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#4127768 - 06/02/15 07:03 AM Re: In search of answers... *** [Re: JagerNeun]  
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777 Studios - Jason Offline
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Bongo accused me of lying about a teammates sickness to gain favor with the community. That's lower than dog crap and he deserved my wrath that day. Funny how you brag about being no BS, but when I'm no BS I'm a jerk. I do not have to be a punching bag for you guys. I'm the sorry SOB that tries to give you what you want.

I tried to reason with you one last time Bliss. I'm done.

And if by "attacking" me I'd know it is a physical threat it's duly noted.

Jason

Last edited by 777 Studios - Jason; 06/02/15 07:04 AM.
#4127770 - 06/02/15 07:12 AM Re: In search of answers... [Re: JagerNeun]  
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Ah.. Twisting words again. Bongo made a bad joke, and it was bad. But in no way shape or form, should you have responded like you did.

And by attacking, I would actually attack you with words, which is not criticizing you or a a piece of software. For some reason you take criticizing as attacking.

And I don't brag about anything. I just tell it like it is without the politician verbage. Trust me, I know I will never be anything in the flight simming community other than a customer. But I would hope some dev team out there realizes the ingredients to what makes a good flight sim. The community is aching for a game capable like old IL2.

#4127773 - 06/02/15 07:33 AM Re: In search of answers... [Re: JagerNeun]  
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Extreme_One Offline
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1. Once and for all, did you or didn't you post someone's credit card details? (Note I did not say "for nefarious purposes")

2. Why is Moscow so adamant that they will not improve the single player aspect of the game?
Quote:
The "devs" as you put it, meaning the Moscow office will never do anything like this.

Quote:
The only person in the company interested in doing this is me so please don't push for Moscow to be involved.

Quote:
Moscow office is not interested in this idea. This idea can be done in an outside app as well.


3. How is it even conceivable that our best hope for a working campaign system, is to minimise the game, and load a 3rd party program, just to achieve standard game functionality? I can't think of another game (except ROF), in any genre, that has to rely on something so archaic and clumsy.

4. Was there any market research done, for you to have come to the conclusion that there was this audience of casual gamers waiting for a game like BOS? Why were the findings of this research so incorrect? Or is it that, as so many suspect, someone in Moscow simply saw Warthunder and the like and presumed they knew how to do something similar?

5. Why do winter skins need to be unlocked on the winter map? Will summer skins need to be unlocked on the summer map?

Last edited by Extreme_One; 06/02/15 07:35 AM.
#4127774 - 06/02/15 07:44 AM Re: In search of answers... [Re: JagerNeun]  
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Revvin Offline
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Well my post seems to have caused a bit of a stir or at least a very small part of it, what I posted was told to me by the person whose details were posted on an open forum. Of all the accusations levelled against Jason over the years he has never been afraid to come here and defend himself. I made no assumption on the motive for posting someone's details and made no comment about a motive or intent just that I was told those details were posted in an open forum so my question is - Jason do you categorically deny that you posted a forum members credit card details in an open forum, if so then of course I retract my comment.

The usual suspects whip themselves into a frenzy over that comment, you’d think the world had gone mad yet barely a peep of condemnation to be heard about Jason being involved in directly paying or incentivising people to combat negative posts and post positively about his product. Not a murmur of discontent when he posted a foul mouthed tirade repeatedly telling a member here to f*** you, in fact some leapt to his defence. I suppose this is par for the course with yet another thread containing criticism is locked on the official forums.

I will of course respect the rules of this forum and I accept the moderator’s decision, it certainly was not my intention to increase his workload any further than it already is such is the good job he does here allowing open discussion about the simulation and its developers something that has been sadly lacking on the official forums.

#4127776 - 06/02/15 07:46 AM Re: In search of answers... [Re: 777 Studios - Jason]  
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Revvin Offline
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Originally Posted By: 777 Studios - Jason
Bongo accused me of lying about a teammates sickness to gain favor with the community. That's lower than dog crap and he deserved my wrath that day. Funny how you brag about being no BS, but when I'm no BS I'm a jerk. I do not have to be a punching bag for you guys. I'm the sorry SOB that tries to give you what you want.

I tried to reason with you one last time Bliss. I'm done.

And if by "attacking" me I'd know it is a physical threat it's duly noted.

Jason


Bongodriver did not accuse you of lying about a team mates sickness.

#4127786 - 06/02/15 09:04 AM Re: In search of answers... [Re: Revvin]  
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theOden Offline
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Originally Posted By: Revvin
..
Bongodriver did not accuse you of lying about a team mates sickness.

