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#4081628 - 02/21/15 02:07 AM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. * [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
Force10, Change the TITLE to "Development Chit Chat"


Why bother, where will we gripe this time next year about waiting for the DSC Bug? attack pilot biggrin


"Learning to fly the Falcon is just your ticket to the dance" - Pete 'Boomer' Bonanni.
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4081643 - 02/21/15 02:50 AM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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So obviously I didn't miss much... Off to watch a movie biggrin


|My Books | Home Page | http://562.combatace.com/ |
- 'Nearly everyone felt the need to express their views on all wars to me, starting with mine. I found myself thinking, I ate the crap sandwich, you didnt, so please dont tell me how it tastes.' - CPT Cole, US Army
- "...parade ground soldiers always felt that way (contempt) about killers in uniform." -Counting The Cost, Hammer's Slammers
#4081764 - 02/21/15 03:43 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: EricJ]  
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Originally Posted By: EricJ
So obviously I didn't miss much... Off to watch a movie biggrin


Better yet....

Write your own script, pitch it, then cast for it, then produce it with funding obtained from working a minimum wage job, and then you might, just might........ get some community love from ED with an announcement saying, they are still working on it.


Fighterops...

The only TRUE Stealth crowd funded game.

Devs said there was stuff there, but you just couldn't see it.
#4081887 - 02/21/15 09:23 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: bogusheadbox]  
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Originally Posted By: bogusheadbox
Better yet....

Write your own script, pitch it, then cast for it, then produce it with funding obtained from working a minimum wage job, and then you might, just might........ get some community love from ED with an announcement saying, they are still working on it.


Sorry, I have missed your point in the midst of the hyperbole...


"Learning to fly the Falcon is just your ticket to the dance" - Pete 'Boomer' Bonanni.
#4081988 - 02/22/15 01:15 AM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: bogusheadbox]  
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EricJ Offline
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Originally Posted By: bogusheadbox
Originally Posted By: EricJ
So obviously I didn't miss much... Off to watch a movie biggrin


Better yet....

Write your own script, pitch it, then cast for it, then produce it with funding obtained from working a minimum wage job, and then you might, just might........ get some community love from ED with an announcement saying, they are still working on it.


Lol true, but no, not with them, they'll just do their own thing man, I'll check in again sometime though biggrin


|My Books | Home Page | http://562.combatace.com/ |
- 'Nearly everyone felt the need to express their views on all wars to me, starting with mine. I found myself thinking, I ate the crap sandwich, you didnt, so please dont tell me how it tastes.' - CPT Cole, US Army
- "...parade ground soldiers always felt that way (contempt) about killers in uniform." -Counting The Cost, Hammer's Slammers
#4082203 - 02/22/15 04:44 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: AggressorBLUE]  
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Originally Posted By: AggressorBLUE
Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
Originally Posted By: near_blind
Originally Posted By: scrim
Yeah, that's everything but true. Razbam claimed to be making almost half a dozen modern advanced jets for years, and now it's just down to a single Mirage. Even if they'd actually have come through on all those jets they claimed for so long, they'd still have dozens and dozens more in FSX. Really, they've got so many there that they've gone for different versions of planes. Fancy we'll be seeing that in DCS this decade even?


And who can blame them? I'd imagine FSX is far more profitable both in terms of size of the consumer pool and in terms of profit in relation to investment. It's not like we as a community are helping the matter with the constant witch hunt atmosphere.

At least they didn't turn tail and run like IRIS.


And that's why I want FSX gone. As long as it exists, there's a "comfortable" place for them to go to and little incentive to do anything for DCS.



The Jedi Master


Or, you know, ED could make their own platform more "comfortable" to build for...

But sure, it's clearly FSX' fault that ED's behind on content, and devs are leaving the DCS pipe line. rolleyes



Or, you know, developers could stop selling themselves as software development/aeronautics geniuses and promise the world before delivering anything.

Getting tired of this argument getting re-hashed a lot.
DCS development is what you make of it.

Software development is difficult. Flight Simulation development to the fidelity that DCS requires (ESPECIALLY the AFM) is even more so. Successfully releasing an DCS fidelity aircraft for international, small outfits will continue to be very challenging. How many teams build aircraft to the fidelity of PMDG for FSX? Not many. (that's the closest analogy I can find)

The rumours that "DCS is hard to develop for" are grossly exaggerated and the learning curve can probably be likened to any other industry-proven engine. (e.g. UE4 or FSX). We frequently put in 10-12 hours a day; and it's not because of the engine, it's because Flight Simulation (and Software) development is very hard work.

Last edited by Cobra847; 02/22/15 04:54 PM.

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Heatblur Simulations
#4082204 - 02/22/15 04:48 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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Honestly, despite my earlier misgivings on this topic, if you say so, I've gotta reconsider. The word from a 3rd party dev who's got a released and well maintained product on his resume does weigh heavily.

#4082207 - 02/22/15 05:04 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: scrim]  
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Originally Posted By: scrim
Honestly, despite my earlier misgivings on this topic, if you say so, I've gotta reconsider. The word from a 3rd party dev who's got a released and well maintained product on his resume does weigh heavily.


It's not often I jump into discussions anymore; but sometimes it's frustrating to see ED blamed for something that you see in every facet of game development elsewhere.

