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#4060214 - 01/05/15 11:23 PM Anyone still play Eidos/Innerloop's JSF?  
Joined: Oct 2010
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Markdude Offline
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Markdude  Offline
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Austin, TX
Anybody still play this classic sim? I recently fired it up and was pleasantly surprised that it works fine with Windows 7 as long as I don't run in any resolution higher than 1024x768, but it will randomly crash after playing for a few minutes at anything higher. The in-game music also doesn't seem to work (although the menu does), but there's a video on Youtube of the soundtrack that I put on repeat while I'm flying.

Has anyone been successful in getting higher resolutions and/or anti-aliasing working properly? If I use the ATI Control Panel to try to override the AA settings, it still doesn't seem to make any difference. I've also tried the nGlide wrapper just for fun, but regardless of resolution, there's quite a bit of stuttering.

Anyway, it's still a really fun sim and I'm enjoying it all over again!

#4072408 - 02/01/15 04:24 PM Re: Anyone still play Eidos/Innerloop's JSF? [Re: Markdude]  
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WinterH Offline
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I had to run a 32bit virtual machine to even get it running in my computer to take some screen shots for this article of mine smile :

http://whmilsimflyer.blogspot.com/2015/02/blast-from-past-joint-strike-fighter-by.html?view=sidebar

It's a pretty obscure and perhaps somewhat underrated title in my opinion. It had some pretty interesting stuff for it's day in it. Terrain looked smoother than even some modern titles down low smile

Here's more of the screenshots from that '97 title

#4079042 - 02/15/15 06:03 PM Re: Anyone still play Eidos/Innerloop's JSF? [Re: Markdude]  
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Capt Haddock Offline
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Awesome blog, Winter! Thanks for sharing.

If I remember well I tried the JSF demo and was really impressed with the landscape engine. There was definitely nothing like it at the time. Why I never got it? who knows, but I wish I had. Still looks pretty nice. Not realistic of course, but still nice.


Il est plus tard que tu ne crois
#4079070 - 02/15/15 07:29 PM Re: Anyone still play Eidos/Innerloop's JSF? [Re: Markdude]  
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Parker Offline
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So if you keep the res at 1024x768 the crashing stops?

#4102872 - 04/07/15 09:23 PM Re: Anyone still play Eidos/Innerloop's JSF? [Re: Markdude]  
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Canadair Offline
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I installed it without problems in Windows 8.1 With Nglide 3dfx works,
And it seems that at 1024 x 768 there is no crash.

#4109313 - 04/20/15 10:04 PM Re: Anyone still play Eidos/Innerloop's JSF? [Re: Markdude]  
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NamelessPFG Offline
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It crashes on me before I can complete a single campaign sortie, even at 1024x768. Quite a shame, since I really do like this sim and have fond memories of messing about in the demo. I don't think that was ever patched, possibly because running at 1600x1200 on the hardware of the time would've been nothing more than a pipe dream.

Glide wrappers are out of the question; they just turn the game into a total unresponsive slideshow. Graphics quality doesn't really look any better for it, either. Testing Glide mode will have to wait until I've got a system to cram my Voodoo2 and/or Voodoo5 into.

I'd really like a modern equivalent with greater stability, multiplayer campaigns and head-tracking support, among other things. The HMD is just calling out for some TrackIR and/or VR headset support; panning around with a hat switch just feels wrong.

#4128716 - 06/03/15 08:29 PM Re: Anyone still play Eidos/Innerloop's JSF? [Re: Markdude]  
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Reticuli Offline
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Reticuli  Offline
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Dayton, OH, USA
The keyboard controls are all backwards, and JSF does not like the Saitek X-65f.

In 800x600 I've been using it for the last hour with no CTDs yet, just funky keys, no X-65 support, and my inability to release weapons for some reason in campaign mode.

High resolution, fixed joystick support, and assignable keys might make this up to TAW's level... or better. There's a clickable cockpit.

Last edited by Reticuli; 06/03/15 09:53 PM.