Very correct, he was far from even.
(and I'm not even native english speaker)
But the extreme response did indicate something else playing behind the scenes.
Never seen anything like it.
"Hopefully" it was just loads of personal frustration from Jasons side, guess we will never know.

#4127789 - 06/02/15 09:17 AM Re: In search of answers... [Re: 777 Studios - Jason]  
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KodiakJac Offline
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Originally Posted By: 777 Studios - Jason


Your making a leap from design change to a con. To con people we would have had that intent that saying one thing would cause a result with no intention of fulfilling the earlier comment and and that's not what happened here. You simply didn't like the change Loft made and neither did I frankly, but it's not a con. We warned everyone during early access that things may change and the EULA allowed for changes. There was no con, just a change some didn't like. It's as simple as that. We also said no refund from the start because early access is a dicey thing and we can't worry about refunds if we make a bad decision.

And I am not the final say on refunds. Moscow office is. I forward all refund requests to them.

Maybe the game design will change at some point to something more along the lines of what you want. Zak mentioned something recently, but I haven't been briefed on it yet.

It's no secret I would like to have something like the ROF Career, that's why I have been trying to adapt the PWCG app to BOS to at least give role-players something they like.

Jason


Fair enough.

The EULA allowed for BoS to be released as a tug boat racing game. So there was a level of assumed trust between 1CGS and Early Access customers that was irreparably damaged by Albert Zhiltsov (Loft). I believe you when you say you were unable to stop it from happening. But what Albert did without regard to the trust placed in him by Early Access customers and his unwillingness to offer refunds was unscrupulous.

un·scru·pu·lous

adjective: unscrupulous

having or showing no moral principles; not honest or fair.


Dogfighting is what you do "after" you drop your bombs and blow something up!
Can you say "JABO!" thumbsup
#4127864 - 06/02/15 01:29 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: theOden]  
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Bearcat99 Offline
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Originally Posted By: theOden
Originally Posted By: Revvin
..
Bongodriver did not accuse you of lying about a team mates sickness.

Very correct, he was far from even.
(and I'm not even native english speaker)
But the extreme response did indicate something else playing behind the scenes.
Never seen anything like it.
"Hopefully" it was just loads of personal frustration from Jasons side, guess we will never know.


I don't know about "far from" ...



It was not a direct accusation but the inference was there.. even after the edit.. and it was reinforced subtly by the third post in this screenshot and while the rant in the screenshot posted by Bliss was ill advised and in poor taste.. given the nature and the intensity of the ongoing campaign to this day against Jason Williams .. personally that has been pretty much non stop for some time across multiple venues... I can understand why he would loose his cool on occasion. I have been tempted myself.. especially here... on many occasions but over the years I have managed to develop a relatively thick skin with things like this but then I haven't had people going on about my alleged lack of ethics and character all over the internet either.. just here.. What some of you call a lack of ethics either directly or by insinuation I call poor judgement and while having poor judgement is not a good trait to foster when dealing with the public in the age of cell cams and screenshots and is best kept in check as much as possible... it is also not the same thing as being a liar.. or a thief.. or a con man... all traits which to greater or lesser degrees are all attributed to Jason Williams sometimes by direct insinuation and other times by subtle innuendo by some of the posters in this very thread .. and others who are not here.

You guys can call it what you want but this place amazes me in that .. here we have a situation where accusations are made and a person comes to defend themselves against those accusations and they are called a liar yet again, and that opinion gets rubber stamped by the masses, mind you totally ignoring the points raised by the person defending themselves, and no matter what that person says to either explain, clarify or even in some cases admit poor decision making.. the response from this cabal is to totally ignore that and maintain the staus quo and totally dismiss that person's statements in unwavering and total support of whoever the prosecuting attorney of the day happens to be. This is the only forum I have ever spent any amount of time on where no matter what you say or do it is never good enough for the regulars who frequent the place.

How do you engage in a conversation under those circumstances?

You don't.


Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
#4127876 - 06/02/15 01:43 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: Bearcat99]  
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dburne Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bearcat99
How do you engage in a conversation under those circumstances?

You don't.


Really? Looks like you are doing pretty good at engaging there...

Jason actually invited discussion over the history of BOS and what has transpired

<<<
So now go ahead ask me any question regarding BOS or ROF history you want and I'll answer it, assuming it doesn't violate any confidentiality agreements I have or personal info. Some of you have a really warped sense of who I am and how I conduct my business affairs. >>>

He did say, ask any question.

