And why does being a small developer somehow make it ok to drop custom graphics settings?

Natural selection 2 was made by a team of 20 something people, from scratch, on a brand new engine and with great graphics and ambitious game design. Yet somehow they have no problem with support tickets.

He, who wants something, finds a way!
He, who doesn't, finds explanations!

You may notice that I have not mentioned anything about graphic settings good or bad, merely clarifying some points made that BoS team are not the same as 'multi million' 1C company and that SMS putting graphic settings on there console versions is simply a legacy of its PC platform Driving sim roots.

FPS is a much more important factor in Driving sims and turning up/down eye candy has little effect of competitiveness.

Many people somehow think that having manual sliders like RoF will enable them to increase visual quality beyond ultra settings, that doesn't happen, and if your system will not run nicely on low/balanced settings no amount of manual sliders will help,

Personally I also would like the option (manual graphics like RoF) but I fail to see how in real (game) terms it is such an actual deal breaker

Cheers Dakpilot

Because, it's a very basic expectation PC consumers have. Possibly the most basic. The ability to tailor your visual fidelity to however you desire is a corner stone of the PC gaming experience. Having preset visual options only is only a step above having none at all.

If you feel fine with paying as much as BOS/BOM is and, in turn, receive a game without that most basic of expectations met that's obviously on you. But don't expect other consumers to be so willing to look past what is literally expected of every single major PC release. This, on top of an anemic campaign, a developer unable to admit fault, and Antarctic levels population on the multiplayer servers translates to a game that will be stale for a very long time. These games will languish in this current status until the price comes down, more content is added, or a combination of the two being the most likely.

Being able to adjust various different graphics options, is one of many reasons I choose to do my gaming on a PC rather than a console, in fact is the reason I build my own PC's.

I want that ability, and I have that ability in every other game I have for my PC.
Their reasoning for not having this option available is just ridiculous.

IIRC, they stated the reasoning was they wanted this game to be seen in a certain way, and those ways are what are in the presets.
Well I, who have invested the dollars in the PC I built, want to play the game in a certain way, and be able to adjust it to my liking , and the way I want is not in the way they want me to do it.

Ok, thanks for clarifying that 1CGS isn't the same as SMS. Now how about the comparisons I gave; and namely why should 1CGS get a free pass when other, smaller studios can provide custom graphics options with no publisher support whatsoever?


As for your statement about many people thinking they can get better graphics with custom then ultra... I can't say I've seen a single person claiming that. Unless you are getting confused with the config editing for LOD bubble. Nor have I seen many, let alone more then a few, asking for custom sliders to try and get the game running better on toasters.

But what many people have been asking for is custom settings so they can run ultra without the ugly ssao. Personally I'd like to run ultra without the HDR that adds oddly colored boom to the game. And there are some people who may not be able to run ultra, or high at a fairly stable 60 fps, but they could run uncheck one or two ultra options and hit that.

Because it grates many people to have someone presume to do their thinking for them. Loft has no idea how I want BoS to look on my PC or what trade-offs I want to make between graphics quality and frame rate...and its none of his business. But he's made it his business (unlike any other PC game developer I know of). What does that tell us about our good friend Loft?

First its graphics control, then comes gun control, and finally mind control. This trend has got to be nipped in the bud!

Common, Really, what are you taking baths in the Kool-Aid over there now? . That is one colection of dumb statements. I have been tweaking Sims for years(as have millions of others) and I have found settings that work wonders on my system that others say doesn't work and cause slowdown on their systems. I like eye candy and I always strive to get the best eye candy I can get while maintaining what I consider a good FPS. I don't want you or anyone else telling me I am doing it wrong because I should only focus on FPS not eye candy. It is the nature of the PC Beast. We all use different configurations of Hardware, and what works for one, doesn't for another. 1C/777 and Loft have given us best case scenarios on the computers they are using. As far as 1C/777 not wanting to field a ton of Tech Help questions, well that is just laziness on their part. If there is one area they could have counted on the Community to help with, it would be Graphics settings. But wait, I forgot, we the consumers are not smart enough to figure that out. Horse Hockey! Most people in PC Gaming either build their own Systems or they take the time to figure out how to use their Hardware to their best advantage. We are not talking about a bunch of Console gamers that just want to push the power button and play. I have never seen one Flight Sim Community that didn't have a Plethora of Hardware Tech Heads that loved to help Members sort out Tech questions, especially Graphics settings tips and Tech. This was just another dumb decision by Loft to streamline the business model and tell the Customer what was best for them, even though not one Pc Gamer would ever say, less options please, how about you just do what you think is best for my Hardware System, even though you(1C/777) have no idea what I have in my System. You BOS Supporters crack me up on how you try to spin everything to look like such a good idea and that 1C/777 is just looking out for the Customers welfare. Please, Severely Limited graphics options was one of the dumbest ideas to come out of the 1C/777 brain trust yet. I have never read one Thread complaining about a Flight Sim with to many Graphics settings yet, and I doubt I ever will. I am not sure what they are paying you over there, but it must be a lot to make dumb statements like that, IMHO. Wake up man, just because you say it on the internet doesn't make it true. Bonjour!

