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#4048665 - 12/10/14 06:44 PM Re: The Pirate Bay has set sail for Costa Rica [Re: Desert Eagle]  
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The only thing I use TPB for is to download ISOs of games I own and have a proof of purchase for, but for one reason or another the retail disc or diskettes are no longer accessible (scratches, cracked disc etc etc.)


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#4048668 - 12/10/14 06:47 PM Re: The Pirate Bay has set sail for Costa Rica [Re: Cold_Flying]  
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Originally Posted By: Cold_Flying
Originally Posted By: Force10
One thing that has always puzzled me in this controversy is the Public Library system. Here is a local government run institution that allows you to check out movies, audio cd's, and books for free. What is in place to stop somebody from checking out a bunch of music CD's and ripping them into their iTunes library? What about the writer that has his/her bestseller available for folks to go down and bring it home and read it free of charge?


Look at it this way - you often no longer own what you buy. Property rights have gone the way of the Dodo. Read the fine print on media sales and you will see how little control you are allowed to have over things you paid for and paid taxes on.

So when the argument is put forth that you stole something when you downloaded it, it should also be noted that even if you paid for it, you might not actually own it.

Welcome to the future. cheers


That's pretty much the idea behind what I meant when I mentioned software on specific devices. When we buy a game we're not buying the source code or IP, we're buying a license to use the software as stated. We own a lot less than we may think we do!


Scully: Victim died of multiple stab wounds.
Mulder: *throws her a file* Ever heard of the knife alien?
#4048670 - 12/10/14 06:49 PM Re: The Pirate Bay has set sail for Costa Rica [Re: Cold_Flying]  
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Originally Posted By: Cold_Flying


Look at it this way - you often no longer own what you buy. Property rights have gone the way of the Dodo. Read the fine print on media sales and you will see how little control you are allowed to have over things you paid for and paid taxes on.

So when the argument is put forth that you stole something when you downloaded it, it should also be noted that even if you paid for it, you might not actually own it.

Welcome to the future. cheers


People developed a lazy way of thinking that because they could record songs off the radio, it was legal to do it. It was the ease which it could be done developed into this way of thinking. The owners of the songs could not really practically find much remedy to locate and sue everyone out there doing it, so by and large it wasn't an issue for that reason.

In the contemporary age, IP holders are now faced with ever more blatant schemes which share content across the Internet- which is traceable, which can turn up large rings involved in piracy. And now law enforcement and IP holders are fighting it- but people's attitudes are still back in the radio days. "It was always ok then, what's the deal." It was never ok insomuch as no one could do anything about it.

#4048672 - 12/10/14 06:50 PM Re: The Pirate Bay has set sail for Costa Rica [Re: Force10]  
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Originally Posted By: Force10
One thing that has always puzzled me in this controversy is the Public Library system. Here is a local government run institution that allows you to check out movies, audio cd's, and books for free. What is in place to stop somebody from checking out a bunch of music CD's and ripping them into their iTunes library? What about the writer that has his/her bestseller available for folks to go down and bring it home and read it free of charge?
I believe that public libraries pay some kind of fee to the copywright holders in order to carry their CD's and DVD's in their collections. It's definitely not free for the libraries.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4048680 - 12/10/14 07:00 PM Re: The Pirate Bay has set sail for Costa Rica [Re: Mechanus]  
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Originally Posted By: Mechanus

People developed a lazy way of thinking that because they could record songs off the radio, it was legal to do it. It was the ease which it could be done developed into this way of thinking. The owners of the songs could not really practically find much remedy to locate and sue everyone out there doing it, so by and large it wasn't an issue for that reason.

In the contemporary age, IP holders are now faced with ever more blatant schemes which share content across the Internet- which is traceable, which can turn up large rings involved in piracy. And now law enforcement and IP holders are fighting it- but people's attitudes are still back in the radio days. "It was always ok then, what's the deal." It was never ok insomuch as no one could do anything about it.


