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#4121312 - 05/17/15 05:24 PM Re: Kinda wondering here [Re: msalama]  
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i Miss M-8s...


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#4121315 - 05/17/15 05:26 PM Re: Kinda wondering here [Re: msalama]  
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I got one in my pack but may do the rest, not sure yet though.


|My Books | Home Page | http://562.combatace.com/ |
- 'Nearly everyone felt the need to express their views on all wars to me, starting with mine. I found myself thinking, “I ate the crap sandwich, you didn’t, so please don’t tell me how it tastes.”' - CPT Cole, US Army
- "...parade ground soldiers always felt that way (contempt) about killers in uniform." -Counting The Cost, Hammer's Slammers
#4121325 - 05/17/15 06:28 PM Re: Kinda wondering here [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
everyone has to do their own thing, originality and innovation is lost if everyone simply copies off each other.


Is that ED's stand on the concept of a product that is enjoyable in the long term? hahaha

Sure, it's true in some areas, but to apply it to every aspect that is awkward to deal with doesn't really make for an enjoyable experience. I have no problem believing that the dynamic campaign in BMS was extremely complicated to develop. But neither do I have any problems believing that the incredible technological advances since BMS's DC was created over 20 years ago would have vastly reduced those challenges today.

#4121334 - 05/17/15 07:24 PM Re: Kinda wondering here [Re: msalama]  
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nope, that is my opinion, and not of ED.


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#4121346 - 05/17/15 08:40 PM Re: Kinda wondering here [Re: Art_J]  
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Originally Posted By: Art_J


Of course, when more free and critical opinions on DCSW development interest me, I come here (registered recently after being long time lurker), but even that gets old after a while. Same old "CheGuevaras" & their complaints, justified I admit, but what are they going to change? ED, just like 777 and 1C has:
1) a long-time monopoly in their category of sim product;
2) traditional, Russian developer's attitude - "I do things my way and If customer doesn't like it, that's his problem, he's going to come back on his knees anyway, because - see point 1)".

I agree it shouldn't be like that, but it's been since old Il-2 days and isn't going to change anytime soon... unless LM decides to evolve Prepar3D into a combat sim wink Not betting on it though!


there is :

http://www.lockonfiles.com/topic/40494-tacpack-and-superbug-for-p3d-released/

I hardly know anyone that is not into P3D or FSX as well - I am sure many underestimated the pull of FSX-P3D and I have been into it for 8 years now and thanks to LM will be there for the foreseeable future.

There is a belief that the developer of DCSW has a monopoly, not true, flight sim is dominated by FSX-P3D and all the rest try to carve out a space to exist.

#4121361 - 05/17/15 11:06 PM Re: Kinda wondering here [Re: msalama]  
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Agreed, and I wondered last night why VRS doesn't convert their Super Bug for DCS, but that's a decision beyond me.


|My Books | Home Page | http://562.combatace.com/ |
- 'Nearly everyone felt the need to express their views on all wars to me, starting with mine. I found myself thinking, “I ate the crap sandwich, you didn’t, so please don’t tell me how it tastes.”' - CPT Cole, US Army
- "...parade ground soldiers always felt that way (contempt) about killers in uniform." -Counting The Cost, Hammer's Slammers
#4121363 - 05/17/15 11:12 PM Re: Kinda wondering here [Re: msalama]  
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FSX-P3D may be the overwhelming giant of the civil flight sim market, but owns almost none of the combat flight sim market.

TacPack? Not nearly enough functionality or plane set to really make it a viable threat to any air combat sim of any generation. I have been eagerly following TacPack for some time. It still hasn't reached a level where I am willing to try it.

I can just as easily state that I only know a handful of people that are in to FSX/P3D at all. I also know even fewer people into FSX/P3D as much as I have been in to combat flight sims in terms of hardware, home cockpit, etc. So, I can just as easily counter your statement - I am sure many overestimate the pull of FSX-P3D, and I have been into combat flight sims since Digital Integration's Fighter Pilot and Tomahawk for the Timex Sinclair 2068 (ZX Spectrum) back in the mid 80's.

As a dedicated combat flight simmer, DCS very much is a monopoly of both the "modern" air combat study sims and survey sims. With the exception of World War 2, it is also the only active company with air combat study and/or survey sims in other time frames. Name even one other comparable helicopter combat sim. The one hole remaining is WWI era biplanes. Unfortunately, demand for that era is very low and three sims are already catering to that market, so I don't DCS entering that era any time soon.

