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#4049704 - 12/12/14 07:31 PM Ignorant but necessary question re. BOS  
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Stefnuts Offline
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Hi all,

I wanted to buy this game but I have multi-concerns:

Are the 2 extra planes REALLY worth the money & Do you think that their price is unrealistic & that 1C will lower the cost?

I hope that 1C actually not abandon this like they did Cliffs of Dover...which upset me that a modding team
had to "bring it up to snuff."

It's unreal that 1C would do this......I thought Oleg was near fanatical about things, can't understand it.

Thank you,
Stefnuts

Last edited by Stefnuts; 12/12/14 07:36 PM.
#4049710 - 12/12/14 07:39 PM Re: Ignorant but necessary question re. BOS [Re: Stefnuts]  
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Oleg is not affiliated with BoS

Any comparison between BoS and the IL-2 brand that came before it....is purely due to the marketing department of 1C and not because BoS attempts, let alone will ever be the successor to IL-2

If you want to make up your own mind regarding paying for more planes vs buying a cheaper and arguably much better product -- CLOD modded with TF

Then read the posts in the extended discussion area

There are plenty of comments here regarding what BoS does and does not do in comparison to what has come before it. My personal opinion (even as a "Founder") is that in its current state....it is not worth the money...spend less money on a modded TF CLOD and get much more back in terms of play.


AMD 8 core at 4.7Ghz
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Win 7 64bit
#4049716 - 12/12/14 07:48 PM Re: Ignorant but necessary question re. BOS [Re: Stefnuts]  
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bongodriver Offline
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Oleg was long gone before 1C pulled the plug on Cliffs of Dover too

#4049717 - 12/12/14 07:50 PM Re: Ignorant but necessary question re. BOS [Re: Stefnuts]  
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Revvin Offline
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My advice would be to wait a month or two. It's not a cheap game and December seems to be an important month for them after one of the developers outbursts about the potential to close the project if Metacritic scores did not improve (and they have got worse) and they mentioned they would talk more about the future of BoS in December so hopefully 1C hasn't already pulled he plug and we will know more soon.

#4049744 - 12/12/14 08:53 PM Re: Ignorant but necessary question re. BOS [Re: Stefnuts]  
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Stefnuts Offline
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Thanks folks!

I don't want a COD catastrophe again.

#4049772 - 12/12/14 10:12 PM Re: Ignorant but necessary question re. BOS [Re: Stefnuts]  
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Sokol1 Offline
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Quote:
Are the 2 extra planes REALLY worth the money & Do you think that their price is unrealistic & that 1C will lower the cost?


From multiplayer perspective maybe the Fw190 worth the money. The La5 no, what you do with him you do with Yak-1.

From singleplayer perspective no make difference, unnecessary.

Hardly its price will be reduced in short term, this would cause a gap between the price of the Standard and Premium versions - currently has a parity, in addition to being subject for "gold founders" moaning about. smile

Sokol1

#4050305 - 12/14/14 07:18 AM Re: Ignorant but necessary question re. BOS [Re: Stefnuts]  
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Charlie_SB Offline
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Originally Posted By: Stefnuts
Hi all,

I wanted to buy this game but I have multi-concerns:

Are the 2 extra planes REALLY worth the money & Do you think that their price is unrealistic & that 1C will lower the cost?



I think the extra planes are worth the money and given small niche market the price is very realistic. Even flight simulator developers have to eat and pay rent. I guess the real question here is, do you need the planes? I'd say no, you will easily spend 6 months learning to fly the already included planes. For me, the first time I fired up the engine in the La5 I'd had my money's worth, great rumble and feel in that plane.

Personally I prefer the more polished BOS over CLOD. I always think I like CLOD and then I start it up and get annoyed by the jerky graphics of the control yoke or get some stupid text box openend which I can't get rid of. Hopefully BOS will get some major single player improvements during the early part of next year and then it will become a full fledged historical combat flight simulator.

-C-

#4050411 - 12/14/14 03:33 PM Re: Ignorant but necessary question re. BOS [Re: Stefnuts]  
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Jaws2002 Offline
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Not worth it in it's current shape and at current ripoff price.
People are abandoning the game in droves for multiple reasons, the masses of casual gamers they thought will buy it didn't bite.
Customer reviews/score are lower than any other release in the entire il-2 history.
Wait and see what happens. I wouldn't be surprised if they pull the plug soon.

Last edited by Jaws2002; 12/14/14 03:40 PM.
#4050478 - 12/14/14 06:54 PM Re: Ignorant but necessary question re. BOS [Re: Stefnuts]  
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Charlie_SB Offline
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Not a chance in hell they will pull the plug. The product is stable and just needs a gameplay expert to set the course. If it is failing (which I don't think) we'd see some management changes and then it's new heading and flank speed ahead.