You are insinuating, somewhat, that it is the ease of doing a thing that makes it illegal. That is an argument that may not stand.

As an example, saving videos and music from youtube is the easiest thing in the world to do. Is that piracy? Youtube hosts megatons of copyrighted stuff and I assume, safely I think, that watching something on youtube will not earn me a legal sanction. Am I allowed to watch it a 1000 times legally, but am in violation of the law if I record it and watch it without their service on the 1001 try?

What vaporous micron-thick line in the sand must we observe and pay heed to in order to avoid fines and jail.


Question everything!
#4048685 - 12/10/14 07:10 PM Re: The Pirate Bay has set sail for Costa Rica [Re: Desert Eagle]  
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No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it is the ease of doing an illegal thing which tends to make the attitude that it isn't illegal, or that it should not be illegal. This is generally true of anything, not just where it concerns piracy of movies, games and music. Jaywalking is a good example. Illegal, but people do it often not thinking about it being illegal. It's easy to do and get away with, it tends to cultivate a mindset of its own contrary to the law. Someone gets caught and protests because of the hundreds of others who get away with it, so it must not be a 'real' law. Murder on the other hand- tends not to do that.


#4048686 - 12/10/14 07:14 PM Re: The Pirate Bay has set sail for Costa Rica [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted By: Force10
One thing that has always puzzled me in this controversy is the Public Library system. Here is a local government run institution that allows you to check out movies, audio cd's, and books for free. What is in place to stop somebody from checking out a bunch of music CD's and ripping them into their iTunes library? What about the writer that has his/her bestseller available for folks to go down and bring it home and read it free of charge?
I believe that public libraries pay some kind of fee to the copywright holders in order to carry their CD's and DVD's in their collections. It's definitely not free for the libraries.


I guess it would be interesting to find out how much the fee is that is paid that allows unlimited free usage to the entire public.


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#4048688 - 12/10/14 07:16 PM Re: The Pirate Bay has set sail for Costa Rica [Re: Desert Eagle]  
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Radio stations pay fees to use the songs they play. It's just that it probably is calculated as worthwhile to the song owners because it's a form of promotion, they accept the loss of potential sales to people recording the songs for the exposure and for what little money they can get from licensing fees.

#4048691 - 12/10/14 07:21 PM Re: The Pirate Bay has set sail for Costa Rica [Re: Desert Eagle]  
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At what point does the ease of doing a thing, the efficacy of which that thing may be done, and the prevalence of the thing being done all conspire to render the notion that the illegal thing should perhaps not be illegal anymore?

If you cannot stop a thing from being done, en masse, every day, rapidly and efficiently and repeatedly, and without observable consequence or breakdown in civil order, at what point do we say... okay, go ahead.

Are we (soon) at the point where the cure is worse than the disease?


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#4048693 - 12/10/14 07:26 PM Re: The Pirate Bay has set sail for Costa Rica [Re: Desert Eagle]  
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I would imagine the second you say downloading movies, games, and all other media is legal you'll see a massive drop in the enthusiasm for future development in those fields. Legal pirate bays would be popping up overnight to streamline the process. Hell, if I had the web development skills I'd be jumping on the bandwagon too.


Scully: Victim died of multiple stab wounds.
Mulder: *throws her a file* Ever heard of the knife alien?
#4048696 - 12/10/14 07:29 PM Re: The Pirate Bay has set sail for Costa Rica [Re: Desert Eagle]  
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I can't really answer that, I'm afraid. That's too deep a question. I jaywalk all the time, there are things that I think are too heavy handed or are illegal only for the reasons of inertia or to put money in the coffers of the state and employ people backed up with irrational fears and mindsets completely disdainful of facts- the absurdly immoral and ineffective War on Drugs. But at the same time, I wouldn't say I would necessarily want a game that I wrote being distributed without my royalties due, either.