The term "necroposting" was invented by a person with no social memory beyond a year. People with a similar hangup are those o.k. with the internet being transient vapor.

http://www.openfuelstandard.org/2011/12/methanol-wins-open-wager.html

Saitek X65 and X52, Glide, Winx3D, and GlovePIE Profiles http://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=reticuli&CatID=miscmisc

http://library.avsim.net/register.php

X52 + Silicone Grease = JOY stick
#4266874 - 06/04/16 09:03 AM Re: Anyone still play Eidos/Innerloop's JSF? [Re: Markdude]  
Joined: Mar 2011
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GamingPrince83 Offline
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GamingPrince83  Offline
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Germany
Originally Posted By: Markdude
Anybody still play this classic sim? I recently fired it up and was pleasantly surprised that it works fine with Windows 7 as long as I don't run in any resolution higher than 1024x768, but it will randomly crash after playing for a few minutes at anything higher. The in-game music also doesn't seem to work (although the menu does), but there's a video on Youtube of the soundtrack that I put on repeat while I'm flying.

Has anyone been successful in getting higher resolutions and/or anti-aliasing working properly? If I use the ATI Control Panel to try to override the AA settings, it still doesn't seem to make any difference. I've also tried the nGlide wrapper just for fun, but regardless of resolution, there's quite a bit of stuttering.

Anyway, it's still a really fun sim and I'm enjoying it all over again!


Try Nglide version 0.98, i can play in Resolutions up to 2560x1440 with no crashes at all. Also you need an Audio-CD cable like they used to use in the Windows 98 era to play the Music. For AA you could use Reshade: Reshade

#4322760 - 12/23/16 06:48 PM Re: Anyone still play Eidos/Innerloop's JSF? [Re: Markdude]  
Joined: Oct 2010
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Markdude Offline
Junior Member
Markdude  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2010
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Austin, TX
I thought I'd bump this thread as I'm trying to play it again.

I'm on a completely new machine vs. when I originally posted this thread and am still having issues with random crashes to the desktop. I've tried Nglide but the game runs pretty poorly with 3DFX enabled (plus it seems to be limited to 800x600 in that mode). I bought a still-sealed retail copy of JSF and updated to version 1.12 but I still get random crashes. Any tips on getting this to work properly with Windows 7?

I'm thinking a virtual machine would be a great idea since there are a lot of older titles I'd love to play, but I need a newbie friendly step-by-step guide to setting one up. I've got Oracle VirtualBox and I know I'll need to get a copy of Windows XP (or earlier).

Last edited by Markdude; 12/23/16 06:49 PM.
#4322955 - 12/24/16 11:46 AM Re: Anyone still play Eidos/Innerloop's JSF? [Re: Markdude]  
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NamelessPFG Offline
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Originally Posted By: Markdude
I thought I'd bump this thread as I'm trying to play it again.

I'm on a completely new machine vs. when I originally posted this thread and am still having issues with random crashes to the desktop. I've tried Nglide but the game runs pretty poorly with 3DFX enabled (plus it seems to be limited to 800x600 in that mode). I bought a still-sealed retail copy of JSF and updated to version 1.12 but I still get random crashes. Any tips on getting this to work properly with Windows 7?

I'm thinking a virtual machine would be a great idea since there are a lot of older titles I'd love to play, but I need a newbie friendly step-by-step guide to setting one up. I've got Oracle VirtualBox and I know I'll need to get a copy of Windows XP (or earlier).

Sadly, I don't know a decisive fix for the crashes, but what I have found is that increasing the resolution speeds up the time to crash significantly. Damn shame, since JSF looks great at 1600x1200 and the software renderer doesn't appear to be missing any effects compared to the 3dfx one (which, as mentioned, performs awfully with current Glide wrappers).

If you can stand to play at lower resolution for a while, try dropping down to 1024x768 or even 800x600 and see if it holds stable enough to let you get through an entire mission.

While I don't know what causes that crash, I do know that it happens just as easily on my retrogaming rig booted straight into Win9x as it does on XP, and even on later hardware with Vista/7/8/10.

By the way, for Windows 9x era games like this, virtual machines don't really cut it. You're best off actually building a period-appropriate computer, complete with 3dfx and Aureal cards if your budget can swing it.

