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#4044701 - 12/03/14 02:04 AM Re: Observer/Gunner question [Re: busdriver]  
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vonBaur Offline
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Let me amend that last sentence..."modified" rather than "corrected".


SALUTE TO ALL!
#4044852 - 12/03/14 01:30 PM Re: Observer/Gunner question [Re: busdriver]  
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Yes good isn't it Observers have some intelligence - they will try to avoid firing into wings, tails, wires, props, your head etc - we specially made that behaviour smile

No the guns need to be where they are on the Aviatik for various reasons. Yes the have slightly different coverage but it's not renowned as the a fine gun platform.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4044887 - 12/03/14 02:35 PM Re: Observer/Gunner question [Re: busdriver]  
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And don't forget there were some gunner 'aces' especially in Brisfits. It must have been dangerous to take them on because often the pilot and the gunner were both aces. I believe the top scoring gunner had a score of 15 but don't quote me.

Here is a link - the top-scoring gunner had 39 victories!

[url=http://jpgleize.perso.neuf.fr/aces/ww1brobs.htm][/url] http://jpgleize.perso.neuf.fr/aces/ww1brobs.htm


DID Campaign URL: http://www.attrill.co.za/NewWOFFcampaign.htm

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#4046435 - 12/06/14 04:16 AM Re: Observer/Gunner question [Re: busdriver]  
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busdriver Offline
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LOL I surrender. The latest iteration of enemy gunner marksmanship is killing me ALL...THE...TIME. Time for me to rethink the notion of trying to kill a two-seater. duh

Got into a fight with Rumpler over Alsace, we started out in a two circle fight (he turned right and I turned right at the merge making our flight paths looks like a figure 8 if viewed from above). After two passes like this I decided to make it a one circle fight and lead turn over the top of him as he passed me nose low on my left. The [Rumpler] gunner put a couple bullet holes in the fabric of my N17 as I was crossing their high six. Since I didn't see smoke trails I checked my own six just to be sure I hadn't managed to trap a bandit back there. It took me a couple of potatoes (you know...one potato, two potato...ah there he is) to reacquire a Tally. The Rumpler was headed downhill, maneuvering in a right turn back underneath me, I continued my left hand turn spiraling down above him. I circled once and as we got to opposite sides of the circle, he leveled out, and I'm now back in his four o'clock high. I'm just inside 300 yards pulling my nose toward him, imagine my chagrin,ar15 "thwup thwup thwup thwup...uggggghhhhh" heavy breathing and a red screen out of control from 270+ yards.

I'll let you know how I do with Rear Guns: Less Acc selected. duel

Last edited by busdriver; 12/06/14 04:49 AM. Reason: my bandit was a Rumpler
#4046442 - 12/06/14 04:27 AM Re: Observer/Gunner question [Re: busdriver]  
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Wolfstriked Offline
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I am soo confused by your post Busdriver.Where you in an N17 fighting a Rumpler?And where did the Roland come from?Could you post a video of your attempts at fighting the 2seaters?

#4046453 - 12/06/14 04:58 AM Re: Observer/Gunner question [Re: Wolfstriked]  
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busdriver Offline
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Mea culpa...the enemy aircraft were Rumplers, not Rolands. I have no idea why I typed Roland. Going forward I'll stick to typing "bandit."

I don't do YouTube, and I can't find a track recorder in WOFF...got any other suggestions? I'm all ears.

#4046484 - 12/06/14 05:58 AM Re: Observer/Gunner question [Re: busdriver]  
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Wolfstriked Offline
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LOL that made me laugh dude! Rumplers,Rolands,GOTHA's WE ARE UNDER ATTACK!!Sorry I have a few beers in me....

As for advice you need to stay moving.When you are flying towards enemy do not just fly towards them but jink and dive and roll and forget about pointing your nose at them and firing away and instead think of it as getting just a few bullets into them and rolling away to live another day.Right after my attack I then dive and then climb and then dive in a matter of what feels like a second.

#4046495 - 12/06/14 06:39 AM Re: Observer/Gunner question [Re: Wolfstriked]  
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Originally Posted By: Wolfstriked
LOL that made me laugh dude! Rumplers,Rolands,GOTHA's WE ARE UNDER ATTACK!!Sorry I have a few beers in me....

As for advice you need to stay moving.When you are flying towards enemy do not just fly towards them but jink and dive and roll and forget about pointing your nose at them and firing away and instead think of it as getting just a few bullets into them and rolling away to live another day.Right after my attack I then dive and then climb and then dive in a matter of what feels like a second.



They also regularly hit me when I'm maneuvering at a high angle off. If I'm not in a complete blind spot, I just expect to take a few bullets and hope that it's not to the face.

While a few bullet holes is to be expected, the AI gunners do tend to hit your pilot very quickly when they open up. In contrast, I have a helluva time killing a crewman. I've been having a campaign hit rate average of 19-20 percent lately. Does my shooting suck that much? wacky


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#4046499 - 12/06/14 06:46 AM Re: Observer/Gunner question [Re: busdriver]  
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Wolfstriked Offline
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Its not easy and that is why there were aces that flew the skies. But we do not die when we get a bullet to the face though so it allows us to practice the art of getting shot in the face over and over again!@...... biggrin

#4046519 - 12/06/14 08:55 AM Re: Observer/Gunner question [Re: Wolfstriked]  
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busdriver Offline
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Originally Posted By: Wolfstriked
As for advice you need to stay moving.When you are flying towards enemy do not just fly towards them but jink and dive and roll and forget about pointing your nose at them and firing away and instead think of it as getting just a few bullets into them and rolling away to live another day.Right after my attack I then dive and then climb and then dive in a matter of what feels like a second.