S!Blade<><

New here, first post here but no Simulation newbie enthusiast.

Have been following this thread with interest.

I'm sorry Bearcat, the guys here are right, this is an independent neutral site vs your ideology of pro BoS/BoM website interests trumpeted by Jason and Co that deserve lots of independent challenge.

Those guys paid people off and you can not deny it.

I've seen a vile swear word or ten post by Jason Williams here who has not apologized.

I made a few posts on the BoS site and was chased off for minor criticism

Left feeling humiliated spending my money upfront on this arcade charade of a game.

Thats $99 I'll never spend with those folks again IL2 badge or not.

BoM, not in a snowballs chance in hell.

Also, and this beggars belief, one of the later story's from Jason and co was the reasons they wanted less graphic options was because they could cut down on admin time???

What about all the negative fallout that seems to cost them more admin time now and cause even more negative ill feeling between devs and customers I can ever remember in flight sim history?

You could not make this up.

Terribly sad.

Well, yes he can. Thing is, they more than likely have not paid him off given that he's a moderator. He has to tow a certain line at their forums or risk replacement. In the past, he has voiced concern and criticism of the very same things in the game.

Sure, I disagree with him on multiple things, but he's really the most level headed moderator on those forums. There's no need to misrepresent his position. Don't do the same thing Loft did when he claimed more people liked BoS SP over RoF SP based on how many people were playing each of them. There's plenty of wrongs to be addressed without having to embelish.

I think I see what you say Mig, no over embellishment though, for me this has all got way over complicated flight sim politic wise than it should have and the fault of that lies fairly and squarely at the heels of Producers of this game and Moderators of theirs who choose what they do there out of own free will.

I do not buy all that Moderators have a tough time across the board respect gratuitously bovine excrement ... Respect mantra, is earned not demanded. Agreed too the Mods here are doing a fine natural job on a neutral site, the way it should be ... but OMG, get a mod with an ego on a site like BOS that is in trouble and you have dissent brewing.

They cant keep burying all this under the carpet with locked threads, deleted threads and spin for free from people like Bearcat who do their will for free and put their reputation on the line ... as one guy here once said, they have tied their colours to the mast now, no going back for these guys in this community, they have nothing to lose now

Maybe this BoM is a last fling, skin em, fleece em for all we can exercise before they bolt and run? its happened before in the gaming industry.

Just dont trust these guys, not one bit

Bearcat does not have to tow a line Mig ... unless he's paid, he's doing this because he wants to or believes in this project, lets not fool ourselves please.

Maybe he likes the sense of power a mod can give to the wrong people for the job? I dont know, but I do know he treated me and a bunch of friends who bought early into BOS very unfairly with over heavy moderation and we all thought ... **** it.

Followed the dissent here from the start, but saying your piece and then posting cute cuddly family pics to try reason does not work or should not ... what if I were to post a pic of my Niece in my arms after a long post battle? Its just a stupid emotional blackmail ploy to gain credit.

Stand on your own two feet Bearcat, please.

There is no excuse for taking away graphics customization which was formerly in game.
Period.

I got to agree with this...

I said:



And



Which one of those statements is not true? I never suggested they had an unlimited budget, the point was SMS did not know what the total funds they were going to secure when they started the project. They had to go to crowd funding where as 1CGS a partnership between 777 Studio's and 1C was all agreed and in place before a line of code was written for the project, reading your comments someone could be mistaken for thinking like 1C, Bandai Namco were in place all along. 1C's commitment to the genre dictated the budget, they had the budget known from day one and a development plan in place as to what they could produce with that budget. We had the graphics options but they were taken away and that is a fact.

As far as SMS goes the engine was always cross platform, developers often create an engine they can't use on the consoles but before you get all hung up on SMS other smaller developers like Kunos Simulazioni managed to provide extensive graphics options with a small team and big car and track licenses to pay for or developers like the one LizLemon mentioned also provided graphics options, its a standard expectation of any PC game, they are not scared of their customers not having "no clue". It seems Loft is making a habit out of blaming his customers for his game's shortcomings as it seems as well as graphics we're now too stupid to configure our routers:



Better hurry and enjoy multiplayer while you can, he might decide to remove multiplayer altogether!