#4552146 - 01/13/21 07:42 PM Re: Anyone still play Eidos/Innerloop's JSF? [Re: Markdude]  
Joined: Jun 2005
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Reticuli Offline
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Reticuli  Offline
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Posts: 2,132
Dayton, OH, USA
No solutions to the CTDs or inability to see a modern joystick? Even immediately CTDs from mouse control instead of joystick. It particularly doesn't seem to like rendering the sky. Can't even use mouse or keyboard on Reshade after hitting Home.

Last edited by Reticuli; 01/13/21 08:37 PM.

The term "necroposting" was invented by a person with no social memory beyond a year. People with a similar hangup are those o.k. with the internet being transient vapor.

http://www.openfuelstandard.org/2011/12/methanol-wins-open-wager.html

Saitek X65 and X52, Glide, Winx3D, and GlovePIE Profiles http://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=reticuli&CatID=miscmisc

http://library.avsim.net/register.php

X52 + Silicone Grease = JOY stick
#4552464 - 01/15/21 07:28 PM Re: Anyone still play Eidos/Innerloop's JSF? [Re: Markdude]  
Joined: Dec 2010
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Viper1970 Offline
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Bavaria, near Munich
I can play it without any problems with my Retro-Rig, even with an USB-HOTAS. That's why I built this system. All those modern OS solutions may work, but most of the time they didn't. If you want to play old simulations from the 9X or sometimes even the XP era without any problems, you have to use a system which is capable to run those old OS.

You can even use things like nGlide (nGlide, even the latest version, runs without any problems on W9X - official min XP is recomended) or something comparable to get higher resolutions if the old system you use is powerful enough to run those emulations smooth, but you don't have all the drawbacks of the incompatibility when you try to run those old games on a new OS with workarounds.

I really can play all the old legends from back those days and most of them in a way you only could dream of back those days, like higher resolutions as originaly was possible with absolutely smooth framerates. For stubborn 3DFX titles there is a Voodoo SLI system as backup, but the highest resolution with this system is only 1024x768, so I mostly use nGlide if possible.

Last edited by Viper1970; 01/15/21 07:40 PM.

CockpitPC1: Ryzen9 5950X|64GB DDR4|512GB M2 SSD|2TB M2 SSD|Geforce RTX3090|Reverb G2|Win11Pro
CockpitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|32GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|2x Geforce GTX660 SLI|Win7Pro64
ComUnitPC1: Ryzen9 3900XT|32GB DDR4|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce RTX2070|Win11 Pro
ComUnitPC2: PhenomII X6 1100T|16GB DDR2|2x 2TB HDD|Geforce GTX660|Win7Pro64
ComUnitPC3: AthlonII X2 250|2GB DDR2|2TB HDD|Geforce 5950Ultra|2x VoodooII SLI|WinXPPro32&WinME
ComUnitPC4: K6-2+|768MB SDR|640GB HDD|Geforce 256DDR|VoodooI|Win98SE
#4557611 - 02/25/21 12:08 AM Re: Anyone still play Eidos/Innerloop's JSF? [Re: Markdude]  
Joined: Jun 2005
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Reticuli Offline
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Reticuli  Offline
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Posts: 2,132
Dayton, OH, USA
Software graphics mode in 1366x768 is working in Windows 7 64! Any higher resolution and the rendering causes a crash when pitched up towards the sky. I still need a glide wrapper to get to the first, main menu for some reason, though. I am using Whiteknight, PPJoy, and GlovePIE in LB2 and JSF to combine HOTAS and pedals into one virtual stick. Only issue now is the lack of antialiasing and the fact the Saitek profiler is nonfunctional so I will have to do the button mapping probably in GlovePIE, at least for LB2. I think JSF has a remapping thing in its top sim menu.


Edit:

After about an hour, I'm still getting a CTD.

Edit:

3dfx after some tweaking is completely stable for me even though it's mostly uglier. I believe software mode with big pixels (the option is sometimes reversed) was also more stable, though I don't know if it was as stable as 3dfx. Big pixel at 1080p looked even worse than 3dfx, though. 640x480 seems slightly better for dgvoodoo to scale.

