#4070297 - 01/27/15 10:06 PM
Re: It's a GAME, not a SIM!
[Re: 777 Studios - Jason]
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,984
Master
meh
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meh
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,984
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Calling me a liar??? I NEVER LIE to my customers, EVER!! All of you calling me a liar are way, way, way, way off-base. Show me exactly where I have lied EVER to any of you??? 1C has never done ANYTHING to harm this community. Any issues you don't like are the fault of the team or direct management, not some evil 1C. If there was some conspiracy I would quit. 1C has been nothing but be supportive and level headed to us and put their money where their mouth is. Without 1C you have no original IL-2, no CLOD and no BOS. 1C did not screw up CLOD or pull the plug before suffering huge monetary losses and suffering empty promises by others. 1C did not break anything, they provided money to fix whatever was broken. You guys don't get it.
The personal insults on this board are beyond the pail. I have labored for many years now to give simmers enjoyment and something to look forward to with their favorite hobby and this is what I get? Being called a liar after all this time and all that I have fought hard to bring you. So, so, so God damn tired of it.
Jason I will also admit that I was worried when I first heard about BoS and I backed it solely on the fact that you were in a command seat on the project. Boy was that a mistake. Now you are saying all the decisions I hate were your idea? It would be best if you just let people call you a liar (towing the party line) than to own up to all this #%&*$# with BoS. Was it really your idea to have graphic presets? To remove complex key controls? To make the campaign into a pathetic soul crushing shell which no one enjoys? I have a real hard time stomaching that.
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#4070410 - 01/28/15 04:05 AM
Re: It's a GAME, not a SIM!
[Re: KodiakJac]
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 624
FlyingMonkey
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Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 624
Down under in Adelaide
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Same here. Really Jason? In the end you were the one behind the unlocks and the graphic presets? And you are still thinking that these were the best things to do for the success of IL2 BOS?
I've supported IL2 BOS from the very beginning on the basis that it was going to be a similar sim to RoF, and that was the pitch that was given to us initially. I would still support IL2 BOS if only the roadmap looked like something that could bring us on a similar track to RoF. But I can't understand how you came to make such strange and damaging decisions and how you are now seemingly constantly blaming us for not liking a sim that isn't designed at all to appeal to the sim community (but also fails to be appealing to the War Thunder, World of Tanks etc crowd). I also can't understand how you are seemingly failing to admit that anything is wrong with BOS, especially when some of the things which seem to be massively controversial would be easy to fix (the graphic presets... such an easy storm to defuse, and there was plenty of time to do that before the release).
What a waste.
Last edited by FlyingMonkey; 01/28/15 04:07 AM.
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#4070551 - 01/28/15 02:13 PM
Re: It's a GAME, not a SIM!
[Re: KodiakJac]
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 785
Blue 5
Member
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Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 785
London
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When refuting claims that one is a liar, it is good practice to offer some evidence to support such refutation, especially as to why certain [unfortunate / unpopular] events unfolded and the decision-making that lead to these. If someone is thought to be a liar by others - however unfairly - this suggests that at best there is an information vacuum. Being open about what occurred is thus likely to be the best defence against accusations of lying.
I fired up BoS the other day and flew 3 109s missions. All had 4 waypoints, all had 2 / 3 109s, 2 / 3 bombers and 2 / 3 escorts (if bombers were Soviet). Stalingrad was dead apart from occasional artillery explosions. The Volga was denuded of everything. I saw no ground traffic. No aircraft (they were all at waypoint 3). May as well have been Siberia. No interest, excitement or joy. I unlocked a removable headrest, but who am I, what am I doing, which unit am I with, what is going on? I cannot make missions for myself and single-player has bored me already so it looks like online is the only thing to do.
Not the feeling I get with Il-2, CLoD or RoF, so what happened and why did it happen this way?
Bit sad to rail against Jason but the buck has to stop somewhere. Thus if I might paraphrase him:
"The decisions and structure in BoS are beyond the pail. I have played flight-sims for many years and paid $100 to develop a new product to give simmers enjoyment and something to look forward to with our favorite hobby and this is what I get? Being stuck with something replete with obviously and predicable flaws and given no proper explanation after the $1000 that I paid to help bring it. So, so, so God damn bored of BoS already."