FSX/P3D and TacPack would have to give me an F-4 Phantom and MiG-21 equal to DCS MiG-21 with a combat environment comparable or superior to DCS and SF2 to really get my attention. I bet Edge and DCS Nevada will be released before TacPack ever reaches a level that gets my time and money.



Last edited by streakeagle; 05/17/15 11:13 PM.

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#4121372 - 05/18/15 12:24 AM Re: Kinda wondering here [Re: EricJ]  
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Originally Posted By: EricJ
Agreed, and I wondered last night why VRS doesn't convert their Super Bug for DCS, but that's a decision beyond me.


the market is much smaller and the effort involved much bigger - besides making them lose their independence and work under the rules of another developer, and then there is the disastrous precedent of the L-39 snafu.

Originally Posted By: streakeagle
FSX-P3D may be the overwhelming giant of the civil flight sim market, but owns almost none of the combat flight sim market.

TacPack? Not nearly enough functionality or plane set to really make it a viable threat to any air combat sim of any generation. I have been eagerly following TacPack for some time. It still hasn't reached a level where I am willing to try it.

I can just as easily state that I only know a handful of people that are in to FSX/P3D at all. I also know even fewer people into FSX/P3D as much as I have been in to combat flight sims in terms of hardware, home cockpit, etc. So, I can just as easily counter your statement - I am sure many overestimate the pull of FSX-P3D, and I have been into combat flight sims since Digital Integration's Fighter Pilot and Tomahawk for the Timex Sinclair 2068 (ZX Spectrum) back in the mid 80's.

As a dedicated combat flight simmer, DCS very much is a monopoly of both the "modern" air combat study sims and survey sims. With the exception of World War 2, it is also the only active company with air combat study and/or survey sims in other time frames. Name even one other comparable helicopter combat sim. The one hole remaining is WWI era biplanes. Unfortunately, demand for that era is very low and three sims are already catering to that market, so I don't DCS entering that era any time soon.

FSX/P3D and TacPack would have to give me an F-4 Phantom and MiG-21 equal to DCS MiG-21 with a combat environment comparable or superior to DCS and SF2 to really get my attention. I bet Edge and DCS Nevada will be released before TacPack ever reaches a level that gets my time and money.




take me as an example - I was a dedicated combat flight simmer since the days of Spectrum Holobyte F-16 and now I am a dedicated FSX-P3D fan, it is not that FSX-P3D have so little of the combat flight sim market, it is how many of us are jumping ship from combat flight sims to civilian flight sims , everybody I know is in P3D or FSX as their premier flight sim - believe me, once you start you never tire of it thanks to the multitude of developers engaged in it.

#4121374 - 05/18/15 12:25 AM Re: Kinda wondering here [Re: msalama]  
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Good point.


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- 'Nearly everyone felt the need to express their views on all wars to me, starting with mine. I found myself thinking, “I ate the crap sandwich, you didn’t, so please don’t tell me how it tastes.”' - CPT Cole, US Army
- "...parade ground soldiers always felt that way (contempt) about killers in uniform." -Counting The Cost, Hammer's Slammers
#4121375 - 05/18/15 12:29 AM Re: Kinda wondering here [Re: msalama]  
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smile

that L-39 thing was an eye opener to many developers ...

#4121395 - 05/18/15 02:24 AM Re: Kinda wondering here [Re: msalama]  
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Yeah I never really got too interested in it to be honest with you, the Strike Fighters 2 version was pretty cool, but the A3 version is pretty fun to fly on occasion.


|My Books | Home Page | http://562.combatace.com/ |
- 'Nearly everyone felt the need to express their views on all wars to me, starting with mine. I found myself thinking, “I ate the crap sandwich, you didn’t, so please don’t tell me how it tastes.”' - CPT Cole, US Army
- "...parade ground soldiers always felt that way (contempt) about killers in uniform." -Counting The Cost, Hammer's Slammers
#4121580 - 05/18/15 03:02 PM Re: Kinda wondering here [Re: msalama]  
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However, I think the one in Arma is only fun because of the world it's in. In other words, take the ones in A3 and put them in DCS and I'd be bored silly in minutes. The focus is on the infantry, and in the planes you support them one way or another. Same thing with the Battlefield games.
DCS is about the planes, and every thing there supports that, even CA. Therefore you need more from the planes when they're the focus.