I guess I didn't draw a very clear word picture. When I was gunned I was not straight and level, I was in approx 125 degrees of left bank slicing down toward the bandit. I was moving my N17 around the sky the entire time. Like Nefaro these gunners are cleaning my clock.

[Edit: the following observation uses the word "you" in the generic sense and not one individual. It is meant to convey the basics of a RL guns jink and not a criticism of an individual's techniques. I apologize to Wolfstriked for the confusion.]

And if I may offer an observation. A common error of RL fighter pilots learning to perform their gun defense AKA their "guns jink" is not allowing enough time for their airplane to move in one plane of motion before trying a different move. Think of it this way. If you rapidly try to dive then climb and then dive in a second, you are simply "stirring the stick" as we'd say. You think you're making yourself a difficult target, but really the airplane hasn't traveled very far through the air. Viewed from the attackers cockpit, your airplane might be rotating about an axis, but it remains in the same relative position. At a nominal 100 MPH in a WWI fighter in a turning fight, you're only traveling about 150 FPS (just using round numbers). Rapidly pumping the stick 3 times a second might displace you 50 feet out of plane. The take away...or not....when performing your guns defense set and hold the stick for "one or two potatoes" before going to your next move. That worked really well in the Phantom and the Viper, of course YMMV.

Last edited by busdriver; 12/06/14 06:22 PM.
#4046668 - 12/06/14 04:44 PM Re: Observer/Gunner question [Re: busdriver]  
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Wolfstriked Offline
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I may have exaggerated the 3 times per second. neaner

#4046709 - 12/06/14 06:29 PM Re: Observer/Gunner question [Re: Wolfstriked]  
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busdriver Offline
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Originally Posted By: Wolfstriked
I may have exaggerated the 3 times per second. neaner

I have edited my post to clarify my intent (hopefully to your satisfaction, and assure you no malice or snark was intended).

#4046716 - 12/06/14 07:26 PM Re: Observer/Gunner question [Re: busdriver]  
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You pointed out that my wording was off is how I took it.But I accept your apology and you can sleep biggrin in knowing my feelings have not been hurt. thumbsup

#4046756 - 12/06/14 08:59 PM Re: Observer/Gunner question [Re: busdriver]  
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Wolfstriked Offline
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Busdriver,here is a video attacking Gothas'.I do get a bullet thru the left shoulder but I survive to live another day.Video has me make some mistakes and almost pay with my life at the end. copter

Its exhilarating to attack 2seaters now and also to fly them.I love the new stats on them even if it means I probably wont survive a month at war. wacky



Last edited by Wolfstriked; 12/06/14 09:52 PM.
#4046785 - 12/06/14 09:52 PM Re: Observer/Gunner question [Re: busdriver]  
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#4047297 - 12/08/14 02:17 AM Re: Observer/Gunner question [Re: busdriver]  
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busdriver Offline
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I solved my problem of Jerry Observer/Gunner snipers. I simply selected the Less Acc option in Workshops. Did not have to select the Invincible option. thumbsup

Last edited by busdriver; 12/08/14 02:17 AM.
#4047341 - 12/08/14 05:33 AM Re: Observer/Gunner question [Re: busdriver]  
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Wolfstriked Offline
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I wonder if reara gunners had normal accuracy that changes to lower accuracy when being fired upon would work a bit here.I just feel that if I was a gunner and super exposed as they were and being fired upon I would lose my courage and not be able to fire as well.But in a plane and on the attack you feel safer in a way as you have a huge engine block covering most of your body. stirthepot

#4047583 - 12/08/14 05:02 PM Re: Observer/Gunner question [Re: busdriver]  
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vonBaur Offline
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Of course everyone's different, Wolfstriked. But I think you would quickly realize that your only defense in that situation would be to kill your opponent before he can kill you and therefore focus even more intently on your aim. Therein may lie the difference between those who survived and those who didn't. A healthy dose of luck notwithstanding.


SALUTE TO ALL!
#4047594 - 12/08/14 05:11 PM Re: Observer/Gunner question [Re: busdriver]  
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Creaghorn Offline
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And those differences are reflected with gunners having different levels of skill.

Personally, I would always recommend less accurate, for front guns and rear guns.

#4047613 - 12/08/14 05:44 PM Re: Observer/Gunner question [Re: busdriver]  
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This is also the problem, we have many variables, so snap judgements are often not the whole picture.
2 seater craft types have their own difficulties for gunners (arc objects, wires in the way etc ), to the gunner's skill (novice, vet, ace), player's own pilot skill. Also your attacking potential and survival potential for success will depend on your number of guns, your craft durability (especially when shot from the front) , how many of you are attacking, how well you change relative direction and so on. This is not to mention the other variables in WOFF, gunner accuracy etc.

The workshop settings are so each person can tailor it a bit for their pref/skill/wishes.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
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