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#4059178 - 01/03/15 04:32 AM Re: Just home from seeing "Fury"... [Re: RSColonel_131st]  
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I thought it was quite dull.

Right from the beginning I thought the movie was weird. From a filmmaking standpoint, It was almost artistic in a weird way I don't know what to think about, like it should have been in a different movie. It looked quite theatrical and surreal in an artsy way.

I was surprised that they ripped off a Saving Private Ryan character and recycled him, the REMF type who gets thrown in. And I don't remember seeing many film critics mention that, nor a few other SPR like scenes that they kind of rip off.

Then there was the dinner scene:

Click to reveal..
I found it odd that they were getting emotional about the dead horses they saw everywhere, even as an animal lover, I find it a bit confused that they are this disjointed- suddenly they are sad about dead horses after everything else. That scene seems unnecessary to me except to manipulate the audience. But it didn't work in the audience I sat it in, it wasn't even stories about dead children or dead friends. That explains the movie in a nutshell, in my experience. I felt really nothing about what was going on, emotionally it was kind of odd.


Too much cliche theme music, even during the battle scenes, in fact sometimes the battles stop just so a key conversation occurs with this stock theme music. And they actually had the female choir voice balling: "Waaaaaaaahhhhhhhh..." I thought filmmakers stopped using that years ago because it was so cliche and all but a phoney way to amp up the emotion in a scene. Just really a cheap technique, and it shows. SPR didn't do this during the fight sequences. You got to hear the sounds without sappy theme music applied over the beach sequence- imagine the opening sequence of SPR with this choir music. It would have changed that scene entirely, it would have destroyed it.

The ending was a farce. Whatever it what was trying to say as narrative, it concludes as kind of ridiculous. At that point it shifts gears and it doesn't really try and use any logic on you.

Just seemed quite average. Costumes and sets were ok, they had a running Tiger tank, but there is a tank duel that goes at high speed with a lot quick cuts and panning of the camera, I couldn't get into this because it seemed to kind of ruin the pacing again.

It doesn't capture the documentary style of SPR- the shaking hand held cameras and grainy looking, washed out film look certainly isn't borrowed, even other things are. Too difficult not to make the comparison.






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#4059196 - 01/03/15 06:28 AM Re: Just home from seeing "Fury"... [Re: RSColonel_131st]  
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I watched it tonight with my wife and I thought it was awful.


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#4059887 - 01/05/15 02:06 AM Re: Just home from seeing "Fury"... [Re: SFViper19D]  
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Originally Posted By: SFViper19D

I thought the end battle probably was hollywoodized just a hair.


Just a hair you reckon biggrin It reminded me of the older WW2 movies where the Germans keep coming and the goodies just keep on mowing them down like they are schoolgirls out for a picnic.


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#4059892 - 01/05/15 02:32 AM Re: Just home from seeing "Fury"... [Re: Ajay]  
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Originally Posted By: Ajay
Originally Posted By: SFViper19D

I thought the end battle probably was hollywoodized just a hair.


Just a hair you reckon biggrin It reminded me of the older WW2 movies where the Germans keep coming and the goodies just keep on mowing them down like they are schoolgirls out for a picnic.


Quote:
This Citation was awarded to Audie Murphy for Conspicuous Gallantry and Intrepidity Involving Risk of Life Above and Beyond the Call of Duty In Action With the Enemy, 26 January 1945. The citation reads:
2d Lt. Murphy commanded Company B, which was attacked by 6 tanks and waves of infantry. 2d Lt. Murphy ordered his men to withdraw to prepared positions in a woods, while he remained forward at his command post and continued to give fire directions to the artillery by telephone. Behind him, to his right, 1 of our tank destroyers received a direct hit and began to burn. Its crew withdrew to the woods. 2d Lt. Murphy continued to direct artillery fire which killed large numbers of the advancing enemy infantry. With the enemy tanks abreast of his position, 2d Lt. Murphy climbed on the burning tank destroyer, which was in danger of blowing up at any moment, and employed its .50 caliber machine gun against the enemy. He was alone and exposed to German fire from 3 sides, but his deadly fire killed dozens of Germans and caused their infantry attack to waver. The enemy tanks, losing infantry support, began to fall back. For an hour the Germans tried every available weapon to eliminate 2d Lt. Murphy, but he continued to hold his position and wiped out a squad which was trying to creep up unnoticed on his right flank. Germans reached as close as 10 yards, only to be mowed down by his fire. He received a leg wound, but ignored it and continued the single-handed fight until his ammunition was exhausted. He then made his way to his company, refused medical attention, and organized the company in a counterattack which forced the Germans to withdraw. His directing of artillery fire wiped out many of the enemy; he killed or wounded about 50. 2d Lt. Murphy's indomitable courage and his refusal to give an inch of ground saved his company from possible encirclement and destruction, and enabled it to hold the woods which had been the enemy's objective.