Nice self-fulfilling prophecy, by the way: traditional simulators do not generate enough money (which begs the question of why - honestly - you used the 'IL-2 lineage' sales ploy), so releasing a would-be sim with aspects that irritate the core community who paid for EA and lead to generally negative reviews and lower sales leads to the conclusion that traditional simulators do not make money.
My first post on this, by the way, in any forum., as I am usually a 'given them a break' kind of guy, but this is so much of 777 / 1C / whoever's own making that I have no sympathy with them. Do something quickly, people; release a road-map, a proper and self-critical update explaining certain strategic decisions and direction or I fear that the future of the BoS project will prove very limited.
Flying online (when I get the chance) as EAF19 Marsh
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#4070569 - 01/28/15 02:45 PM
Re: It's a GAME, not a SIM!
[Re: Blue 5]
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,984
Master
meh
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meh
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,984
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Nice self-fulfilling prophecy, by the way: traditional simulators do not generate enough money (which begs the question of why - honestly - you used the 'IL-2 lineage' sales ploy), so releasing a would-be sim with aspects that irritate the core community who paid for EA and lead to generally negative reviews and lower sales leads to the conclusion that traditional simulators do not make money. This is one of the things that pisses me off with BoS defenders. I think most people are smart enough to see that the fact that people dont like BoS has nothing to do with mainstream simulators being unpopular and everything to do with BoS being a steaming pile of ****. They can continue to tow that line all they want though. It just makes them look like idiots.
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#4070994 - 01/29/15 03:31 AM
Re: It's a GAME, not a SIM!
[Re: KodiakJac]
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 457
VMIalpha454
Member
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Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 457
Chattanooga, Tn
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I find it ironic that my frustration with BoS actually led me to playing War Thunder. The difference is that War Thunder is fun. Battle of Stalingrad is not.
"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." 1stLt. Clifton B. Cates, USMC in Belleau Wood, 19 July 1918
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#4071080 - 01/29/15 09:53 AM
Re: It's a GAME, not a SIM!
[Re: KodiakJac]
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 240
Wolf_Rider
Member
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Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 240
Australia
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~ This is one of the things that pisses me off with BoS defenders. I think most people are smart enough to see that the fact that people dont like BoS has nothing to do with mainstream simulators being unpopular and everything to do with BoS being a steaming pile of ****.
They can continue to tow that line all they want though. It just makes them look like idiots.
and, understandably, some still say "iz not rat, iz hamster"
“Hypocrisy in anything whatever may deceive the cleverest and most penetrating man, but the least wide-awake of children recognizes it, and is revolted by it, however ingeniously it may be disguised.”
Leo Tolstoy, Anna Karenina
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#4071125 - 01/29/15 12:52 PM
Re: It's a GAME, not a SIM!
[Re: VMIalpha454]
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,105
Chucky
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,105
UK
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I find it ironic that my frustration with BoS actually led me to playing War Thunder. The difference is that War Thunder is fun. Battle of Stalingrad is not. I don't think the dev team would ever have foreseen that happening!
EV's are the Devils matchbox.
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#4071380 - 01/29/15 07:25 PM
Re: It's a GAME, not a SIM!
[Re: KodiakJac]
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,213
Trooper117
Hotshot
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Hotshot
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,213
UK
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The mouse support means nothing to anyone who likes to play full real. We can continue exactly the same as before with our full HOTAS set up. What it does allow is any newcomer to the WWI aviation scene the ability to fly using a mouse only. If that helps to get more people flying and enjoying RoF then that is only to the good of the genre.
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#4071439 - 01/29/15 09:04 PM
Re: It's a GAME, not a SIM!
[Re: Trooper117]
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,179
bisher
I'll be your Huckleberry
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I'll be your Huckleberry
Veteran
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,179
Manitoba, Canada
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lol, c'mon guys, I'm still really hoping that eventually all the glitches and design choices will eventually be ironed out. Time is on our side. There are so many great games I'm involved with at the moment that I'm not really noticing the fact that I've put BoS on the back burner for a bit This sums my position on the game as well Trooper
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#4071458 - 01/29/15 09:49 PM
Re: It's a GAME, not a SIM!
