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#4079684 - 02/16/15 11:33 PM Save ammo options  
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Murphy Offline
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I own a Colt AR-15, which fires 5.56mm ammo.
I've discovered there is a petition to prevent certain types of ammo, from being listed as restricted.
If you wish your ammo to be regulated, simply do nothing.
Firearms, without bullets, are clubs.
If you wish to sign the petition, it's here;

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/stop-batfe-banning-xm855-ammunition/XrvVh1cj

Keep the sport alive, shooters. wink


"Murphy's Law"
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#4079688 - 02/16/15 11:50 PM Re: Save ammo options [Re: Murphy]  
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isnt XM855 steel penetration ammo designed to punch through light steel stuff (like russian helmets)? why the heck would you need that at a range or shooting game?


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#4079691 - 02/17/15 12:00 AM Re: Save ammo options [Re: Murphy]  
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So my colt .45 ammo, and my .22 ammo doesn't disappear also.

I really don't want to get into the politics of this, but as a retired police officer, 25 years in Detroit, I can tell you, a bullet proof vest is made for hand guns, it isn't going to help 'that' much, if a sniper wants you dead. And my 5.56mm rifle would make a head shot easy. Most cops are killed with handguns, up close. Like the one Plainsman is using. .32 cal. and .38 cal. handguns kill more cops than any 5.56mm rifle ever has.

'None' have been killed with a XM855 bullet.

So it's just the beginning of making weapons, clubs.

If you disagree, just let it be, and don't sign the petition.
I'm just looking down a long, long road. wink
Thinking about the grandsons.


"Murphy's Law"
#4079692 - 02/17/15 12:00 AM Re: Save ammo options [Re: Meatsheild]  
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Originally Posted By: Meatsheild
isnt XM855 steel penetration ammo designed to punch through light steel stuff (like russian helmets)? why the heck would you need that at a range or shooting game?


There are other uses for ammunition than shooting games or shooting at a range.

#4079696 - 02/17/15 12:06 AM Re: Save ammo options [Re: Murphy]  
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Well, M855 is widely used to hunt feral pigs.

The steel core also makes the rounds less expensive to produce, so it is more economical for target shooting as well.


You're only young once, but you can be immature forever.
#4079697 - 02/17/15 12:09 AM Re: Save ammo options [Re: Meatsheild]  
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Originally Posted By: Meatsheild
isnt XM855 steel penetration ammo designed to punch through light steel stuff (like russian helmets)? why the heck would you need that at a range or shooting game?


Considering how we recently literally had zero .223 and 5.56 ammunition on shelves for about two years straight when it happens again I'll take anything I can get be it tracer, green tips, or Russian steel case garbage ammo.

For someone to die here from a rifle shot is incredibly rare. If your chances of getting shot with a pistol are about the same as winning the lottery the day you get hit by lightning, then getting hurt from a rifle of any type is about the same plus space midgets attacking your shins while the above happens.

Also, America biggrin be it a Liberator pistol or a Serbu .50 cal I'm damn glad we have access to it.


Scully: Victim died of multiple stab wounds.
Mulder: *throws her a file* Ever heard of the knife alien?
#4079698 - 02/17/15 12:11 AM Re: Save ammo options [Re: Murphy]  
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Feral pigs aren't ones to screw around, they'll take 12 gauge slugs and keep fighting.

About the only downside I can think of to steel core is when someone unknowingly shoots range steel and ruins it.


Scully: Victim died of multiple stab wounds.
Mulder: *throws her a file* Ever heard of the knife alien?
#4079718 - 02/17/15 12:41 AM Re: Save ammo options [Re: Murphy]  
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Signed, sure glad I bought some a year ago. Found a site with Lake City 62gr green tips for
cheap in bulk buying.


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#4079725 - 02/17/15 12:57 AM Re: Save ammo options [Re: Murphy]  
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Signed. I don't have anything in those calibers, but agree that losing these ifs just a start.


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#4079728 - 02/17/15 12:58 AM Re: Save ammo options [Re: Murphy]  
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Dudes, pig hunting is freaking awesome fun. Seriously.


"For I know the plans that I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11

Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Matthew 5:11

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#4079731 - 02/17/15 01:04 AM Re: Save ammo options [Re: Murphy]  
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Plus, M855 isn't going to do a thing against modern body armor, and against stuff rated to stop pistol rounds (like most cops wear every day) you don't need steel core ammo. Nobody is going out and buying this stuff with the express intent of defeating body armor. It's simply BATFE overstepping its authority again.


Phil

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#4079762 - 02/17/15 02:39 AM Re: Save ammo options [Re: Murphy]  
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Is the petition open for non-US citizens ?

I'm in the midst of getting my gun licence and if I do get it, most of the equipment, including ammo, is sourced Stateside.

Whatever affects the US shooting community affects me down the line.

#4079772 - 02/17/15 03:07 AM Re: Save ammo options [Re: Harry-the-Ruskie]  
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Originally Posted By: Harry-the-Ruskie
Is the petition open for non-US citizens ?

I'm in the midst of getting my gun licence and if I do get it, most of the equipment, including ammo, is sourced Stateside.

Whatever affects the US shooting community affects me down the line.


Sad to say Harry....they probably check your Email, and it's for U.S. citizens only, as it's our constitution they are attempting to change, or preserve. But I'm not positive that they could actually do that, it's just an assumption on my part.
We can all only hope things remain they way they are, and the U.S. Constitution prevails, that we may ALL enjoy the freedoms, that 'man' was meant to have....of course...IMHO.


