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#4641474 - 01/22/24 02:22 PM Re: Europa Universalis, why no love 'round here? [Re: DBond]  
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That didn't last long. I get to thinking about one or two of the two hundred+ achievements I have yet to get, then my mind starts churning out a plan. As it forms I start to wonder if it would work, and then I am compelled to put it to the test. Sometimes it works, sometimes it fails. That's this game in a nutshell. If you play ironman and must live with whatever occurs then some are going to crash and burn.

And so I'm still playing. One of the achievements I've wanted to get for a long time is Lion of the North, which requires starting as Sweden and leading the Protestant League to victory. This one is tricky, not least because you need to become the leader of the league which isn't automatic, you need to create the conditions to be installed as the leader. I managed to do so. Right up until the time the leagues started forming a OPM was Emperor, but just before the war Austria was re-elected, which made it all much harder. France, Spain, and more were all in for Catholic. It was not an even match, but I was determined. Sweden has good troops, and very early have a +20% infantry combat ability modifier. It was a vicious war, but I relentlessly threw my stack in to the enemy, eventually white peacing out the minors and forcing Protestant as the official religion of the HRE. Superb!

My current run is as Air, which starts in central Africa along with nations like Timbuktu and Songhai. It's a tough start because you don't even have feudalism yet. The achievement is called Golden Wind, which requires being Air and making a profit of 50 ducats a month while at least 50% comes from gold mines. Not an easy position for Air, as Songhai is hostile and have better military ideas, and Mali is strong too. These are the three big hitters in the region. I've managed to eliminate Songhai in a series of brutal wars, allied to Mali. But once they were gone, Mali rivaled me and the stage is set. We are both about the same size and strength (Mali slightly stronger) but they've managed tech a little better. I am slightly ahead, but they've somehow managed to also fill out nearly all of their idea groups while I've hardly done any.

I'm hoping they get in to a war with France or Portugal or another colonizer and then we will pounce. I am frantically improving relations with all of the great powers and I just have to hope they don't get too keen on my stuff. I have yet to acquire any gold mines, and Mali have three, which should be enough to do the achievement with dev. This is where the ones that fail, begin that trajectory. At some point you just have to go for it, and see which fate you've been dealt.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
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#4641504 - 01/23/24 01:30 AM Re: Europa Universalis, why no love 'round here? [Re: DBond]  
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I think "rage quit" is a sort of catch-all phrase - quitting in disgust IMHO falls into that category. But I get it, sometimes it's a bug that rears its head at the most inopportune time, sometimes it a badly coded feature that gets unpredictable when it matters most. Whatever the reason, I get it.

The Africa run seems interesting, I look forward to hearing if you can take Mali or not! I've slipped out of my gaming mode again, it seems to come and go for me. I haven't had the urge in a bit. Maybe now that that holidays have died down and the Bills season is over I'll take a crack at something - who knows, maybe EUIV!


Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.
This is known as "bad luck.”
-Robert Heinlein
#4641514 - 01/23/24 01:32 PM Re: Europa Universalis, why no love 'round here? [Re: DBond]  
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I'm rather in a jam. Mali just keep getting stronger. They haven't grown at all, but their force limit is outpacing my own. they must be deving up their base tax and building regimental camps.

It's the late 1600s and I had been waiting for the right conditions, especially one of the euro colonizers declaring on Mali, and it happened. Portugal and Spain sent a couple hundred thousand. I came out of drill, and waited for Mail's army to be crushed. But they went off and hid, the enemy sieged them half-way down and then peaced out! I mean what the fook? They didn't even take any land. Ottomans are now my ally but I can't get them to join offensive wars (distance, debt) and so I'm just sort of stuck.

Ill wait a while longer and in the mean time try to amass a big pile of money, then hit them after hiring mercs to give me the upper hand. But of course they can do so too. They are far richer than me. When manufactories institution arrived nearly the whole of Mali got it. I had a look and they had built these in nearly every province and those are 500 ducats a pop. Good grief. I need to find an advantage.

And yes, I think in honor of the Bills decent season you should start a run in EU IV. Pick an achievement and go for it.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4641532 - 01/23/24 06:29 PM Re: Europa Universalis, why no love 'round here? [Re: DBond]  
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I think I waited too long, not aggressive enough. Mali now have Great Britain as an ally and I can't take on that arrangement without allies of my own, which means I need Mali to declare on me, and they won't because I have Ottomans in my corner.

I did DoW Mali once when they were fighting Portugal, but they just kept pumping out troops between themselves and two vassals, I ran out of manpower and white peaced out with my army in tatters and warscore of like +9. All for nothing, really.

It's sort of ridiculous because neither Tunis nor Ottomans will join my offensive war due to the distant war modifier, but they are both on my borders! And Mali is too. Distant war, my ass.

It's been a good run, no real problems other than unable to get the achievement unless something unexpected happens. I need France on my side.

Economy is good, tech is too, but behind on ideas. Nice map color and really good national ideas for Air. But my land is not nearly so rich and well developed as what Mail have, and that has caused me to trail the whole game.