Developers who have maintained and established deep familiarity with a particular engine/ecosystem/workflow are very reluctant to switch to anything else, regardless of superiority (be it user base, ease of use or power). E.g. if you've shipped 3 titles on Unity, it'll be hard to convince you to toss it to the side and adopt Unreal Engine 4.

The FSX/DCS split developer situation is really no different. That said, DCS does require far more expertise, particularly in the area of AFM development. Lack of expertise or gaps in knowledge are massive pitfalls -- and not something easily remedied.

Last edited by Cobra847; 02/22/15 05:10 PM.

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Heatblur Simulations
#4082271 - 02/22/15 08:03 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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THANNNNNKKKKK YOOOUUUUUU


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#4082275 - 02/22/15 08:14 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
THANNNNNKKKKK YOOOUUUUUU


The issue and complaint is lack of developer info and updates.


"Learning to fly the Falcon is just your ticket to the dance" - Pete 'Boomer' Bonanni.
#4082804 - 02/23/15 09:15 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: Boomer]  
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Originally Posted By: Helo_Head

The issue and complaint is lack of developer info and updates.


THANNNNNNKKKKKK YOOOUUUUUUUU


Fighterops...

The only TRUE Stealth crowd funded game.

Devs said there was stuff there, but you just couldn't see it.
#4082815 - 02/23/15 09:30 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: Boomer]  
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Originally Posted By: Helo_Head
Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
THANNNNNKKKKK YOOOUUUUUU


The issue and complaint is lack of relatively reliable developer info and updates.


FTFY. An update showing us a ton of stuff that may be pulled before release tomorrow, or whose release may be delayed tomorrow, is not much better than nothing at all.

It's basically trust. When we can't trust what is being said, that's bad. We WANT to trust what is being said. We gain nothing by having no trust. Don't wait several months to say anything, then say a ton of stuff, then take back half of it plus push back when you said we were going to get it.

Either A) give us everything all the time with the understanding that until release is imminent we're not going to get a release date or even confirmation it will be released, like getting insight into the development process or B) only give us the stuff that has a high degree of confidence for implementation and release.
Instead we've got this bizarre mishmash of A and B in the same update on a schedule that teeters between one and the other.

An example of A would be shots or videos or even just a description of some feature that was present in alpha form that's being considered for release but as of yet is not getting any significant attention (as it will judge user reaction and let them know if it's something they should spend time on or not). An example of B would be telling us what's in an update as it gets pushed out and that's it. smile



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4082826 - 02/23/15 09:42 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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#4083000 - 02/24/15 09:31 AM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: GrayGhost]  
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Originally Posted By: GrayGhost


What the hell does that article have to do with the fact that ED thinks its a good practice not to tell us (their customers) almost no info at all.

We are not moaning about features, lack of features, the use of features, polygons yadda yadda yadda ad nauseum....


We are moaning about the fact that ED don't want to keep us in the loop about what we the consumer are waiting to spend our money on or have already spent out money on.

Maybe I come from a different planet, but customers are the end product, that is why they are making the game... Not to play it themselves, but to sell it to us for a profit.

Is it to hard to ask for a little info.

It doesn't take much effort. E.g. We worked on x last month, integrating X broke Y, causing a bit of a delay, but we are trying to get the best features in for your enjoyment.

Is that so freaking hard ?

Its all about respect for the customer and ED (IMO) has very little of that purely because they have no competitor.

OHHHHH how I wish there was a competitor......


Last edited by bogusheadbox; 02/24/15 09:32 AM.

Fighterops...

The only TRUE Stealth crowd funded game.

Devs said there was stuff there, but you just couldn't see it.
#4083021 - 02/24/15 10:45 AM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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Facts are ED tells us far less than other producers of similar size, and they and their official partners over at BST leave Betas unfinished for incredibly long periods of time. People aren't complaining that they don't do things fast, they're complaining that compared to other developers (who are subjected to the same circumstances), they perform less than admirably. Even having a bimonthly newsletter seems to be an achievement to them...

#4083052 - 02/24/15 11:40 AM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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#4083069 - 02/24/15 12:08 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: bogusheadbox]  
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Originally Posted By: bogusheadbox
.. Is that so freaking hard ? ..

Well, Wags did try to run weekly updates for a while but, IMO, the forum crowd started all kind of weird F5 threads and usesless behaviour so he stopped.

And in all honesty, why are we supposed to know what they work on or how far they've progressed?
Personally all I'm interested in is what the product can do the very same day it's released - until then I'd rather not know at all.

#4083075 - 02/24/15 12:23 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: GrayGhost]  
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Very interesting/amusing read.
smile
Remember my first steps modding a simple weapon (Ak5/FNC) in ArmA1, nothing short of an eye-opener.
When the model is done, you're not even half way through (and a weapon has very very few animations and the textures are pretty few and not too many layers in for arma you can inherit alot config wise (coding)).

Later on (ArmA2) it actually became annoying to read threads where people list pretty much half a national army inventory as a wishlist (I actually read those lists as "look how much I know about army stuff, I'm awesome" nowadays smile ).

#4083214 - 02/24/15 03:58 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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Why your not seeing release dates?

Look at GTA5 for the PC, release date has been pushed back for the 5th time.


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#4083233 - 02/24/15 04:34 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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Completely ignoring the fact that most devs do manage to both give out release dates well in advance, and live up to them.

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