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#4045984 - 12/05/14 03:17 PM Re: DCS: World December Newsletter [Re: GrayGhost]  
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Originally Posted By: GrayGhost
... and then complain how you have to keep changing the monitor settings for other games smile


Pretty sure you can run custom color profiles by .exe


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#4046003 - 12/05/14 03:50 PM Re: DCS: World December Newsletter [Re: EricJ]  
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Originally Posted By: EricJ
You figure there should be a limit, people will sell their stuff for like a hundred dollars for a single campaign that is well, as said basic. I figure like a couple bucks should be the max, but it's quality versus price and agreed, I'd rather not buy a campaign when I can make my own.


I think the market will ensure a $100 campaign goes un-used.


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#4046010 - 12/05/14 04:03 PM Re: DCS: World December Newsletter [Re: AggressorBLUE]  
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Originally Posted By: AggressorBLUE
Originally Posted By: EricJ
You figure there should be a limit, people will sell their stuff for like a hundred dollars for a single campaign that is well, as said basic. I figure like a couple bucks should be the max, but it's quality versus price and agreed, I'd rather not buy a campaign when I can make my own.


I think the market will ensure a $100 campaign goes un-used.


I would like to think so but sadly I don't.

Look at the Dec Newsletter. With the exception that EDGE "MIGHT" make a dec launch everything else was a 'we are delayed' announcement and there are tons of people praising ED for the great news.

The FS community is starved and a hungry man will pay anything for food.

BTW, I highly doubt we will see EDGE before March, ED pretty much guaranteed that with their , 'if we don't make Dec, it will be Jan/Feb timeframe'. The VEAO guys for example were supposed to release last Feb and they still have not released their aircraft even in Beta form, it is in preview form only. They are now stuck on copy protection. jeez, you would think that since ED and LN and Belsimtek have releaed modules that VEAO would be able to figure out the copy protection scheme.

I made the mistake of buying the Hawk and frankly the aircraft feels 'flat', it is no where near the standard of the Mig 21 and just feels like something that was thrown together last minute.

Last edited by Mustang60348; 12/05/14 04:05 PM.
#4046013 - 12/05/14 04:10 PM Re: DCS: World December Newsletter [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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Edited

Last edited by SkateZilla; 12/05/14 04:11 PM.

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#4046015 - 12/05/14 04:11 PM Re: DCS: World December Newsletter [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
The HAWK is out in preview/beta form, check your facts.


Check your reading skills.

#4046016 - 12/05/14 04:12 PM Re: DCS: World December Newsletter [Re: Mustang60348]  
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Originally Posted By: Mustang60348
Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
The HAWK is out in preview/beta form, check your facts.


Check your reading skills.


Just did see above, lol


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#4046023 - 12/05/14 04:26 PM Re: DCS: World December Newsletter [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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One time, just once, I'd love for a developer to look at their expected completion date and say "Ok, let's add X months onto that and announce that as our public release date." Then, if they finished before that announced date, release it early and blow everybody's mind.

#4046030 - 12/05/14 04:41 PM Re: DCS: World December Newsletter [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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One company tried that and decided to keep developing past the internal date and ended up oover developong which made the game worse by time it was released.


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#4046142 - 12/05/14 07:35 PM Re: DCS: World December Newsletter [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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Several thousand companies tried it, succeeded, and continually keep on doing it. I'd settle for ED succeeding just once on a release date. You never know they (and the customers) might just like it!


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4047558 - 12/08/14 04:48 PM Re: DCS: World December Newsletter [Re: Mustang60348]  
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Originally Posted By: Mustang60348
Originally Posted By: AggressorBLUE
Originally Posted By: EricJ
You figure there should be a limit, people will sell their stuff for like a hundred dollars for a single campaign that is well, as said basic. I figure like a couple bucks should be the max, but it's quality versus price and agreed, I'd rather not buy a campaign when I can make my own.


I think the market will ensure a $100 campaign goes un-used.


I would like to think so but sadly I don't.

Look at the Dec Newsletter. With the exception that EDGE "MIGHT" make a dec launch everything else was a 'we are delayed' announcement and there are tons of people praising ED for the great news.

The FS community is starved and a hungry man will pay anything for food.

BTW, I highly doubt we will see EDGE before March, ED pretty much guaranteed that with their , 'if we don't make Dec, it will be Jan/Feb timeframe'. The VEAO guys for example were supposed to release last Feb and they still have not released their aircraft even in Beta form, it is in preview form only. They are now stuck on copy protection. jeez, you would think that since ED and LN and Belsimtek have releaed modules that VEAO would be able to figure out the copy protection scheme.

I made the mistake of buying the Hawk and frankly the aircraft feels 'flat', it is no where near the standard of the Mig 21 and just feels like something that was thrown together last minute.


A fair point.

And yeah, ED seems to systematically underestimate the logistical steps such as copy protection and distribution. Seems they've also got something bassakwards with the licensing, as I've flown Apaches, F-16s, Skyhawks (the Prop and the jet!) and Hueys in other sims, yet here all the sudden there's an issue.

It's also amazing that the licensing issues show up during LATE development. It's face-palm worthy that some devs don't check these things out BEFORE developing an aircraft.

Last edited by AggressorBLUE; 12/08/14 04:51 PM.

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#4047635 - 12/08/14 06:32 PM Re: DCS: World December Newsletter [Re: AggressorBLUE]  
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Originally Posted By: AggressorBLUE
Originally Posted By: EricJ
You figure there should be a limit, people will sell their stuff for like a hundred dollars for a single campaign that is well, as said basic. I figure like a couple bucks should be the max, but it's quality versus price and agreed, I'd rather not buy a campaign when I can make my own.


