is that and for that I say thanks.


I'm not disavowing anything or anyone. You want to blame me for the certain design decisions that's fine. But stuff like killing CLOD etc. I simply had nothing to do with. I just wanted to answer some questions head on when I keep hearing about incorrect things about myself or the team. I simply tried to provide information to clear some things up.

The product will continue to evolve as will I and others on the team. We'll see what the future brings.

This thread has devolved since I started answering questions so I'm moving on.

See you in the skies.

Jason

#4128130 - 06/02/15 09:03 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: 777 Studios - Jason]  
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dburne Offline
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Originally Posted By: 777 Studios - Jason
The product will continue to evolve as will I and others on the team. We'll see what the future brings.

This thread has devolved since I started answering questions so I'm moving on.

See you in the skies.

Jason


Thanks for your participation here today Jason, your feedback is appreciated.


Don

EVGA X-79 Dark MB|I-7 4820K@4.50 GHz|EVGA 1080 Ti FTW3|16GB Corsair Dominator PC2133 Ram|Oculus Rift CV1|Virpil T-50 stick, Warthog throttle|MFG Crosswind Pedals
#4128135 - 06/02/15 09:17 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: dburne]  
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Cloyd Offline
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Originally Posted By: dburne
Originally Posted By: 777 Studios - Jason
The product will continue to evolve as will I and others on the team. We'll see what the future brings.

This thread has devolved since I started answering questions so I'm moving on.

See you in the skies.

Jason


Thanks for your participation here today Jason, your feedback is appreciated.


I'd like to second that.

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