-C-

#4050819 - 12/15/14 01:09 PM Re: Ignorant but necessary question re. BOS [Re: Charlie_SB]  
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Wolf_Rider Offline
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Originally Posted By: Charlie_SB


Not a chance in hell they will pull the plug. ~

-C-




they might...


“Hypocrisy in anything whatever may deceive the cleverest and most penetrating man, but the least wide-awake of children recognizes it, and is revolted by it, however ingeniously it may be disguised.”

Leo Tolstoy, Anna Karenina
#4052116 - 12/17/14 04:38 PM Re: Ignorant but necessary question re. BOS [Re: Charlie_SB]  
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Itkovian Offline
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Originally Posted By: Charlie_SB
Not a chance in hell they will pull the plug. The product is stable and just needs a gameplay expert to set the course. If it is failing (which I don't think) we'd see some management changes and then it's new heading and flank speed ahead.

-C-


Agreed. BoS isn't CloD. It doens't need years of work to turn it into a good sim: it already _IS_ a good, stable sim with massive potential.

All that BoS it needs is Dservers (which they're releasing _very_ soon), and a mission builder (there's already one, but it's only released to a select few until it can be fully polished).

Once that's done, it doesn't really matter if they pull the plug, as the community can make all the content needed.

But like Charlie says, it's doubtful that they would. CloD was put down because the engine is a buggy mess that would take such an herculean effort to fix that it wasn't worth dumping money into anymore (I imagine it needed massive refactoring). And no, TF didn't actually fix it: they did a great job turning that mess into an enjoyable sim, but the flaws are still there (just well covered up by TF's awesome work). BoS has none of these issues.

#4052144 - 12/17/14 05:15 PM Re: Ignorant but necessary question re. BOS [Re: Stefnuts]  
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bisher Offline
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yes but BOS has little vision IMO. So it's difficult to flaw this

So the flaws of CLOD have been covered up by Team Fusion have they? Well let's look at the flaw of aircraft could not reaching altitude. How was that flaw covered up?

#4052151 - 12/17/14 05:20 PM Re: Ignorant but necessary question re. BOS [Re: Itkovian]  
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KodiakJac Offline
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Originally Posted By: Itkovian
Agreed. BoS isn't CloD. It doens't need years of work to turn it into a good sim: it already _IS_ a good, stable sim with massive potential.


Your choice to choose your own words, but this is why many of us feel compelled to respond to a universal claim rather than a claim like above that ends in "for me."

A number of players (including me) are having trouble with very low framerates and CTD's that are being reported on Steam, the BoS forum and here at SimHQ to name a few places.

I'm glad BoS is running well for you, but it seems to be having problems with some AMD GPU's and CPU's from the looks of reports where that seems to be a common denominator. But I'm no expert on that, and will remain hopeful that these problems will be corrected for me and others at some point.


Dogfighting is what you do "after" you drop your bombs and blow something up!
Can you say "JABO!" thumbsup
#4052156 - 12/17/14 05:26 PM Re: Ignorant but necessary question re. BOS [Re: bisher]  
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Itkovian Offline
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Originally Posted By: bisher
yes but BOS has little vision IMO. So it's difficult to flaw this

So the flaws of CLOD have been covered up have they. Well let's look at the flaw of aircraft could not reaching altitude. How was that flaw covered up?


I'm not sure how BoS lacks vision compared to other sims, to be honest. All I can think of is it lacks an immersive SP campaign, but that's something it shares with most sims out there sadly.

That said, it does have a pretty good dynamic mission generator for its campaign, so I think modders will be able to use that to good effect, to make some pretty awesome SP campaigns. Indeed, that may be the vision they had from the start, which is not unreasonable considering all the time they spent on the RoF career mode was practically wasted, since PWCG is the campaign of choice.

So I'm pretty hopeful we'll get a good immersive campaign mod or two for BoS. Heck, at least it HAS a dynamic campaign mode, that's a step up from most sims these days. And Veteran's campaign shows the great static campaigns that could be done, once the mission builder is released.

And yes, CLoD still has massive flaws, and the engine is a mess. TF did an awesome job taking what was there and tweaking/banging out a pretty durn good sim out of it (I know I love it, at least). But that's a far cry from actually having to wade in the code and changing the engine to do new things or fix bugs directly. There's a reason CloD was a disaster on release, and was never really fixed.