Maybe Just a hair. They had Five crew members after all. biggrin


Text taken from: http://amhistory.si.edu/militaryhistory/collection/object.asp?ID=421


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#4059893 - 01/05/15 02:38 AM Re: Just home from seeing "Fury"... [Re: RSColonel_131st]  
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Fury cannot be compared to Audie Murphy at all, since it was just a view of a tankers life toward the
end of WW2. Survival was all they wanted.

I agree, the dinner scene was a JOKE. Hard to watch.


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#4059899 - 01/05/15 03:52 AM Re: Just home from seeing "Fury"... [Re: RSColonel_131st]  
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WARNING- some spoilers.

I don't think it compares to Audi Murphy (which is of course incredible) except superficially in that they are vastly outnumbered and at times they are fighting unbuttoned. However, they even have the advantage in that they are fighting with a tank that is operational but immobilized. But I figured someone working on the film had heard of Audi Murphy and used that occasion to justify something that seems very ridiculous.

I don't know the exact setup that happened with Audi Murphy, distances, lines of sight and so forth, but I will assume that it didn't resemble the final scene in Fury. The enemy doesn't just approach from far away when engaged, they are already within a couple of feet. And then it gets dark, somehow the enemy is more affected by the dark than Fury's crew. The position that Fury is in is quite precarious- nothing stops the enemy from surrounding the tank, attacking from directions that the hull machine guns can't reach or where the turret can't traverse to.

The final act is actually one long part of the story with Fury's tank platoon encountering the Tiger. That really is one long contiguous scene- the conceit would set up Fury to go on alone without assistance, so that the crew can explain for the audience that the tank is their home, which it is- except it gets kind of absurd, because that shouldn't mean that you become suicidal over your home, either. That part seems absurdly poetic. It reminds me of a part in Guy Sajer's book The Forgotten Soldier when one of the stereotypical 'veteran' characters suddenly decides to call it quits and for all practical purposes commits suicide when he decides he doesn't want to run from the Soviet assault wave. It's more poetic than reality. I don't know Audi Murphy's frame of mind when he did what he did, but I don't assume suicide was his motive- in Fury, that seems to be what Brad Pitt comes to, and then convinces the crew to do the same.

#4059900 - 01/05/15 04:05 AM Re: Just home from seeing "Fury"... [Re: JimK]  
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Originally Posted By: JimK


I agree, the dinner scene was a JOKE. Hard to watch.


That scene just does not make sense to me.

Click to reveal..
Look at the context: killing children, who in turn have killed some of them, seeing the effects of the local SS commander hanging deserters (children) killing POW's begging for their lives (and implying this is not a first time), losing friends, basically seeing everything that you can imagine up to this point (and you get the sense they are about ready to rape civilians), and then all of a sudden this bizarre emotional discussion over the dead horses.

It is well documented that many horses were killed in the Falaise Pocket during the heavy air raids, and because the German army did have a lot of horse drawn equipment, so yes, there were a lot of animals killed. But why this scene where they get emotional about it?

I like horses, I like animals, but in that situation, that's just not really anything that would affect you at that point. That tells me the filmmakers don't even understand the emotional impact of what they're trying to do.

#4059903 - 01/05/15 05:05 AM Re: Just home from seeing "Fury"... [Re: RSColonel_131st]  
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BTW, should be using the spioiler tags for your announcements revealing what happened


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#4059905 - 01/05/15 05:07 AM Re: Just home from seeing "Fury"... [Re: RSColonel_131st]  
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I agree, fixed.