#4048699 - 12/10/14 07:34 PM Re: The Pirate Bay has set sail for Costa Rica [Re: Peally]  
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Originally Posted By: Peally
I would imagine the second you say downloading movies, games, and all other media is legal you'll see a massive drop in the enthusiasm for future development in those fields. Legal pirate bays would be popping up overnight to streamline the process. Hell, if I had the web development skills I'd be jumping on the bandwagon too.


It's going to happen. It is happening. As Corey Doctorow said, this moment, right now, today, is as hard as it will ever be to copy something. It's only going to get easier and faster.

As it stand now, you can get a decent 720p version of a new movie on a fast connection in minutes. You can get a TV show, literally, in seconds. What happens in five-years?


Question everything!
#4048704 - 12/10/14 07:37 PM Re: The Pirate Bay has set sail for Costa Rica [Re: Mechanus]  
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Originally Posted By: Mechanus
I can't really answer that, I'm afraid. That's too deep a question.


That was my initial point pages back.

To look at the question of piracy as a one-dimensional issue, as some may want to, is to take the place of the radio personality complaining that TV will kill his employment. Failure is guaranteed.


Question everything!
#4048706 - 12/10/14 07:39 PM Re: The Pirate Bay has set sail for Costa Rica [Re: Desert Eagle]  
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Couldn't tell you what the future holds, otherwise I'd win the lottery and all SimHQers would be living on my own privately owned banana republic somewhere. I will say if I showed up to work tomorrow as an IT guy and my boss told me "we're hiring you out for free to whoever we want. We probably won't be able to pay you anymore" I'd flip the bird and walk out. Take away any ability to make a profit and an entire industry will die overnight.

I sincerely hope that doesn't happen as I enjoy games and movies, and for that reason I really don't care how bad the fees are when Pirate Bay employees get hit. Considering the lost revenue compared to a grandma swiping a candy bar at a gas station the fees and repercussions are in some way quite justified.


Scully: Victim died of multiple stab wounds.
Mulder: *throws her a file* Ever heard of the knife alien?
#4048709 - 12/10/14 07:45 PM Re: The Pirate Bay has set sail for Costa Rica [Re: Desert Eagle]  
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If you have a break-in and your CDs, DVDs and boxed games are taken, who's property has been stolen? The IP holder or yours? How will the police view it?



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4048711 - 12/10/14 07:46 PM Re: The Pirate Bay has set sail for Costa Rica [Re: Desert Eagle]  
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Yours, they stole your legally purchased licenses and install media wink


Scully: Victim died of multiple stab wounds.
Mulder: *throws her a file* Ever heard of the knife alien?
#4048712 - 12/10/14 07:47 PM Re: The Pirate Bay has set sail for Costa Rica [Re: Peally]  
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Originally Posted By: Peally
Yours, they stole your legally purchased licenses and install media wink


Correct, they store YOUR property. wink



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4048713 - 12/10/14 07:48 PM Re: The Pirate Bay has set sail for Costa Rica [Re: Desert Eagle]  
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Well, that's up to the content owners. There's freeware out there, there's songs out there available for free, but that's up to the election of the content owners if they want to promote their works that way. This is a case where I couldn't ask someone to do something that I wouldn't necessarily do. Even if you say you wouldn't mind your works distributed in the public domain, you can't really speak for someone else.

#4048714 - 12/10/14 07:51 PM Re: The Pirate Bay has set sail for Costa Rica [Re: MarkG]  
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Originally Posted By: MarkG
If you have a break-in and your CDs, DVDs and boxed games are taken, who's property has been stolen? The IP holder or yours? How will the police view it?


The media is the stolen property, its dollar value (so long as the intent wasn't to copy and distribute the intellectual content, that's a separate crime). If it was breaking and entering just to steal a few dollars worth of movies, the worth of the movies isn't going to be the serious issue the thief is looking at it.

#4048719 - 12/10/14 07:59 PM Re: The Pirate Bay has set sail for Costa Rica [Re: Desert Eagle]  
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Aaaaarrr!!



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