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#4034874 - 11/12/14 01:14 AM Re: DR 1 or Camel [Re: JimBobb]  
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Despite popular misconception, those planes were strong. The Fokker Dr.I wings could sustain a load factor of nearly 8 Gs. Pilots would likely pass out or stall the plane before reaching that.

The initial problem with the Fokker wings was one of construction (the internal moisture problem Olham noted), not airframe structural design. Once they fixed that the wings were good to go, and a similar airframe was used on the Fokker D.VII.

#4034876 - 11/12/14 01:16 AM Re: DR 1 or Camel [Re: vonBaur]  
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Originally Posted By: vonBaur
The Dr1 can perform a skid turn in WOFF. It seems to go to the right better than the left (although that could be my imagination), but both directions are possible. With full rudder application you can change heading as much as 60 to 70 degrees in just a few seconds but it's impossible to maintain control more much longer than that. However if you don't apply as much rudder (maybe 50% or so, I haven't quantified it) you can accomplish a full 360*, and theortically continue indefinitely. It takes a considerable time...I didn't have a stopwatch but I gave up counting at 20 seconds and wasn't quite halfway around.


Precisely my experience Sir thumbsup


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#4035010 - 11/12/14 01:41 PM Re: DR 1 or Camel [Re: JimBobb]  
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8 Gs... incredible, what has been achieved in those early days. Completely without State-of-the-Art Computer analysed Stress Simulations or even a Pocket Calculator. Pen, Paper and a Ruler was about all they had... and not much Experience, neither.
I mean, just take a look at those pics. You wouldn't think that this Construction would stand the Weight of a Briefcase. Ingenious copter

#4035023 - 11/12/14 02:05 PM Re: DR 1 or Camel [Re: JimBobb]  
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Those kind of pictures should be saved and brought out for any damage model discussions.
Not many places too hide in those aircraft! And note the fuel tanks.

#4035035 - 11/12/14 02:16 PM Re: DR 1 or Camel [Re: Nietzsche]  
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Originally Posted By: Nietzsche
8 Gs... incredible, what has been achieved in those early days.
Completely without State-of-the-Art Computer analysed Stress Simulations or even a Pocket Calculator.

Believe it or not - they just put sandbags on the main wingspar in tests.
That way they found out how much a wing could bear before it would break.
Here are some photos from the Fokker company:








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#4035047 - 11/12/14 02:54 PM Re: DR 1 or Camel [Re: JimBobb]  
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One more example for a broken spar. If I get that right, the spar broke under 1000 kilogram.
The addition read "septuple". So the wing must have been able to bear "sextuple" the weight.



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#4035051 - 11/12/14 03:05 PM Re: DR 1 or Camel [Re: Olham]  
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Originally Posted By: Olham
One more example for a broken spar. If I get that right, the spar broke under 1000 kilogram.
The addition read "septuple". So the wing must have been able to bear "sextuple" the weight.




Thanks for the post Olham! You surprised me with that post. Very informative Sir!


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#4035105 - 11/12/14 05:12 PM Re: DR 1 or Camel [Re: Robert_Wiggins]  
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Olham Offline
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Originally Posted By: Robert_Wiggins
[You surprised me with that post. Very informative Sir!

Thank you, Robert.
Sometimes, when I realised I knew something AND remembered that I knew it,
I surprise mySELF. Mmuahahahahaaa!!!


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#4035210 - 11/12/14 09:33 PM Re: DR 1 or Camel [Re: JimBobb]  
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Speaking of Fokker wing strength there is photo of, I am fairly certain, of a Fokker D VIII.
It shows Anthony himself, I believe, and about 15 or 20 guys standing on the upper (only) wing of the aircraft.
He seemed to always get a lot of bad press about structural issues so this was a PR photo.
Of course, as demonstrated with the Alb series, static strength ( men and sandbags) was never an issue but the twist and turns of flight/motion that caused issues.
And forgive my choice of words I forget the physics terms for the forces I am trying to describe.

#4035489 - 11/13/14 07:14 PM Re: DR 1 or Camel [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Here's a free ebook on that very subject. [url=http://www.freebookspot.es/TopTen.aspx?Category_ID=124][/url] http://www.freebookspot.es/TopTen.aspx?Category_ID=124

That shows the first page - the actual book is on page 1301 but you can have fun looking at all the others on the way if you like.


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#4035511 - 11/13/14 08:19 PM Re: DR 1 or Camel [Re: JimBobb]  
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IIRC, the original design and prototype had no interplane struts and the wings withstood the forces fine. Pilots' worries about some flutter is what caused Fokker to add them.


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#4035565 - 11/13/14 09:35 PM Re: DR 1 or Camel [Re: JimBobb]  
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I have heard that story also.
Fokker (or Platz) felt the wings were strong enough without them but they were added at the insistence of the pilots.

#4038635 - 11/20/14 10:02 PM Re: DR 1 or Camel [Re: Olham]  
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Originally Posted By: Olham
Originally Posted By: Nietzsche
Glued?!?
What did they use on the lower Wings? Scotch Tape?
skyisfalling


AFAIK, the panels were glued and nailed together.

The main spars of the lower wings were much shorter and maybe
didn't break up as easily as the upper one did.





Just noticed WOFF has this modelled also



jawdrop

#4040827 - 11/25/14 01:40 PM Re: DR 1 or Camel [Re: JimBobb]  
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Olham, are those your models? If so, I need a raging green smiley of envy!

And thanks for the old timey pics! Very informative posts!

#4040834 - 11/25/14 01:43 PM Re: DR 1 or Camel [Re: JimBobb]  
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Good grief JimBobb. It's amazing how much is going on "under the hood" in WOFF!


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#4041961 - 11/27/14 01:53 AM Re: DR 1 or Camel [Re: Hellshade]  
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Originally Posted By: Hellshade
I'm not the aircraft expert but from what little I've gathered over the years, I would say the following. Camel turns faster to the right, DR 1 is faster to the left.

Why would this be? They were both rotary engines. Did they spin in opposite directions?


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#4041991 - 11/27/14 02:58 AM Re: DR 1 or Camel [Re: Nietzsche]  
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Originally Posted By: Nietzsche
Glued?!?
What did they use on the lower Wings? Scotch Tape?
skyisfalling




A recreation of the original Nieuport 28 plans showed that the part of the upper wing, where the fabric tended to rip away from the fram in high-speed dives, was improperly nailed/tacked. It was only glued in that certain section, which was the reason for the tearing tendency.

Obviously things didn't always go so well when one or the other was skimped.


From what I gathered, the standard construction technique of the time was to use both nails and glue to secure the wing fabric. Not sure if there were some rare models that may have done it differently during WW1.

Last edited by Nefaro; 11/27/14 03:00 AM.

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