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#4092374 - 03/15/15 12:07 PM New civil flight sim on the horizon  
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Kendo Nagasaki Offline
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Just saw this post on Reddit & thought it may be of interest here. Normally I would take these announcements with a pinch of salt, but those are some dev studio names on these peoples resume.

---

Hi everyone! I'm the lead developer and CEO over at darkForge Games. We're a team comprised of members from game studios such as Sony, Blizzard and Microsoft. We've been working on a fantasy game on Steam for the past 5 years and are about to finish it up. We are starting pre-production on our next project and I wanted to get your opinions.

Let me introduce to you FS World (Working Title). Our plan is to provide a strong alternative to FSX, Prepar3D and X-Plane. These titles are great, but come with many obstacles such as the requirement to spend hundreds or thousands on add-ons just to make them look somewhat decent; 32-Bit limitations (FSX), and extremely dated graphics even with add-ons.

We plan to make FS World a flight sim with modern graphics, 64-bit architecture, and all the things a modern title would include such as:

A focus on immersion - graphics are just as important as realism.
Realistic flight models.
Fully-realized photoreal scenery.
FSDreamTeam/FlyTampa quality airports.
PMDG quality airplane visuals/sounds/management.
Accessibility to new pilots but a huge emphasis on realism.
Continuous updates to the core product that grows with the community.
Oculus support.

I believe a flight sim in 2015 should include these things out of the box and should not demand hours of your time to find and download dozens of add-ons and cost thousands of your dollars. Here's where you come in! As we did with our last game, community involvement was hugely important at every stage of development. You are our target audience so I want you ask you the following things:

1) Firstly does this product interest you? Are you happy with the state FSX/P3D/X-Plane or do you long for a more modern version of FS?

2) If so, what do you want out of it? A focus on commercial aviation? Smaller prop planes? Small super-detailed regions or less detailed world-wide flight?

3) What features would be most important to you? Working ATC? Airports? GSX style interaction? Vatsim support?
Please leave your answers in the comments! Since we are catering this to a niche audience we will only make the game if you as a community show enough interest in it. Thanks very much for your time and I hope to see you in the virtual sky!
Here's some VERY early screenshots to give you an idea what we're shooting for (made with world comp):

http://imgur.com/pxJUii7 [1]
http://imgur.com/9MDh9Ox [2]
http://imgur.com/QfRbvN9 [3]
http://imgur.com/5eQTZYW [4]

TL;DR: We are a game company and we plan to make a new modern flight sim to compete with FSX and X-Plane. Are you interested in this?

Link - http://www.reddit.com/r/flightsim/comments/2z2g1w/new_flight_sim_fs_world_are_you_interested/

Last edited by Kendo Nagasaki; 03/15/15 12:09 PM.
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4092390 - 03/15/15 01:25 PM Re: New civil flight sim on the horizon [Re: Kendo Nagasaki]  
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mikew Offline
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If they're asking those questions now, then I guess this is somewhat further than the horizon away.

It got me thinking about civ flight sims though, which for me at least peaked with FS2000 in terms of enjoyment.
I like to set up frivolous scenarios though, like Heathrow to London City in the 737 while flying through Tower Bridge on the way. Or maybe the same thing with the Cessna with gale force winds.

While I've bought the entire MSFS series over the years and Xplane 10, it was FS2000 that best connected with my mind in terms of immersion.
I'm probably the only one that feels this way, but more detailed graphics does not equal more realistic.

#4092391 - 03/15/15 01:32 PM Re: New civil flight sim on the horizon [Re: Kendo Nagasaki]  
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Stormtrooper Offline
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PMDG quality aircraft would cover realistic. Their announcement does seem to emphasis detail though.

#4092392 - 03/15/15 01:35 PM Re: New civil flight sim on the horizon [Re: Kendo Nagasaki]  
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Rick.50cal Offline
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Uh... sure.


Yep, Sounds awesome, when its been out for a month or two, I'll buy it if the reviews are good.

But... to be BETTER in every aspect than FSX, Prepar3d and Xplane?!?

With aircraft better than PMDG?!

That's a VERY tall claim from just a few screenshits that don't impress me at all. Go make a few impressive addons using those skills, make an airport better than flytampa, and a jet better than PMDG before claiming you can do better than them and better than 3 decades of Microsoft development.

If they can deliver, I'll buy. But that is a very tall claim.


POLITICS, WAR, ECONOMY, CONTROVERSY! and other heated discussions and debates in the PWEC sub-forum at the bottom of this forum main page. See you there!
#4092399 - 03/15/15 02:01 PM Re: New civil flight sim on the horizon [Re: Stormtrooper]  
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mikew Offline
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Originally Posted By: Stormtrooper
PMDG quality aircraft would cover realistic. Their announcement does seem to emphasis detail though.
Thanks, but I guess I should have written 'feels realistic' rather than 'realistic' though.
I don't really care about the intricacies of each aircraft, only that a 737 is going to be a heavier lump than a Cessna 172 etc.