I see civil discussion and debate, not people rubber stamping and calling liars... some disagreement in things that were said and done, which is fine I would think. At least on SimHQ it is as long as it remains civil and within the forums rules. I personally tip my hat to Jason for offering to answer any questions here. Nice to see a developer here making an offer like that.

Certainly Jason and Bliss represent two different extremes of what transpired, I suspect most would recognize that. In actuality, what really happened is probably some where in between...




Last edited by dburne; 06/02/15 01:56 PM.

Don

EVGA X-79 Dark MB|I-7 4820K@4.50 GHz|EVGA 1080 Ti FTW3|16GB Corsair Dominator PC2133 Ram|Oculus Rift CV1|Virpil T-50 stick, Warthog throttle|MFG Crosswind Pedals
#4127886 - 06/02/15 02:04 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: JagerNeun]  
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SharpeXB Offline
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It doesn't take a vast conspiracy theory to explain why Cliffs of Dover wasn't sucessful. Judging by similar products on the market today it was underpriced by a factor of about 20x. It was basically packaged as the old IL-2 games were with dozens of planes in it all for $49.00 except it attempted this in an era where making this content is like 16x as difficult. Any other flight sim developer today who wants to remain in business would sell each of the aircraft of the quality than are in Cliffs for $49 apiece, not that price for the entire game. And the game would have been released in stages instead of sitting on it for 7 years. Imagine if RoF was still in development since 2009 and just being releaed for sale today. So Cliffs failed on its own for obvious reasons. Even if the software worked perfectly the game had been in development for the better part of a decade and would have taken probably 15 more years to break even. It's not a surprise at all that the plug was pulled. Hey I put my $49 into the bucket too and I'm always willing to support the efforts of any team that brings is the products we like so much. The fact that modders have been able to make the game sucessful with their own volunteer efforts doesn't mean CoD should serve as some sort of benchmark or standard for this genre. If we want any more of these products made they need to have realistic and achievable goals. CoD is the past and the best that can be done is to learn from the example and go forward. The future is bright for this hobby.

Last edited by SharpeXB; 06/02/15 02:09 PM.

Velocity Micro PC | Asus Z97-A | i7-4790K @4.7GHz | Corsair H80iGT Liquid CPU Cooler | 32GB DDR3-1600MHz Memory | EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC 11GB | 240gb Intel 520 Series SSD | 850 W Corsair PSU | Windows 10 Home | Samsung U28D590D UHD 28" Monitor | Bose Companion 5 Speakers | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5
#4127890 - 06/02/15 02:07 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: JagerNeun]  
Joined: Feb 2008
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777 Studios - Jason Offline
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777 Studios - Jason  Offline
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Southern California or Moscow
To answer this question - No I did not post "details" or someone's credit card info to hurt them. I've been trying to remember what in the heck people are talking about. I've dealt with thousands of customers over many years and I've made thousands of forum posts so a lot of it is a blur frankly. I even asked my wife if she remembered me doing something like this. The one incident I came up with was someone upset over a refund and we couldn't get to the refund fast enough or he didn't have a receipt which is needed for a refund. The customer was upset and blasting us on the forum and I tried to handle the issue in public, which was a mistake, and I believe I tried to confirm his order by asking him if a small bit of info was his so I could do a refund. I remember the customer getting even more upset when I was trying to solve the issue. None of this was done out of spite. Obviously the customer took it differently.

BTW all our credit card transactions are PCI compliant and we store no customer data or receive any such data. If a customer can't help me identify his order without a receipt that has a transaction ID I have little info to go off of.

Bottom line I should have handled whatever the problem was in private. I would never try to harm anyone in that manner.

Jason

#4127897 - 06/02/15 02:22 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: 777 Studios - Jason]  
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Revvin Offline
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Originally Posted By: 777 Studios - Jason
To answer this question - No I did not post "details" or someone's credit card info to hurt them.


That wasn't the question Jason, it was do you categorically deny that you posted a forum members credit card details in an open forum

#4127909 - 06/02/15 02:39 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: SharpeXB]  
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dburne Offline
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Originally Posted By: SharpeXB
It doesn't take a vast conspiracy theory to explain why Cliffs of Dover wasn't sucessful.


Wow, been a while Sharpe - reinforcements?
neaner

Not real sure what Cliffs of Dover has to do with what is being discussed or why you are going there, asking questions regarding BOS...


Don

EVGA X-79 Dark MB|I-7 4820K@4.50 GHz|EVGA 1080 Ti FTW3|16GB Corsair Dominator PC2133 Ram|Oculus Rift CV1|Virpil T-50 stick, Warthog throttle|MFG Crosswind Pedals
#4127911 - 06/02/15 02:44 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: Extreme_One]  
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777 Studios - Jason Offline
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777 Studios - Jason  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Extreme_One
1. Once and for all, did you or didn't you post someone's credit card details? (Note I did not say "for nefarious purposes")


I've answered this in another post.