#4060070 - 01/05/15 04:53 PM Re: Just home from seeing "Fury"... [Re: RSColonel_131st]  
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Just back from seeing it.I'm not a huge cinema fan but in the afternoon I almost always have the place to myself or only a small crowd.

It was actually better than I thought although like others stated,the ending was OTT. I won't be adding it to my repeat watch list though. The Tiger didn't get much screen time did it? Not sure why they even needed it unless hiring it was cheaper than CGI and mock-ups.

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#4060635 - 01/07/15 09:39 AM Re: Just home from seeing "Fury"... [Re: RSColonel_131st]  
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Was good to see once, don't have any desire to see it again.

Some of the scenes were good but many were over the top for sure. And I don't think the developers of the movie, for all their 'attention' to accuracy really seemed to understand German military tactics or doctrine in WW2.

The scene where they shot the German in the GI coat was ridiculous. The crew has thier tank decorated with war trophies from all over the ETO yet this German soldier, in 1945 is executed by these guys because he is wearing a coat probably taken off of a dead GI sometime in the past. Sorry but I call BS here. Yes, the SS was brutalized by many but most GIs realized that the average German soldier wasn't a whole lot different from them. Most of them by 1945 were tired of the war and were surrendering en masse to the Allies. By April of 1945 most of them were poorly equipped, hungry and were stripping their dead, and whever enemy dead they could just to stay warm. To make a private shoot him to 'toughen him up' is simply crap.

They really started to lose me in the Tiger scene. Fury's M4 was an E8 model, 76mm 'Easy Eight', undoubtedly the best model of the Sherman made, at least as far as the US equipped models. The rest of the Shermans in the group were 75mm modeled ones. Tiger crewman learned early on that you target the 76mm gunned Shermans first, not last. In reality Fury would have cooked up first in that scene, not gotten a chance to pull a kill shot on that Tiger. I do think the scene did do a good job demonstrating the futility of engaging Tiger Tanks.

The final scene was just ridiculous. This was supposed to be a highly trained Waffen SS unit? I am willing to bet that a fair number of them were veterans of the Russian Front, taking on T-34/85 and IS2 tanks and at a minimum the leaders of this group would never attempt the kamakazee head on attack on a stationary target like this. Even if they only had panzerfausts (not a single Panzerschrek) they wouldn't do this the way the did it. This had my BS meter pinging. Then at the end, an SS soldier, after seeing his entire company wiped out by this one tank, lets a crewman go? Really?


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#4060838 - 01/07/15 07:13 PM Re: Just home from seeing "Fury"... [Re: Wklink]  
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Originally Posted By: Wklink




They really started to lose me in the Tiger scene. Fury's M4 was an E8 model, 76mm 'Easy Eight', undoubtedly the best model of the Sherman made, at least as far as the US equipped models. The rest of the Shermans in the group were 75mm modeled ones. Tiger crewman learned early on that you target the 76mm gunned Shermans first, not last. In reality Fury would have cooked up first in that scene, not gotten a chance to pull a kill shot on that Tiger. I do think the scene did do a good job demonstrating the futility of engaging Tiger Tanks.



The experienced Tiger crew (as Tiger crews tended to be drawn from the most experienced crews) should have chosen alternate battle positions to fall back to in the event the Sherman used smoke or started to get close to the flanks. Instead, the Tiger charges forward, closing the gap, giving up the advantage of the long range duel. The Tiger turret is much slower than the Sherman's, in a circling duel like that it is not going to be able to traverse the gun as fast as the Sherman. But there you have it, that's the fight they got into.

#4060841 - 01/07/15 07:18 PM Re: Just home from seeing "Fury"... [Re: RSColonel_131st]  
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No Panzer IV's or Panthers in the film? Those would have had no problem with the turret turning too slowly.


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#4060845 - 01/07/15 07:25 PM Re: Just home from seeing "Fury"... [Re: RSColonel_131st]  
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One of the guys over at the SB forum posted this thought it was funny.

http://s27.postimg.org/6c84wwwmr/14319_10205790560712936_8623556103870320277_n.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]

#4060887 - 01/07/15 09:23 PM Re: Just home from seeing "Fury"... [Re: RSColonel_131st]  
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Got to see it myself for the first time last weekend. Thought it was horrible. Way over the top battle scenes with no attention at all paid to real tactics. Was really disappointed. They had the makings of a good war flick, uniforms were superb, real tanks...production set was superb, other than that...horrible.