#4052161 - 12/17/14 05:32 PM Re: Ignorant but necessary question re. BOS [Re: Stefnuts]  
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bisher Offline
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You are arguing with yourself, I did not say CLOD does not still have flaws. I'm addressing your comment you made about Team Fusion covering up the flaws.

you avoided my point

#4052162 - 12/17/14 05:32 PM Re: Ignorant but necessary question re. BOS [Re: KodiakJac]  
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Itkovian Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bucksnort
Originally Posted By: Itkovian
Agreed. BoS isn't CloD. It doens't need years of work to turn it into a good sim: it already _IS_ a good, stable sim with massive potential.


Your choice to choose your own words, but this is why many of us feel compelled to respond to a universal claim rather than a claim like above that ends in "for me."

A number of players (including me) are having trouble with very low framerates and CTD's that are being reported on Steam, the BoS forum and here at SimHQ to name a few places.

I'm glad BoS is running well for you, but it seems to be having problems with some AMD GPU's and CPU's from the looks of reports where that seems to be a common denominator. But I'm no expert on that, and will remain hopeful that these problems will be corrected for me and others at some point.



Yeah, that's gotta suck, and I'm sorry to hear that. I had the CTDs for a while, and that was fixed.

That said, let's not forget that for PC gaming stabiity is never absolute, it's always a matter of proportions. There's always going to be people with stability issues, the question is how many. If it's a small minority, then the product is very stable by PC standards (compared to CLoD on release, for example).

I do hope those issues are fixed soon, however. But that doesn't change the fact that it is a good stable sim, and is certainly not going to need years of work to be made functional (since it's already there, even if it needs some fixes to work on some systems, it's not a buggy mess by any stretch of the imagination).

#4052170 - 12/17/14 05:40 PM Re: Ignorant but necessary question re. BOS [Re: bisher]  
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Itkovian Offline
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Originally Posted By: bisher
You are arguing with yourself, I did not say CLOD does not still have flaws. I'm addressing your comment you made about Team Fusion covering up the flaws.

you avoided my point


Well, more like I misunderstood your point. And still do, to be honest.

What exactly do you mean? Are you saying the flaw is still there? Or that TF fixed it (or failed to)?

I say "covered" to explain how the "fixes" were done... TF didn't go in the source code and fix the actual bugs, but instead tweaked ressources and definitions and the likes in order to get better results. In short, they did what modders can do without access to the source code. The bugs and problems with the engine still exist, they just found ways to reduce/remove the problems they caused (how, I don't really know).

Compare this to what the BoB2 modding team did: they had access to the source code itself, and were able to directly fix issues with the sim game.

A good example is the AI: TF "fixed" the CloD AI by tweaking its settings and minimizing the demented behavior we saw in the official version... but that behavior is still there, and the AI code is still terrible. For BoB2, the AI issues were fixed in the code itself, which is why the BoB2 AI is amongst the best out there (because modders spent years refining it).

Hopefully this makes more sense, now. smile

#4053175 - 12/19/14 01:30 PM Re: Ignorant but necessary question re. BOS [Re: Wolf_Rider]  
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Originally Posted By: Wolf_Rider
Originally Posted By: Charlie_SB


Not a chance in hell they will pull the plug. ~

-C-




they might...


whenpigsfly


R.E.D. (Retired Extremely Dangerous
#4054196 - 12/21/14 09:39 PM Re: Ignorant but necessary question re. BOS [Re: Wolf_Rider]  
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Originally Posted By: Jaws2002
Not worth it in it's current shape and at current ripoff price.
People are abandoning the game in droves for multiple reasons, the masses of casual gamers they thought will buy it didn't bite.
Customer reviews/score are lower than any other release in the entire il-2 history.
Wait and see what happens. I wouldn't be surprised if they pull the plug soon.


I would. I'd be shocked.

Where are you getting this? From what I have read the lowest reviews are on metacritic.. Every official reputable game review I have read gives BoS a rating between 7 and 9 more or less.

Originally Posted By: Wolf_Rider
Originally Posted By: Charlie_SB

Not a chance in hell they will pull the plug. ~
-C-

they might...


Dream on. Not a chance.. sales are good in spite of the campaign by some to turn people away from BoS because regardless to whatever other flaws it may have BoS works for most of the people who have bought it.. and it is still getting ongoing support..

It is funny how so many people went on and on about all the "haters" who destroyed CoD and hastened it's demise.. but in this case the "haters" (I don't care for the term just using it because that was the term used elsewhere by supporters of CoD who were livid that people had complaints) and their rhetoric does not seem to be having the same effect.

Hmmmmmm maybe it's because the thing that had the biggest impact on the demise of CoD was... CoD. I am just speculating here.. I mean... since they might pull the plug on BoS...


Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
#4054197 - 12/21/14 09:42 PM Re: Ignorant but necessary question re. BOS [Re: Stefnuts]  
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bongodriver Offline
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The thing that had the biggest impact on the demise of CloD was 1C.

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