In FS2000, I could never the get the hang of the Concorde and would invariably run out of fuel on my way from Heathrow to JFK. In trying to divert, I'd try to dead reckon my way to an alternate airport using my atlas but would usually end up crashing.
That's just an example, but my mind was in a state where I'd be genuinely upset about the almost inevitable crash.
For me, the long load times of the latest generation of sims and the attempt to visualize everything in greater detail produces an 'Uncanny Valley' effect which somehow curtails my imagination, and makes these games less enjoyable than they were before.

This is all very subjective though... smile

#4092429 - 03/15/15 04:23 PM Re: New civil flight sim on the horizon [Re: Kendo Nagasaki]  
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cichlidfan Offline
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I don't think they fully comprehend the scope of such a project.

Last edited by cichlidfan; 03/15/15 04:30 PM.

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#4092434 - 03/15/15 04:31 PM Re: New civil flight sim on the horizon [Re: Kendo Nagasaki]  
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Sethos88 Offline
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They already responded to the scope claim in the comments on Reddit.

#4092470 - 03/15/15 06:45 PM Re: New civil flight sim on the horizon [Re: Kendo Nagasaki]  
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Charlie_SB Offline
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If they'd provide some kind of game elements I would consider it. Flight school with grading, career mode, some kind of campaign mode (fly relief effort, search and rescue, police campaign, fire fighting, smuggling or anti smuggling missions or just airline work with some kind of progress). I really like the discovery part of ETR2 and progressing through better and better equipment. I cannot see why that wouldn't work for something a lot more fun and challenging than driving a truck.

By reading the initial text I don't think this is what they are aiming for though. My guess is that an attempt at recreating FSX without trying to lure some young blood (gamers) into the genre is doomed. They seem to confuse graphics with immersion and even asks a question whether working ATC is a wanted feature?

I applaud their attempt and wish them all the best. If they can get a smooth learning curve, in game instructions, scalable help systems combined with a good flight sim with gaming elements I'm sure there is a void to fill.

-C-

#4092534 - 03/15/15 10:37 PM Re: New civil flight sim on the horizon [Re: Kendo Nagasaki]  
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Para_Bellum Offline
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I believe it when I see it...


"...late afternoon the Air Tasking Order came in [and] we found the A-10 part and we said, "We are going where!? We are doing what!?"

Capt. Todd Sheehy, Hog pilot, on receiving orders during Operation Desert Storm

#4092557 - 03/16/15 12:05 AM Re: New civil flight sim on the horizon [Re: Kendo Nagasaki]  
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Jayhawk Offline
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If they can pull it off....more power to them.

Just notify me once it's done... smile


Why men throw their lives away attacking an armed Witcher... I'll never know. Something wrong with my face?
#4092561 - 03/16/15 12:32 AM Re: New civil flight sim on the horizon [Re: Kendo Nagasaki]  
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I agree with all of the above. I have a $100 dollar bill that's burning a hole in my pocket for the above mentioned product. Bring it forth! smile

#4092564 - 03/16/15 12:45 AM Re: New civil flight sim on the horizon [Re: Kendo Nagasaki]  
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More power to them for sure. But I am really happy with x-plane. It looks great out of the box and looks even better with HD Mesh 3 (which is not included out of the box only because it is far too large a file size). I have never bought scenery. I did buy Nils' Bk117 and Greg's F-104. Both were more than worth the $20 and I doubt either recouped the 100's of hours of dev time they spent making their respective machines great. Not dissing this new project. But the implication is that x-plane is to be lumped together with FSX. X-plane is in constant development with updates every few months. FSX was tossed in the bin years ago.

#4092589 - 03/16/15 03:17 AM Re: New civil flight sim on the horizon [Re: Kendo Nagasaki]  
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Rudel Offline
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Those screenshots look like they are from Outerra. A very promising global terrain system worth building upon.

http://www.outerra.com/

#4092598 - 03/16/15 03:50 AM Re: New civil flight sim on the horizon [Re: Kendo Nagasaki]  
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PV1 Offline
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Hmm. DarkForge crowdfunded "Nekro" via Kickstarter,
and it appears the site darkforgegames.com is expired.
They just have a facebook page for the game,
https://www.facebook.com/nekro.darkforgegames
and apparently another for the company which can
only be seen if you are part of the facebook
empire.

This doesn't look like the sort of pockets deep enough
for the project they envisage. Maybe they all have day jobs...

#4092963 - 03/16/15 11:41 PM Re: New civil flight sim on the horizon [Re: Kendo Nagasaki]  
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Rick.50cal Offline
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Even if they had deep pockets... asking whether people want ATC... makes me wonder just what the point is.

I mean, I support them trying, any kind of sim being made (mostly) gets my thumbs up. But I'm unclear just what they think will be their big selling point, considering the MASSIVE headstart its competition. I mean Xplane has over 10 years, prepar3d is already a few years old, fsx is nearly 10. Fs2004 is ancient ago, and Microsoft had two decades experience and accumulated data and resources to draw upon...