This just doesn't apply to Bearcat but all the mods, to listen to some you'd think they were being held hostage and forced to behave in the way they do. Tough job? well then don't do it if you don't want to. There has to be rules on a discussion forum but those rules should be applied to everyone evenly and in the numerous examples given over months here its clear they are not.

I am standing on my own two feet .. and I do believe in this project and its team.. I have said that repeatedly from day one on every forum that I have posted about this sim.





If you say so... but whatever I did.. if I even did it you probably deserved it.. since I have been a mod at IL2 there has only been one instance where I second guessed my self as far as my moderation goes.. and it wasn't with you. Whatever your name is over there... because it isn't Carefree.. but then again you have only been a member here for 3 days with 6 posts and we all know I have a following of sorts.. so you could be anyone.. but if you come over here making accusations and judgements against me at least be man enough to back it up and use whatever handle you used when wherever and/or whenever the incident was instead of talking out of the side of your neck.

As far as me posting a picture with my grandson.. only in a place like this would that even be used as a weapon.. and this bit about a "long standing post battle".. What long standing post battle are you referring to? That picture was on page one... it was my 3rd post in the thread.. the second one with any text and in the context in which it was made there was nothing off topic about it.. I said I don't spend every waking minute watching the boards at 1C and that OI had better things to do and a picture is worth a thousand words.. What long standing post battle are you referring to? "blackmail ploy.. to gain credit.."

Are you kidding me? Here? That is a joke.. At this juncture when I post in this forum believe me .. I know exactly what to expect here from the regulars, the moderator and the "newcomers" as well.. so when I get enough cr@p on the bottom of my shoe I scrape it off and step back for a spell... I have no delusions about receiving any civility from anyone here.. and when it does happen I can certainly appreciate it but I am under no misconceptions about the waters that I am in when I go swimming over here.

Exactly. Had it never been there, and they decided that to implement a full config panel was time they didn't have to spend, so be it. A lame excuse, but at least the "we can't be bothered" makes sense.

To take it away makes no sense in any scenario but one--the devs have disdain for the customer, and think they aren't capable of handling it. Presets make sense for those who don't or don't care to mess around. Pretty much EVERY game has them...but those presets merely make changes to the exposed settings, they're not the sole solution. Only console games have no options at all, and even today some of them now do!

The final nail was that people found out how to edit a config file behind the scenes--like back in the 90s when that was the only way to get certain combinations of things...even the first Il-2 had the best water option limited to ini edits only--and then they "patched" that ability out.





The Jedi Master

I took the photo as a way to reel in all the pointless BS that we discuss here in comparison with what's really important to many of us...our families and loved ones. Just reflect on that, how precious life is....our wives, kids, grandkids, or maybe for some of the younger guys...our moms, dads, and siblings. So much goes on....its silly for us to really let these posts here pull us away from respecting one another in some form or fashion.

I started that thread about posting photos of ourselves for the same reason. To try and put a personal (non-attacking) perspective on this forum, and not this social media macho crap.

Get a grip of yourself, Bearecat.

You said ...



[Text deleted] life is not all about hounding Legit customers on consumer purchases on behalf of [Text deleted].

You Bearcat have ostracised yourself from the wider flight sim community and you know it, you have made it plain you hate it here but [Text deleted] keep coming back to defend the indefensible.

You ask me to give my ID on your forums and my account, what for? More Punishment?

I can guarantee if we were talking face to face with me you would not treat me with such low respect Bearcat ... I paid FULL price $99 for this rubbish and I have a right to speak up and not be bullied by you on your own tarmac.

If there is any scraping of shoes when leaving its with the crowd you represent.

Tell Jason, me and friends are done with the lot of you Forever.

[Text deleted] and and stop hiding behind cute pictures.

I'd never have made a sinister account as you suggest here but for the corruption of BOS/BOM forums its something I've been meaning to to do for a while, stop clutching at straws you were the catalyst, the indefensible that made me stand up to bullys for once in my life.

Had enough of bullys like you Bearcat on your own turf, feels good to respond to you without fear of ban lock or whatever you get off, over there.

You need to get a good bit less personal, and stay away from the mind-reading / assigning motives.

Surely a new gem of internet trolling, complete with delibereate spelling mistakes and all...must be a pisstake

However if this is actually a true plea, then carefree old buddy, I suggest you stay away from the internet and go and get some counselling about dealing with the bullies who have obviously taken a bad toll on you

Cheers Dakpilot