@marko That pic you showed was spot on. That is pretty much what was going through my head during that last battle scene.

#4060924 - 01/07/15 11:03 PM Re: Just home from seeing "Fury"... [Re: RSColonel_131st]  
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I think they just used what Shermans were available for filming, by this time all the front line ones should be 76MM anyways, so not a big deal really. I don't think less of Battle of Britain because they used 4 bladed spits, or Tora!Tora!Tora! because they used P-40Es and not C's. I did think the battle with the SS was pretty ridiculous though, banzai charges...right... Overall I liked it except for the ending.

#4060925 - 01/07/15 11:06 PM Re: Just home from seeing "Fury"... [Re: RSColonel_131st]  
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I just took it for what it is... a Brad Pitt movie, not a documentary. That way I was not disappointed.

#4060928 - 01/07/15 11:13 PM Re: Just home from seeing "Fury"... [Re: RSColonel_131st]  
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I think that's a red herring sort of argument- you could feasibly use that to justify anything.

No, I think most people don't really intend to see a documentary, I personally am willing to accept a lot of concessions. My overall problem with Fury isn't one or two sketchy things that go on, but taken as a whole, it was kind of boring to me. The camera work and overall direction didn't capture my imagination so much, the characters don't really resonate, too many cheap emotional points trying to score, but not really effectively. The final scene is the coup de grace on a film that was just average already (there's not really even much tank vs. tank action- if you went in expecting to see that, there's hardly any).

#4060968 - 01/08/15 01:30 AM Re: Just home from seeing "Fury"... [Re: RSColonel_131st]  
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The infantry attack, the ambush, even that half-hearted combat in the small town, I think they were pretty good.

Being a war flick, a genre movie, they could hardly evade a number of tropes - the rookie, the preacher, the atheist, some quite moments with fraternization that doesn't end well.

The tank on tank scene could have directly been taken from World of Tanks (ironically chosen for co-advertisement in my cinema). It started out as not entirely implausible, but ended ridiculous. Likewise, The Last Stand. It seemed to me that the Tiger battle was concocted as a sole plot device to make sure that Fury would be the only tank at the crossroads, then conveniently immobilized by the only mine wide and far (at least it was right on the crossroads itself; that at least made some sense - not so however that it was directly adjacent to the field hospital. The mine would have belonged some 500m up the road as an early warning device/delaying element).

So, it had its good and its bad moments.

To the director's credit, tank battles are probably the most difficult ones to film (that's why there are so few films focusing on armor). The insides are so cramped, you can't film in them. So you need a "tank interior" set where you can remove walls and film from selected angles without breaking the immersion. If you get that right, there's still the problem of wide angles/comparatively long distances. If the average tank battle in WW2 took place at 700m distance you hardly get to see the target with the naked eye if filmed against a green background. Give the audience the scope view of the gunner, arguably more satisfying, and the audience loses context. If you have the tanks at realistic distances within the platoon you wide angle shots which make it difficult to hide the film crew, plus the adjacent tanks shrink so small that you can hardly recognize the other tank commanders from the platoon leader's POV. If you take survey shots from a helicopter/mega crane, the audience is quickly disconnected from the protagonists.
Likewise, if all tanks brew up with the first impact (extremely likely today, at least it happened often enough in WW2) it's hard to build tension. So you really need grazing shots, near misses, ricochets. And you need them more often than they occur in real life.

It seems that pretty much anything related to tanks is putting the film crew at a serious disadvantage. So at the very least you need to have the tanks drive so closely to each other like they would never do in real life. It simply is a concession to the requirement to bring it adequately to the screen. Any director attempting a tank movie is in for a real challenge.

#4060994 - 01/08/15 04:56 AM Re: Just home from seeing "Fury"... [Re: RSColonel_131st]  
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Excellent post Ssnake and the challenges you mentioned can also be applied to trying to accurately portray aerial dogfights on film.


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