And the terrain, aircraft addons... sorry but you don't just create all of that from nothing, while making a complete sim from the ground up. Its like a baby just learning to walk stating "I'm gonna climb Everest next year!". I mean Lockheed really wanted to sell a very similar product, and even they, one of the largest most experienced aerospace defense giants, with massively deep pockets... licensed the core engine from Microsoft's flightsim team. I think that speaks volumes about the mountain range they are about to climb.


That said, if they CAN make it, and get real close to their goals, I'll give it a shot. But honestly, I think they'd do better to make addons for Xplane FSX FS2004 and Prepar3d: much more achievable end product, and a ready made customer base with a limitless hunger for quality addons.


POLITICS, WAR, ECONOMY, CONTROVERSY! and other heated discussions and debates in the PWEC sub-forum at the bottom of this forum main page. See you there!
#4093045 - 03/17/15 09:33 AM Re: New civil flight sim on the horizon [Re: Rick.50cal]  
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Originally Posted By: Rick.50cal

Even if they had deep pockets... asking whether people want ATC... makes me wonder just what the point is.

I mean, I support them trying, any kind of sim being made (mostly) gets my thumbs up. But I'm unclear just what they think will be their big selling point, considering the MASSIVE headstart its competition. I mean Xplane has over 10 years, prepar3d is already a few years old, fsx is nearly 10. Fs2004 is ancient ago, and Microsoft had two decades experience and accumulated data and resources to draw upon...

And the terrain, aircraft addons... sorry but you don't just create all of that from nothing, while making a complete sim from the ground up. Its like a baby just learning to walk stating "I'm gonna climb Everest next year!". I mean Lockheed really wanted to sell a very similar product, and even they, one of the largest most experienced aerospace defense giants, with massively deep pockets... licensed the core engine from Microsoft's flightsim team. I think that speaks volumes about the mountain range they are about to climb.


That said, if they CAN make it, and get real close to their goals, I'll give it a shot. But honestly, I think they'd do better to make addons for Xplane FSX FS2004 and Prepar3d: much more achievable end product, and a ready made customer base with a limitless hunger for quality addons.




Just because Lockheed has deep pockets, does not necessarily mean the company allocated a large budget to the project. Especially in large companies, they are all on about "synergies". wink Why spend a lot of resources on reinventing the wheel when FSX code is sufficient for the product they envisioned? Their core competence is still building and selling aircraft, not creating commercial flight simulators.

If I understood their reddit post correctly, they are still in the process of brainstorming, respectively making a "wish list". According to the guy who wrote the post, their process apparently is to initially put every conceivable thing on the table, and gradually cut or postpone features as they go along. Also, they seem to at least inintially want to hear what the community would like to see, hence their questions about things like "ATC". That's not necessarily a bad approach, or an omen for certain failure.

If they should fail, it's most likely due to other reasons, like their budget being too tight, or lacking expertise in creating flightsims , or they're running out of steam (teammembers leaving, potential "day jobs" interfering...).


In any case, either they pull it off, or they don't. If they do, fine, we'll get a new sim. And if they fail, we probably won't even notice.

Last edited by Jayhawk; 03/17/15 09:40 AM.

Why men throw their lives away attacking an armed Witcher... I'll never know. Something wrong with my face?
#4239961 - 03/15/16 05:59 AM Re: New civil flight sim on the horizon [Re: Kendo Nagasaki]  
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Almost been a year. Did this ever end up making any progress?


Wheels


Cheers wave
Wheelsup_cavu

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#4239983 - 03/15/16 09:02 AM Re: New civil flight sim on the horizon [Re: Kendo Nagasaki]  
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I still have my copy of Microsoft Flight Simulator for the original Apple McIntosh and I still have my Apple McIntosh which still works.

I have never been able to finish that game.

There was no joystick back then, just the KB and mouse. The instructions that came with the game were very sparse and vague.

I could take off but couldn't land at the destination airport.

#4239986 - 03/15/16 09:24 AM Re: New civil flight sim on the horizon [Re: Kendo Nagasaki]  
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Good question wheels. And I'm going to take this opportunity to hijack your thread revival and shout out the free x737 project for X-Plane. The developers have been soliciting my (and many other's) input from time to time. And so I get early access to most updates. The latest has the prospective from the left seat nailed. I mention this because the add-on is both authentic and free. And that addresses some of the issues that the "new sim" that inspired this thread wishes to address. Yes, x-plane, fsx and p3d are not great out of the box. But they can all be made great for free with some effort.

#4239988 - 03/15/16 09:34 AM Re: New civil flight sim on the horizon [Re: Kendo Nagasaki]  
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Ice Cold in Alex or Eating in ...
Quote:

FSDreamTeam/FlyTampa quality airports.

Not happening on a global scale. And this is a problem, because no one wants FS: Alaska, or FS: England.


That's me out


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