Edit:

I spoke too soon, I can't even get 1024x768 stable in software rendering mode, which is a shame. 1080 or higher in software rendering would just be so amazing if it could last for more than a few minutes. Something about looking up at the sky when the graphics are not set to Big Pixels causes the CTD. BTW, Big Pixels and Black Lines (not sure who the hell would want black lines old school LCD emulation) are sometimes reversed, making on off and off on. Anyway, if you force everything to big pixels, you can use any software rendering resolution, but it looks awful. Maybe that would look ok if you had an 8000x6000 resolution monitor. I am rendering with dgvoodoo 3dFX right now at 3840x2160 and then letting dgvoodoo or NVIDIA scale it back down to 1920x1080. Looks passable this way, though I unfortunately have to turn terrain objects rendering to the lowest setting. Something about the JSF.exe trees that are slowing glide way down. I'm still fooling around with the NVIDIA settings to get it just right, but it's playable and looks halfway between software + big pixels and full-on high-res software with normal pixels... just minus trees and with large, chunky-looking HMD graphics, which is unfortunate. At least everything else is not chunky and thick in 3dfx. I'm not entirely certain if 640x480 or 800x600 are better settings. Some stuff looks better at 640, some at 800. The MFD buttons don't push accurately with the mouse in 640, though, so I'm now using 800 as the glide setting it's starting at. Wish I could find out where JSF's settings are located so I could hack that internal resolution. I will note that 3dfx's cockpit and displays seem clearer than software rendering even when software was at 1080p. Oh, and my issues with weapons before was related to the H key for hatch.

Is that FIXED folder with updated files being used or does it need to be copied/pasted to replace the old files in the individual folders?

Edit:

Freaky how good the yaw modeling of the choppers is. JSF's helo yaw is actually better than EECH! Not quite as good as Longbow 2's yaw modeling, but the coordinated turning is a fair attempt. Too bad you lose stick authority at lower power or the higher altitude you go, and too bad there's no ground effect or translational lift, both of which are easy as cake to code. Even fixed wing aircraft experience ground effect, so they should have had that already. With cockpits and rudimentary avionics with the rest of this above stuff easily added, they could have really had a winner. The software rendering mode with the glitches fixed would be magnificent with all these aircraft, a naval JSF, and the VTOL. Add in some AI for ground attack and more units, and EIDOS could have stayed in the sim arena. We need the source code! By the way, while the HMD and pin point lights only show up in the right eye, everything else in JSF seems able to render in stereoscopic. Need to find a way to disable those pin point lights, I guess, and just pretend the HMD is a monocle.


Last edited by Reticuli; 03/01/21 05:43 AM.

The term "necroposting" was invented by a person with no social memory beyond a year. People with a similar hangup are those o.k. with the internet being transient vapor.

http://www.openfuelstandard.org/2011/12/methanol-wins-open-wager.html

Saitek X65 and X52, Glide, Winx3D, and GlovePIE Profiles http://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=reticuli&CatID=miscmisc

http://library.avsim.net/register.php

X52 + Silicone Grease = JOY stick
#4561479 - 03/27/21 01:49 PM Re: Anyone still play Eidos/Innerloop's JSF? [Re: Reticuli]  
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,214
Avimimus Offline
Two-speed Five-Blade Fan
Avimimus  Offline
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Canada
A long time ago I remember trying to find out if it would be possible to obtain rights to the source code... I really wanted to add load-out screens and appropriate cockpits to the other flyable aircraft (there is an easter egg that lets you fly everything in the quick missions). There were so many really charming features in this sim and it is a real shame that it didn't see further development (e.g. the planned expansions). I've always assumed something went wrong with distribution or marketing etc.


"Never has so much been patched by so few for so many in so short a time." - W1ndy

Some odd mods

WWI aircraft guide

Survival!

#4561485 - 03/27/21 03:05 PM Re: Anyone still play Eidos/Innerloop's JSF? [Re: Markdude]  
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damson Offline
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Hiding in the bushes
Yeah, this game is quite a jewel. Rune Spaans (one of the devs) commented recently that the expansion was supposed to add new theatres and multiplayer functionality. From the art he did for the game I suspect that naval ops could be involved.

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