Quote:
2. Why is Moscow so adamant that they will not improve the single player aspect of the game?
The "devs" as you put it, meaning the Moscow office will never do anything like this.
The only person in the company interested in doing this is me so please don't push for Moscow to be involved.
Moscow office is not interested in this idea. This idea can be done in an outside app as well.


They never said they would not improve it, they just aren't "improving" it in the way a subset of customers want. The word improving is also a subjective term. Not everyone hates our campaign system and usage of it on a per capita basis is above ROFs so what does that mean? The majority of users are "session" gamers and they don't have time for lengthy role-playing sim sessions so a campaign like ours is acceptable it seems. I personally would like to cater to both, so maybe they'll add some details that aren't currently there. I know I have requested that. As far as personal opinions about the Campaign you'd need to ask Loft. I can't speak for him.

And my comments you quoted me on are specifically discussing the idea of working with Pat's code.

Quote:
3. How is it even conceivable that our best hope for a working campaign system, is to minimise the game, and load a 3rd party program, just to achieve standard game functionality? I can't think of another game (except ROF), in any genre, that has to rely on something so archaic and clumsy.


So, ROF has a system that has many role-playing elements and super historical details and still people tell us we made a crappy campaign. Some users like Pat's so we tell them go play that if its better than ours. Pat did a good job so we appreciate his motivation and dedication. It seems to fill a need for some who don't like our system. This is the beauty of the sim community. As far as BOS relying on a third party, Moscow prefers you play our Campaign. They spent a lot of time and money building it. However, I know that doesn't do it for some, so I am trying to adapt PWCG for BOS. My actions are not part and parcel to any plan by 1CGS. Just me a hardcore guy trying to help other hardcore guys.

Quote:
4. Was there any market research done, for you to have come to the conclusion that there was this audience of casual gamers waiting for a game like BOS? Why were the findings of this research so incorrect? Or is it that, as so many suspect, someone in Moscow simply saw Warthunder and the like and presumed they knew how to do something similar?


We do market research all the time and you assume we made a mistake. The vast majority of simmers are not hardcore guys. Never have been. Most just love airplanes and the feeling of flight and dogfighting. Most users play just QMB. We have detailed data on ROF Career system and as detailed and historical as it is it has not buttered our bread to the degree you think it has. When we talked to users the overwhelming thing on their mind is more planes, maps, vehicles and good physics. The idea of BOS was to make it accessible and easy to get into the cockpit and fly. I guess that doesn't make all SimHQ members happy, but like I said. If I can cater to all types of users I would. But we built what we thought most of the market would like with the budget, deadlines and personnel we had. Maybe we got it wrong, but I see it as getting it somewhat right based on the data we had.

Will things change to a large degree? I don't know.

Quote:
5. Why do winter skins need to be unlocked on the winter map? Will summer skins need to be unlocked on the summer map?


I have no idea what the skins for BOM will be or what the unlocks will be. The skins unlocking is meant to be a challenge as are all the unlocks. The goal was to offer a challenge to users.

Jason

#4127912 - 06/02/15 02:45 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: JagerNeun]  
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Airdrop01 Offline
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1. Is it true that there is no 777 Studios and 1C any longer?

2. If so, is 1CGS the combined entity?

3. If not, are 1C and 777 free to pursue other business endeavors separately?

In other words, are 1C's associates necessarily 777's associate?


"For I know the plans that I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11

Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Matthew 5:11

Indeed we call blessed those who have persevered. You have heard of the perseverance of Job, and you have seen the purpose of the Lord, because “the Lord is compassionate and merciful. James 5:11
#4127915 - 06/02/15 02:46 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: JagerNeun]  
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Airdrop01 Offline
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Is there a way to reset the campaign as it exists that can be done server side, as were the unlocks?


"For I know the plans that I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11

Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Matthew 5:11

Indeed we call blessed those who have persevered. You have heard of the perseverance of Job, and you have seen the purpose of the Lord, because “the Lord is compassionate and merciful. James 5:11
#4127916 - 06/02/15 02:47 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: Extreme_One]  
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dburne Offline
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dburne  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Extreme_One

2. Why is Moscow so adamant that they will not improve the single player aspect of the game?
Quote:
The "devs" as you put it, meaning the Moscow office will never do anything like this.

Quote:
The only person in the company interested in doing this is me so please don't push for Moscow to be involved.

