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#4078833 - 02/15/15 01:47 AM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. * [Re: heat2151]  
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Im only at 17 pages, smh


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#4078843 - 02/15/15 02:40 AM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
Im only at 17 pages, smh


I'm at 9 pages, hope it doesn't go to 100 pages!


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#4078858 - 02/15/15 04:09 AM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
Also, CTD's Super Bug on Hold had nothing to do with ED,

Lead Developer took promotion, and put Development on hold until he gets free time (according to a FaceBook Comment)


Skate,

Once again thanks for the update. This is unfortunate, I guess at this point any virtual hornet drivers for DCS, will have to wait until ED pulls a giant rabbit out of a hat and we end up with the release of the F/A-18C, some time this year. sigh I hope I'm not reading to much into to this, but my impression is that, he's trowing in the towel on the project. Look, I get it, we all do, real life will always have precedence over any project that for all intent and purposes was a part time hobby.

I guess, it's the emotion over the hype of the project and ultimately it's the disappointment over the let down over the lack of commitment that lead everyone to this point. Most of us have no concept of the type of commitment both financial and personal that it takes to start these projects from the start to finish, did he get the support that he needed from ED, or other sources??? With the limited information that was released, we don't know, or what is going on in his life. But I would be willing to make a huge bet that a lot of people would have backed him in this project if he had some sort of decent time table for a beta release. Funny thing is that, there is a huge fan base of dedicated simmer's out there, and I'm one of them, that would have dropped the money like it's hot to buy the module.


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Last edited by heat2151; 02/15/15 04:26 AM.

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#4079365 - 02/16/15 01:39 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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#4079446 - 02/16/15 03:43 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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I think the CTD hold announcement only solidifies one thing.

When you back burner/part time Development it gets to a point where development stops.

This can be applied to several 3rd Party teams/Developers, including myself.

People on the outside (consumers/non-developers) immediately point the finger at ED, with claims that DCS development is too hard, and ED doesnt help, blah blah blah.

I'll clear that up right now,
Coming from some one thats done a lil bit of everything.
(3D art, SFM, file structure, systems scripting, and a dabble in EFM dll compiling.)

Yes, it's harder than say FSX and SF2, its more complex and in depth than both of those sims, so naturally it's going to be harder.

The issue isnt the difficulty, (granted DCSW is Constantly evolving/changing), the issue is time devoted to development.
Most of the 3rd parties that dissolved or put DCS on hold were studios that were developing for DCS in their free time, part time or as side projects to their FSX development.

Granted an FSX Studio is not going to stop developing what generates their revenue.

The Project I was working on was not release ready even as an AI aircraft due to personal opinions on the quality of the 3D Art, the SFM was done, the systems were partially started, the cockpit was started, 3d panels were well underway to place in the pit, and I had experimented with basic AFM functions while working on the F-16 AFM Demo with Smiley.

All of that was being done w/ maybe 2 days a week max, and sometimes idling for weeks due to.free time. Had I quit my current job and worked on projects 5+ days a week, the outcome would be significantly different. The F-100 Pit would likely be done and we'd likely be working on the AFM and systems in detail.

Of course picking a 4th generation fighter with complex systems to code as your first project in a new environment doesnt help either.

Last edited by SkateZilla; 02/16/15 03:52 PM.

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#4079571 - 02/16/15 07:36 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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Agreed but the business world is based on Perception, not reality. So if people perceive it as difficult then it's "difficult". So yes I know the intricacies in some ways more than others but that doesn't say I'm not interested. But in the conversation we had on FB with FastCargo, if he's not interested and perceives it as difficult and brings up some valid points, he's not going to be interested. So when big name developers drop DCS it sends a Ripple Effect throughout the community. Yes I know you're able to code, and no offense if you're able to do it, then anybody can.

But

The issue is the constant evolution which is good don't get me wrong but creates a hesitancy that most developers actually need some stability to feel confident that all their hard work won't be "destroyed" by a new patch update. FSX doesn't update that much so the code is fairly stable. The Arma series evolves in it's own way and as a modder overall I don't worry too much about them "breaking" their code (such as when 1.24 came out) when a new patch comes out, or adds a new capability. That and poor documentation on how to implement stuff is the main reason not many people are interested, especially the big name developers. So the things to fix that is really:

A) Better support documentation on how to get things into DCS.
B) And it's a stretch but some code stability or create the perception that they can work in a jet given the patch levels.


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#4079608 - 02/16/15 08:45 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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Agreed, outside of TacPack updates, FSX is pretty much code and feature frozen.

Alot of the stuff I did for the AFM demo doesnt work post 1.2.12 (i think).

I havent done anything outside of skinning and testing since the new year started.

I had plans to license a B or D F-14 model to have an AI companion to the Hornet.

But time and planning are up in the air, especially with all the rumors of a 3rd party Cat in the twitter sphere.

As for a FC3 level Super Bug....

All one would need is a better guide to using FC3/LockOn Script avionics, and time to study the HUD code for the hud, the non MFD gauges should all reposond to corresponding animation number. Its just a matter of coding the pit lua etc.

I may look into making the F-16 pit semi functional with SFM just to see what Im working with.

Even if I have to script systems/make it clickable and make it quasi FC3, lol

Last edited by SkateZilla; 02/16/15 08:52 PM.