[Re: bisher]
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Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 473
Taxman
Member
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Member
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 473
Portland, OR USA
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lol, c'mon guys, I'm still really hoping that eventually all the glitches and design choices will eventually be ironed out. Time is on our side. There are so many great games I'm involved with at the moment that I'm not really noticing the fact that I've put BoS on the back burner for a bit This sums my position on the game as well Trooper Same for me. There are to many things that I enjoy, putting BOS on the "take it up once a week to make sure there are no oil leaks and that I remember how to fly the sim/game" is where I'm at. I also don't have time for drama that has developed concerning BOS.
Taxes are my part time profession, flying is my passion.
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#4071487 - 01/29/15 11:32 PM
Re: It's a GAME, not a SIM!
[Re: Taxman]
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,914
JagerNeun
Member
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Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,914
Shenandoah Valley, Virginia
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lol, c'mon guys, I'm still really hoping that eventually all the glitches and design choices will eventually be ironed out. Time is on our side. There are so many great games I'm involved with at the moment that I'm not really noticing the fact that I've put BoS on the back burner for a bit This sums my position on the game as well Trooper Same for me. There are to many things that I enjoy, putting BOS on the "take it up once a week to make sure there are no oil leaks and that I remember how to fly the sim/game" is where I'm at. I also don't have time for drama that has developed concerning BOS. (+1) I'm in stand bye mode.....with an occasional flight from time to time. The game has some drawbacks, but it's also got some great features as well. I think there's a lot of us that feel the same way.
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#4071493 - 01/29/15 11:46 PM
Re: It's a GAME, not a SIM!
[Re: scrim]
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 601
SkullBiscuit
Member
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Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 601
USA
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Sooo, is it safe to ask a few questions?
Have the devs stated that the SP campaign has reached its ultimate form?
Will mods like RFB for SH4, etc. be possible at some stage? Can't imagine that! TMO and RFB can modify nearly everything in the sim which is designed for solo play only...including adding ships never included in the original.....you'll have to depend on Il-2 original and CloD for anything like that. These guys are the exact opposite...lock everything down
AMD 8 core at 4.7Ghz 16GB Ram GTX 970 4GB Sim on SSD Win 7 64bit
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#4071501 - 01/30/15 12:02 AM
Re: It's a GAME, not a SIM!
[Re: KodiakJac]
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,859
Extreme_One
Mission Builder
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Mission Builder
Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,859
Southampton England
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Hang on a moment. So if I type HOTAS then Amazon get's a linky. Cool. Do I get some kinda kickback? No? Bugger!
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#4071503 - 01/30/15 12:03 AM
Re: It's a GAME, not a SIM!
[Re: SkullBiscuit]
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 560
lokitexas
Member
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Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 560
San Antonio, TX.
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Sooo, is it safe to ask a few questions?
Have the devs stated that the SP campaign has reached its ultimate form?
Will mods like RFB for SH4, etc. be possible at some stage? Can't imagine that! TMO and RFB can modify nearly everything in the sim which is designed for solo play only...including adding ships never included in the original.....you'll have to depend on Il-2 original and CloD for anything like that. These guys are the exact opposite...lock everything down I agree. I don't see anything amazing being able to me modded in BoS. Even if you exclude aircraft, which I understand why they would not support that. How many uber mods have been made for RoF? How many mods are on a "must have" list for RoF? But hey, at least you can paint your plane....
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#4071504 - 01/30/15 12:03 AM
Re: It's a GAME, not a SIM!
[Re: KodiakJac]
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,859
Extreme_One
Mission Builder
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Mission Builder
Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,859
Southampton England
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HOTAS HOTAS HOTASBugger. Nothing. Nada. Lets' try something else ... Boobies .. Short-Skirts ... knickers ... Grrrr. Nothing at all.
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#4071589 - 01/30/15 05:55 AM
Re: It's a GAME, not a SIM!
[Re: KodiakJac]
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,943
knightgames
Hotshot
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Hotshot
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,943
MA
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Holy Mackerel! The CH Products Fighterstick USB is 172 dollars?!!? I paid about a $109.00. Of course that was ten years ago, but still...
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