Quote:
Moscow office is not interested in this idea. This idea can be done in an outside app as well.




Jason,

As a SP only guy, this would be the one question I would ask as well?

I have not flown, nor have any desire to fly, BOS due to it's very lackluster SP system. Groundhog day does nothing for me. You , with your history, I am sure know what a huge weakness this is in the BOS sim. I am sure it has to be hurting sales, as I am certain there are probably many others out there that feel the same and have done the same as I. I no longer fly BOS, no desire to invest in BOM as it will be the same rinse and repeat of the BOS SP system. But I still try to remain hopeful that someday the developers ( not necessarily third party) would change course a little on the SP aspect of the game. As many core supporters as there are that participate actively on the BOS forums, one would be hard pressed to find a single thread praising the SP system in BOS.

Zak eluded recently in the latest dev diary thread, that this may be being looked at by Moscow. Do you know what he is talking about, and if so, can you comment any on it?


Don

EVGA X-79 Dark MB|I-7 4820K@4.50 GHz|EVGA 1080 Ti FTW3|16GB Corsair Dominator PC2133 Ram|Oculus Rift CV1|Virpil T-50 stick, Warthog throttle|MFG Crosswind Pedals
#4127921 - 06/02/15 02:54 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: Revvin]  
Joined: Feb 2008
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777 Studios - Jason Offline
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777 Studios - Jason  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Revvin
Originally Posted By: 777 Studios - Jason
To answer this question - No I did not post "details" or someone's credit card info to hurt them.


That wasn't the question Jason, it was do you categorically deny that you posted a forum members credit card details in an open forum


I answered the question. I posted something, what exactly I do not remember. Was it some detail of his order yes, was it his full credit card number, no. Was it his address, no. What it his name, no. Was it his CCV number, no.

Was anything done out or spite or to harm anyone, no.

Clearly you are just trying to catch me in a lie like this is some kind of debate class. What do you want from me exactly? To admit I handled something wrong or poorly?

Jason

#4127923 - 06/02/15 02:55 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: dburne]  
Joined: Feb 2008
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777 Studios - Jason Offline
Senior Member
777 Studios - Jason  Offline
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Southern California or Moscow
Originally Posted By: dburne
Originally Posted By: Extreme_One

2. Why is Moscow so adamant that they will not improve the single player aspect of the game?
Quote:
The "devs" as you put it, meaning the Moscow office will never do anything like this.

Quote:
The only person in the company interested in doing this is me so please don't push for Moscow to be involved.

Quote:
Moscow office is not interested in this idea. This idea can be done in an outside app as well.




Jason,

As a SP only guy, this would be the one question I would ask as well?

I have not flown, nor have any desire to fly, BOS due to it's very lackluster SP system. Groundhog day does nothing for me. You , with your history, I am sure know what a huge weakness this is in the BOS sim. I am sure it has to be hurting sales, as I am certain there are probably many others out there that feel the same and have done the same as I. I no longer fly BOS, no desire to invest in BOM as it will be the same rinse and repeat of the BOS SP system. But I still try to remain hopeful that someday the developers ( not necessarily third party) would change course a little on the SP aspect of the game. As many core supporters as there are that participate actively on the BOS forums, one would be hard pressed to find a single thread praising the SP system in BOS.

Zak eluded recently in the latest dev diary thread, that this may be being looked at by Moscow. Do you know what he is talking about, and if so, can you comment any on it?



No I don't know the details or plans. I haven't been briefed yet.

Jason

#4127926 - 06/02/15 02:57 PM Re: In search of answers... [Re: dburne]  
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SharpeXB Offline
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SharpeXB  Offline
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Originally Posted By: dburne

Not real sure what Cliffs of Dover has to do with what is being discussed or why you are going there, asking questions regarding BOS...

It's relevant because the conspiracy theory presented in this thread is how CoD would have been the greatest flight sim ever if only another developer hadn't stabbed them in the back. Cliffs died on its own for obvious reasons. CoD is also a relevant example of why a developer can't just be a wish granter for every desire players might have and still stay in business.

Last edited by SharpeXB; 06/02/15 02:59 PM.

Velocity Micro PC | Asus Z97-A | i7-4790K @4.7GHz | Corsair H80iGT Liquid CPU Cooler | 32GB DDR3-1600MHz Memory | EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC 11GB | 240gb Intel 520 Series SSD | 850 W Corsair PSU | Windows 10 Home | Samsung U28D590D UHD 28" Monitor | Bose Companion 5 Speakers | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5
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RIP Gemini/Apollo astronaut Tom Stafford
by semmern. 03/18/24 02:14 PM
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