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#4121593 - 05/18/15 03:25 PM Re: Kinda wondering here [Re: msalama]  
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Strike Fighters has a bigger combat following than FSX/P3D


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#4121655 - 05/18/15 05:22 PM Re: Kinda wondering here [Re: Jedi Master]  
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
However, I think the one in Arma is only fun because of the world it's in. In other words, take the ones in A3 and put them in DCS and I'd be bored silly in minutes. The focus is on the infantry, and in the planes you support them one way or another. Same thing with the Battlefield games.
DCS is about the planes, and every thing there supports that, even CA. Therefore you need more from the planes when they're the focus.


The Jedi Master


True given that they only abstractly (though oukej says they're trying to give it more fidelity) bit it's also not as fun as DCS given the small amount of real terrain you have. Sure there's that huge TKOH map but your average map in A3 or from OFP-A3 isn't very big. So while yeah it's fun to fly, it's also annoying to fly in circles all of the time to get any sense of excitement of flying. Where DCS/SF2 you can fly for an hour in a straight line (or whatever) and spend some quality time flying, as opposed to OFP-A3.


|My Books | Home Page | http://562.combatace.com/ |
- 'Nearly everyone felt the need to express their views on all wars to me, starting with mine. I found myself thinking, “I ate the crap sandwich, you didn’t, so please don’t tell me how it tastes.”' - CPT Cole, US Army
- "...parade ground soldiers always felt that way (contempt) about killers in uniform." -Counting The Cost, Hammer's Slammers
#4121721 - 05/18/15 07:14 PM Re: Kinda wondering here [Re: AggressorBLUE]  
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Originally Posted By: AggressorBLUE


I'll bet they're paid from the same bank account...

They either hired web designers or a contractor to build a new website, as opposed to getting a few more devs to move other projects along.


Sorry for the lateness, but I didn't think I'd have to explain that programming a dynamic campaign and building a webpage are nowhere near in cost.

Wasn't there a post/blog about how the dynamic campaign almost made microprose go broke?

Last edited by Remon; 05/18/15 07:14 PM.
#4121791 - 05/18/15 08:55 PM Re: Kinda wondering here [Re: Remon]  
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Originally Posted By: Remon

Wasn't there a post/blog about how the dynamic campaign almost made microprose go broke?


If I remember correctly…the biggest issue/hurdle was getting the dynamic campaign to work on the minimum specs that were to be listed on the box. Not as much of an issue today I would think.

Many single individuals have created dynamic/like campaigns for sims. (i.e....Pat Wilson ROF…Enlightened Florist COD…etc.)

It doesn't neccesarily have to involve a massive team…just a passionate individual that knows the mission editor well…and how to tie it in with the engine.

IMO smile


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#4121809 - 05/18/15 09:20 PM Re: Kinda wondering here [Re: Force10]  
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Originally Posted By: Force10

......Many single individuals have created dynamic/like campaigns for sims. (i.e....Pat Wilson ROF…Enlightened Florist COD…etc.)

It doesn't neccesarily have to involve a massive team…just a passionate individual that knows the mission editor well…and how to tie it in with the engine.

IMO smile


Indeed, MBots Dynamic Campaign for DCS is a prime example of what can be done with dedication.

Nate

#4121853 - 05/18/15 10:51 PM Re: Kinda wondering here [Re: msalama]  
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VRS developing for DCS would be hindering sales of their own TacPak product.


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#4121894 - 05/18/15 11:42 PM Re: Kinda wondering here [Re: msalama]  
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being a 3rd party developer is not the same as being an FSX-P3D developer, in FSX-P3D world , you work according to your own schedule and you are your own boss.

the developer of DCS outsources work and calls it "3rd party developer" - this means that that the 3rd party developer gets a percentage of the sales in return of developing at his own risk and cost a product for the developer of DCS.

developers like VRS profit much more from doing independent work and I don´t believe that most of the FSX-P3D developers see much profit in DCS.

#4121898 - 05/18/15 11:48 PM Re: Kinda wondering here [Re: msalama]  
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Well either way whenever it comes out on Steam I'd get it.


|My Books | Home Page | http://562.combatace.com/ |
- 'Nearly everyone felt the need to express their views on all wars to me, starting with mine. I found myself thinking, “I ate the crap sandwich, you didn’t, so please don’t tell me how it tastes.”' - CPT Cole, US Army
- "...parade ground soldiers always felt that way (contempt) about killers in uniform." -Counting The Cost, Hammer's Slammers
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