"Murphy's Law"
#4079777 - 02/17/15 03:16 AM Re: Save ammo options [Re: NH2112]  
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Murphy Offline
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Originally Posted By: NH2112
Plus, M855 isn't going to do a thing against modern body armor, and against stuff rated to stop pistol rounds (like most cops wear every day) you don't need steel core ammo. Nobody is going out and buying this stuff with the express intent of defeating body armor. It's simply BATFE overstepping its authority again.


Not a well known fact, but it was when I was issued my vest. They told us it was not rated for anything above a .40 cal. pistol round. A .357 would breeze through it. Along with most any rifle round.
But I'm not sure how far modern day equipment has come. I would assume you need the extra 'plates' they wore, when doing drug raids, which is a totally different vest, and you couldn't wear that all day long and function.

I do believe you are correct, and I highly doubt it's the ATF that is behind this. I know several, and they do what they're told to do, the boots on the ground, right up to the head of this district. It's much higher up.
But that discussion belongs in the PWEC, not here. I'd just like to defend the guys I know who went on to a different career. I know them. They don't have this attitude, they are aware of right, and wrong. And deserve a spokesman, here. Hence my defense of them, not a political, view.





"Murphy's Law"
#4079790 - 02/17/15 03:34 AM Re: Save ammo options [Re: Murphy]  
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Depends on the armor but patrol police are generally issued very light armor. Considering you've got a better chance of being cut than shot and you have to wear it for just about half of your entire life it certainly does the job it needs to.

Obviously guys going on raids would wear something beefier, but I'd imagine turnover would skyrocket if they had to lug SAPI plates around 24/7 for 15 years.


Scully: Victim died of multiple stab wounds.
Mulder: *throws her a file* Ever heard of the knife alien?
#4079796 - 02/17/15 03:49 AM Re: Save ammo options [Re: Murphy]  
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M855 is not armor piercing ammo to start with. Never has been classified that way before. It is designed to go threw a stupid stamped sheet steel old school Soviet helemt at whatever range. Is it 300 meters? Heck, i do not remember. But that most certainly does not make it AP ammo. Its sheet steel! Sheet steel is not armor plate. Anything will go threw it at various ranges. Its more an indicator that 5.56 sucks at range. Cause .308 or 30-06 do not have that problem with regular ball ammo. 5.56 like M193 dont either, at close rifle ranges. The real thing going on here to try and prevent military surplus being sold on the civie market. Likely drive up prices a tad on .223 and 5.56.

And modern armored plates used in body armor (the stupid heavy things they are), m855 will not penetrate that either. Neither will real AP 5.56. Or for that mater armor piercing 7.62 NATO. Well, unless enough hits to the plates. Then they sort of fall apart.

Pretty much all rifle rounds will go straight threw soft kevlar armor. That is only intended to stop pistols, shotgun rounds, and shell fragments. Why it weights 3 pounds or less. Not freaking 4 plates with carrier weighting at 20.

#4079797 - 02/17/15 03:50 AM Re: Save ammo options [Re: Murphy]  
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Oddly enough, they also told me, when I was issued the Kevlar vest, that it was ineffective against a knife puncture wounds.
Wouldn't have helped me, I was cut on the back of my hand, I had no idea, I took my fist to a knife fight, and I thought I was winning, as there was blood all over his face, and my fist. Didn't even feel it. I was worried about getting a Citizens Complaint for excessive force. But it was my blood.

Go figure... wink

Almost any rifle, would breeze through a Kevlar vest. We knew that. But it was better than nothing.
As far as a reason to ban a 5.56mm round, it's senseless. In all respects.
If they do that, what about the 7.62mm, or the 8mm, or how about the .50 Cal. round?

I'd say, sign the petition, no matter what your preferences are. Do it for "Harry" wink


"Murphy's Law"
#4079799 - 02/17/15 03:56 AM Re: Save ammo options [Re: Murphy]  
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Ok I did. Just do to how totally stupid this is.

I never buy that stuff anyways. i like the older more lethal kind....M193 where the bullet at over 2600 fps without any steel in there, totally fragments into a zillion chunks. Something ss109 and 855 where trying to not have happen. BTW, that was never intended by the designers. Just sort of worked out that way...

Last edited by FlashBurn; 02/17/15 04:00 AM.
#4079801 - 02/17/15 04:13 AM Re: Save ammo options [Re: Murphy]  
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Want to point one other thing out....

Civilian ammo is generally MORE lethal than military stuff. Soft points, hollow points, and frangible ammo are not legal to wage war with. But civvies use them to hunt with and as self defense rounds. Another reason why I think things such as this are stupid.

#4079809 - 02/17/15 04:36 AM Re: Save ammo options [Re: Murphy]  
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Everything you've said is correct.
Well known by people who are either in the business, or sport shooters as a hobby.
But if we don't stop it, by defending our privileges, or 'rights', they WILL take them away.
If you can't afford a professional body guard, or don't have personal professional government security people, then you need to pay attention. THEY don't care about not having a 5.56mm round available to 'US', we the people.

And the bad guys....will ALWAYS have guns. I've taken dozens of guns, maybe over a hundred, off the street, and none that I can recall, were ever legally owned by the arrested perp. None. People with a felony record cannot legally own 'any' firearm. 'Most' have never been registered, smuggled in, and some were stolen. And 'all' the guns, will never be taken off the streets, in this country. Never.
If they made it illegal, 3/4 of the handguns would be stolen the next day. And none of the rifles are registered, so 'nobody' knows who has them or where they are. Not even a sales slip, person to person.

It's just the way the world is. It's a struggle, all of it. Life. You fight for what you have.

Thanks for signing, and I'm sure 'Harry' thanks you too wink


"Murphy's Law"
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