I think the market will ensure a $100 campaign goes un-used.

Even if there was a market for a $100 campaign (either because of a low supply or it was just that good), the question is whether the price point would make the developer the most money. After all, fewer people will buy a $100 campaign than would buy a $5 campaign. Without factoring cost per unit for DRM, selling 20 copies at $5 is equivalent to 1 copy at $100 since all the work has already been done, and I can imagine that you would sell a lot more than 20 copies at $5, whereas 1 copy at $100 might be about right.

The supply/demand curve will work itself out, as always when it is free to do so.


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#4047646 - 12/08/14 06:46 PM Re: DCS: World December Newsletter [Re: AggressorBLUE]  
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Originally Posted By: AggressorBLUE
And yeah, ED seems to systematically underestimate the logistical steps such as copy protection and distribution. Seems they've also got something bassakwards with the licensing, as I've flown Apaches, F-16s, Skyhawks (the Prop and the jet!) and Hueys in other sims, yet here all the sudden there's an issue.

It's also amazing that the licensing issues show up during LATE development. It's face-palm worthy that some devs don't check these things out BEFORE developing an aircraft.


Other than the Huey (which was the first out of the gate and therefore uncharted territory), what examples do you have of devs waiting until the last minute to get requisite licensing?

With modeling DCS aircraft to a degree never before realized in a commercial entertainment product, licensing is required as the developers are using more than just the airframe and cockpit for "artistic" purposes. When you have a sim that models not just electrical and avionics, but the signal flow of the aircraft's system suite, you get into a company's intellectual property. BST was blindsided by this, but made it work. VEAO saw this coming with the Hawk, but was involved in grueling negotiations with BAE because the closest agreement BAE could think of was a manufacturing license (this should say something about the fidelity of systems modeling). Again, this was uncharted territory. In fact, I highly recommend Episode 3 of the 476th VFG Podcast, in which PMan of VEAO is interviewed and this very issue is discussed in detail.

VEAO is actually known to be proactive in licensing, and has since scrapped the A-4C and Agusta-Westland Apache before really getting started because they could not come to terms with the IP holders regarding licensing.


-Home Fries

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty."
- Robert A. Heinlein

The average naval aviator, despite the sometimes swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy, and caring. These feelings just don't involve anyone else.

#4047675 - 12/08/14 07:46 PM Re: DCS: World December Newsletter [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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Pretty sure the Apache got cancelled for public release because the MoD denied it.

#4048076 - 12/09/14 03:19 PM Re: DCS: World December Newsletter [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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I'll take your word for it, but the point remains that VEAO has been proactive in licensing and all of the other legal requirements.


-Home Fries

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty."
- Robert A. Heinlein

The average naval aviator, despite the sometimes swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy, and caring. These feelings just don't involve anyone else.

#4048138 - 12/09/14 05:18 PM Re: DCS: World December Newsletter [Re: HomeFries]  
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Originally Posted By: HomeFries
Originally Posted By: AggressorBLUE
And yeah, ED seems to systematically underestimate the logistical steps such as copy protection and distribution. Seems they've also got something bassakwards with the licensing, as I've flown Apaches, F-16s, Skyhawks (the Prop and the jet!) and Hueys in other sims, yet here all the sudden there's an issue.

It's also amazing that the licensing issues show up during LATE development. It's face-palm worthy that some devs don't check these things out BEFORE developing an aircraft.


Other than the Huey (which was the first out of the gate and therefore uncharted territory), what examples do you have of devs waiting until the last minute to get requisite licensing?

With modeling DCS aircraft to a degree never before realized in a commercial entertainment product, licensing is required as the developers are using more than just the airframe and cockpit for "artistic" purposes. When you have a sim that models not just electrical and avionics, but the signal flow of the aircraft's system suite, you get into a company's intellectual property. BST was blindsided by this, but made it work. VEAO saw this coming with the Hawk, but was involved in grueling negotiations with BAE because the closest agreement BAE could think of was a manufacturing license (this should say something about the fidelity of systems modeling). Again, this was uncharted territory. In fact, I highly recommend Episode 3 of the 476th VFG Podcast, in which PMan of VEAO is interviewed and this very issue is discussed in detail.

VEAO is actually known to be proactive in licensing, and has since scrapped the A-4C and Agusta-Westland Apache before really getting started because they could not come to terms with the IP holders regarding licensing.



Its also helpful to have a working proof of concept ready.
which is why the would develope a project partially before going for a license.


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#4048172 - 12/09/14 06:38 PM Re: DCS: World December Newsletter [Re: scrim]  
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Originally Posted By: scrim
Pretty sure the Apache got cancelled for public release because the MoD denied it.


Why would the UK have had a say in a sim of a US helo? They weren't making the UK version AFAIK.



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#4048199 - 12/09/14 06:58 PM Re: DCS: World December Newsletter [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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It was the Westland they were contemplating doing IIRC.

Nate

#4048207 - 12/09/14 07:05 PM Re: DCS: World December Newsletter [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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And in cooperation with the MoD, like the A-10C and the National Guard IIRC.

#4048226 - 12/09/14 07:30 PM Re: DCS: World December Newsletter [Re: Nate]  
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Originally Posted By: Nate
It was the Westland they were contemplating doing IIRC.

Nate


Oh, bad idea.

That's like making the Bf109 module based on the Spanish licensed models.



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4048324 - 12/09/14 10:14 PM Re: DCS: World December Newsletter [Re: Silver_Dragon]  
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To me If ED is not going to charge us for the 2.0 than they can take as much time as necessary.

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