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#4079667 - 02/16/15 10:40 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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Yeah I mean that guy got a DHC-6 into the sim but your point about 4th-gen+ is a bit shaky due to the known issues. So when things get more clear I think a lot of developers would start doing more work. But for the meantime it's just Wait and See.


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- "...parade ground soldiers always felt that way (contempt) about killers in uniform." -Counting The Cost, Hammer's Slammers
#4079931 - 02/17/15 01:50 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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The solution is an internet-wide virus that permanently destroys FSX so no one can use it. Then devs will cease wasting time on it.




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#4080218 - 02/17/15 08:46 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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Well when they see your post and KNOW who started it well... good luck though... biggrin


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- 'Nearly everyone felt the need to express their views on all wars to me, starting with mine. I found myself thinking, I ate the crap sandwich, you didnt, so please dont tell me how it tastes.' - CPT Cole, US Army
- "...parade ground soldiers always felt that way (contempt) about killers in uniform." -Counting The Cost, Hammer's Slammers
#4080231 - 02/17/15 09:15 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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I'm sorry, Senator, I don't recall that conversation.



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#4080260 - 02/17/15 09:55 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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Reagan may have gotten away with it but nice try... biggrin


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- 'Nearly everyone felt the need to express their views on all wars to me, starting with mine. I found myself thinking, I ate the crap sandwich, you didnt, so please dont tell me how it tastes.' - CPT Cole, US Army
- "...parade ground soldiers always felt that way (contempt) about killers in uniform." -Counting The Cost, Hammer's Slammers
#4080262 - 02/17/15 09:57 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: Jedi Master]  
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
The solution is an internet-wide virus that permanently destroys FSX so no one can use it. Then devs will cease wasting time on it.




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#4080276 - 02/17/15 10:28 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: Jedi Master]  
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
The solution is an internet-wide virus that permanently destroys FSX so no one can use it. Then devs will cease wasting time on it.




The Jedi Master


Tough to call it "wasting time" if they're making money doing it...

Remember, The MSFS series has also been doing the third party thing for a loooonnnngggg time, and the result is that we have an entire eco-system of add-ons ranging from scenery to weather to aircraft to flight planners.

Point being, it's still early days for the yet-unproven DCSW platform, and lots of the heavy hitters for the FSX platform are likely waiting and watching.

That said, I'm hoping that ED is willing to share lessons learned on the baby bug with devs, perhaps even allowing them to use it as template for further aircraft development. One thing that helps FSX, is there's less to do purely "from scratch" for a lot of aircraft, and seeing as how advanced a full-spec DCSW plane can be, I think devs can use any help they can get!

Conversely, if ED chooses to make the bug a closed-door competitor to third parties...I'll be concerned for the platforms future.

As far as the "frozen code" issue, that ice-age ended once P3D hit the street, and things just got even warmer with the release of the Steam Edition. Even then, platform updates have proven to be little more than speedbumps for most devs. Maybe some devs are wating for EDGE to be released, but even then, I suspect many of their base level code work will remain serviceable.


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#4080534 - 02/18/15 04:11 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: Jedi Master]  
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
The solution is an internet-wide virus that permanently destroys FSX so no one can use it. Then devs will cease wasting time on it.


Not so fast.

What is wasteful is subjective.

IMHO ED is wasting resources on a plethora of "stuff" I dont care about.

And the FSX add-on landscape is massive.


"Learning to fly the Falcon is just your ticket to the dance" - Pete 'Boomer' Bonanni.
#4080535 - 02/18/15 04:13 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: AggressorBLUE]  
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Originally Posted By: AggressorBLUE
As far as the "frozen code" issue, that ice-age ended once P3D hit the street, and things just got even warmer with the release of the Steam Edition.


Not really: P3D is still 32-bit andso still subject to many of FSX' limitations and irritations.


"Learning to fly the Falcon is just your ticket to the dance" - Pete 'Boomer' Bonanni.
#4080542 - 02/18/15 04:24 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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P3D isnt FSX, it's still considered a Pro/Commercial Product and not a Consumer Entertainment version.

Most of the tweaks in the Steam Edition have been on the internet for a while (cfg file tweaks, etc).

So for the Most part, FSX has been frozen for a while outside of CFG abd DLL updates, which I will admit can cause problems.


Last edited by SkateZilla; 02/18/15 04:31 PM.

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#4080606 - 02/18/15 06:16 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: Boomer]  
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Originally Posted By: Helo_Head
Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
The solution is an internet-wide virus that permanently destroys FSX so no one can use it. Then devs will cease wasting time on it.


Not so fast.

What is wasteful is subjective.

IMHO ED is wasting resources on a plethora of "stuff" I dont care about.

And the FSX add-on landscape is massive.



Be glad I don't have a time machine. Then no one would ever have known what MSFS was. Uncounted man hours wasted over decades that would've been better used in combat flight sims. MS finally saw the light, but far too late. Then they compounded it by wasting time on Flight! I REALLY hope the guy in charge of that decision is now answering help desk calls for Outlook, because Flight was a black hole blundering into Renaissance Europe when it comes to being a waste.



The Jedi Master


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#4080611 - 02/18/15 06:25 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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Pfft, Flight! was a disaster form the get-go, and those in the community who had their heads screwed on straight knew it at the time.


"Learning to fly the Falcon is just your ticket to the dance" - Pete 'Boomer' Bonanni.
#4080621 - 02/18/15 06:49 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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Lol Planes with no Cockpits for $9.99,

And yet Steam kiddies complain about DCS prices not being $1.99-$4.99 range


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