I can't believe ubi has the nerve to ship a simulation as complex as LOMAC without a manual, and then charge an additional $29.99 for something that should have been included in the box in the first place! Then, they even try to make it sound like they are doing everyone a favor by making it (Like, we weren't going to provide you with documentation so you could figure things out, but since we are so nice, we are doing it) and charging us almost the same price as the software!

I don't need a pretty leather cover and colorful pictures in the darn thing. Just tell me how to fly the aircraft for crying out loud.

I don't know...things have really changed in this industry, and it ain't for the best...

Just my .02

Semper Fi

Remember the manual that came with Falcon 4???

Calm down.

I don't think the people providing the printed manual service is at all related to Ubi. So leave them out in your rant. They ARE one of us and trying to help (possibly at a finacial loss).

But you have all the right to complain aobut Ubi not including the printed manual. And yes, that's the trend of the business.

Oh. And it's not like Ubi totally left out the manual so we have no way to learn it in details. There's a PDF file of the full manual in the CD.

Just FYI.

I do remember the Falcon 4 manual...and fondly! I still have it and look at it from time to time, although the SP3 mod has superceded it...

Thats exactly what I'm talking about though...a high quality manual was porvided in Falvon 4 at no additional cost...thats the way it should be. Without a printed manual, the product is incomplete...Period! When you buy a new rifle, lawn mower, car, etc...you expect the manual to come with it, and not be offered on a disc, or by a third party!

Semper Fi

I hear what you are saying and I don't necessarily disagree with you... but, get over it.

RB

I prefer sims with no manual over no sims. While I don't like this trend either, the other side of the coin is that production costs of games have risen much more than their retail price. It is also hard to explain within a company that the games with the lowest market appeal (flight sims) should have the biggest cost in additional material.

As has been pointed out, the manual available for Lock On is purely a 3rd party effort and the guy providing it actually loses, not earns money with it. So don't see a conspiracy behind everything.

- Caretaker

I don't understand some people around here...everyone seems to agree...and I would hope everyone agrees because my feelings on this are completely justified...

But why do some people always feel the need to make excuses for developers who no longer deliver complete products??? I just don't understand...

Flight sims aren't going the way of the dinosaur because of FPS or other game types or lack of interest...its because of things like this and SF:P1 that is killing your flight sims...Blame developers who consistantly fail to deliver, not the consumer who just wants a complete product...

Sorry if you think that pointing out facts is making excuses. I'm well aware the market situation is certainly more complicated than just "flight sims are dying because people don't play them anymore". But there may still be more reasons behind certain unfortunate trends than just developers and publishers (which BTW are the deciding factor here regarding manuals) wanting to rip us off.

- Caretaker

Nic Cole is charging £20 for his manual.... its already stated that if he charges £24.99... he is STILL LOOSING MONEY on the manual...

so Lomac costs what?? £24.99 is the cheapest it will be available in the UK.. up to around £34.99... so lets look at it now... £34.99 game... if Ubi wanted to make a full on manual ala Falcon 4.. they would be charging £59.98!!!!!!!!! Who will want to pay £59.98 ?? I would... but Joe Public WILL NOT BUY ANY GAME that costs that much! plain and simple... so if Ubi did print off a 300 page manual.. and charge approx £30 for it all... then they will be loosing money by the shed full... No developer / publisher is in this business to LOSE money... hence no manual...

Notice the trend recenty?? Even FS2002 / 2004 dont offer anything worth shouting about... and they charge a lot more than what I will be paying for my copy of LOMAC. IL-2: Forgotten Battles came with just enough of a manual to get started.... Operation Flashpoint? need I go on ?

Heck! even Microsoft dont give you a manual with your O/S! and most people pay £170 for the basic versions!

"buy a new rifle, lawn mower, car"

For $40?

You must have used that new $40 rifle to help you get that new $40 dollar lawnmower and $40 car.

I can't see any other way *that* was gonna happen!

JCC

Remember paying $75 plus tax for Falcon also? You really expect they can do it for half, five years later?

The days of Falcon 4.0 type manuals ended years ago, when they went from a Huge ass Box, to these little save the trees ones. Which isnt a bad thing I guess.

That Falcon Manual was one of a kind though. Never seen anything like it since. And believe its one of the reasons Microprose went out of buisness. That thing Had to kill profits.

Consider too the cost of buying a good decent book on an uncommon subject...especially if the info within it's just a rehash of data charts and pictures used for the last 30 years...that book will have a fair cost to it.

At least this way, we have a cost option: print it B+W on our home printers, or take it to Kinkos and have printed up for $. That or buy the real fancy manual.

We shouldn't forget this is the first HARDCORE JET simulation that is also a "survey sim", which we had already established as being a big financial potential as a risky investment. Maybe it will pay off, maybe it won't, too early to tell. Us hardcore sim-heads are loving it (when we can run it), but financial success depends on non-sim people to also buy and like it, tell their friends to go get it.

Jarhead, you do know there IS a mauanl in PDF format in the CD in the Manual folder, dsoon´t you?, You can have it pirnted out too.. So there is a manual.

If you did, sorry for the dumb question.

It´s not an excellent manual, but its there, you have all the fundamental stuff. It could be more compleat, but you do have some reference there.

Yes I also miss the days where buying a sim was also buying a grate book about combat aviation. But if needs be I would radder have a sim onlly product than no product at all.

OK OK...you guys have made some good points. Its not such a big deal to print the manual, but still...I do wish there would be some nice bathroom reading included in the box.

I gotta tell you though, and its been awhile, but I don't remember spending more than regular price for my copy of Falcon 4 with that superb bound manual...I never could have afforded more than 50, 60 bucks tops...

Forget about getting another Falcon 4 type manual. It isn't going to happen.

Two reasons. One is cost. Most of you can understand that. The other is more of a problem...finding someone to write it. The guy that wrote the F4 manual is a pro, a real life, weapons school qualied USAF pilot. The only other manual even close was the F/A-18 Korea manual...and guess what? He is a pro as well.

These guys are not in the sim business anymore. There are only a very small number of equally qualified folks currently involved with these sims...and they aren't doing that kind of work now.

It's a problem. You guys want max realism...and you want it for free. The closest you are going to get to that is here in our Air Combat Corner or at BioHaz where Mr Mudd hangs out.

Sorry...that's just the way it is.

What do you mean by that, Andy?

Dear Mr. Bush (Andy, not Pres. of USA):

Weren't you a pilot? If so, what the heck are you waiting for...start writing...

I can provide pencil and paper if necessary.

Semper Fi

I mean that you want professional instruction without paying more for it.