I needed to be more aggressive earlier, but I had judged it imprudent, and maybe I would have lost too much had I tried. The kicker was a fairly strong Timbuktu was my ally at one point and would have swung the balance, but somehow Mali made them a vassal and that was that.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4641542 - 01/23/24 10:52 PM Re: Europa Universalis, why no love 'round here? [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
I'm rather in a jam. Mali just keep getting stronger. They haven't grown at all, but their force limit is outpacing my own. they must be deving up their base tax and building regimental camps.

It's the late 1600s and I had been waiting for the right conditions, especially one of the euro colonizers declaring on Mali, and it happened. Portugal and Spain sent a couple hundred thousand. I came out of drill, and waited for Mail's army to be crushed. But they went off and hid, the enemy sieged them half-way down and then peaced out! I mean what the fook? They didn't even take any land. Ottomans are now my ally but I can't get them to join offensive wars (distance, debt) and so I'm just sort of stuck.

Ill wait a while longer and in the mean time try to amass a big pile of money, then hit them after hiring mercs to give me the upper hand. But of course they can do so too. They are far richer than me. When manufactories institution arrived nearly the whole of Mali got it. I had a look and they had built these in nearly every province and those are 500 ducats a pop. Good grief. I need to find an advantage.


Looks like the Mali thing is gonna be a tough slog. Gonna give it another go if it doesn't work out this time, or will you go on to something else?


Quote
And yes, I think in honor of the Bills decent season you should start a run in EU IV. Pick an achievement and go for it.


I just might do that after I finish off this Battletech career I've got going!


Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.
This is known as "bad luck.”
-Robert Heinlein
#4641563 - 01/24/24 01:46 PM Re: Europa Universalis, why no love 'round here? [Re: DBond]  
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Not sure. I returned to it for a bit to look over my options. As noted, no allies will join me if I declare offensive war. We share borders, yet they have a distant war malus.

Clicking declare to view the force balance shows my 72k troops would face 1.3 million. Not great odds.

EU IV is in really good shape in a lot of ways. but the late game is a bit off. One of the biggest issues in my view is that colonisation occurs at far too high a pace. This means that any colonizers end up with massive alliances in short order. A Great Britain with 300k troops has another 700k from their CNs. That's just madness, that these CNs in 1650 are among the most powerful nations on earth. Something must be done to slow it all down.

Success in this game, if you're going expansionist at all -- and who doesn't? -- means you have to be able to get it done on your own much of the time, and if you can have allies help along the way all the better. But that means a vast majority of nations are especially difficult to play. Nevers, Netherlands, Lubeck, Tuscany and small nations like these will struggle without help from allies. It works some of the time. But some of the time it does not and leaves you stuck, unless you're a much better player than me I guess.

So instead I've nearly failed at another achievement, Navigator. This one requires being Portugal and owning provinces in Africa, India and Indonesia by 1500. A very specialized sort of goal (and I usually avoid the timed ones). I was able to reach India by 1480, which is pretty good, but Vanjangyar or however it is spelled had already taken Maldives and Ceylon, which I was hoping would be small nations I could no-CB and pop the achievement. I cannot no-CB Vanjangyar and their alliance and hope to win.

So that leaves me with the possibility to charter a province but they want 3000 ducats. I have 800, make 11 ducats a month profit with everything shut off, and have less than 4 years left. I need about 1000 ducats to fall in my lap.

It used to be that as Portugal once you discovered India's coast you would get Goa by event. But I guess this was changed and now it comes from the mission tree, but this requires owning Zanzibar, which means another far-flung war that I won't win as no allies will join. When you devise plans, cross-check them against the changes and make sure it all still works the way you think it does lol.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4641579 - 01/24/24 05:16 PM Re: Europa Universalis, why no love 'round here? [Re: DBond]  
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You didn't ask for suggestions, and might not fire the game up anytime soon, but I was thinking of which achievements I would recommend for someone starting to hunt achievements. You're not a new player, but maybe these would give someone inspiration

A Tale of Two Families . (Starting as Vijayanagar or Bahmanis conquer the other’s capital and have them not exist.). This one, to me, is the perfect achievement primer scenario. The two nations start essentially even. Map colors (yellow and blue) are nice. Land is rich. All you need to do is wipe the other nation. Simple goal, free hand in how you go about it. I did this one as Vijayanagar and completed it in 1527. Short and sweet.

One Night in Paris (Start as England, own and have a core on Paris (do not form another country unless it's Great Britain). England and France are natural enemies, and England starts with cores on the continent, giving you a head start. A nice, secure early game, as you're on an island and have Scotland and all the Irish minors to gobble up before turning your attention to the mainland once you've consolidated your power. France is a worthy foe.

Uncommnonwealth (As Lithuania, become The Commonwealth). With the mission tree this has become much easier, as you can get a restore union CB. I wouldn't have placed this here without this, as it would be much harder to accomplish. The Polish province limit to form has been increased too. Now, it's fairly easy and if done, gives you a fantastic start.

The Iron Price (Restore the Danelaw region to Danish rule, and make it Danish culture.). Essentially you invade England, which as Denmark is achievable since they are one of the few nations that can challenge England on the seas in the early game. Good fun.

Sweden is Not Overpowered! (Own and have cores on the entire Baltic coastline as Sweden.) This one isn't as easy anymore, as in my runs at least PLC is strong, probably too strong. So you need some breaks perhaps, or early wars to limit their influence. But Sweden's troops are fantastic, and once you unite Denmark and Norway you gotta go somewhere. Taking the Baltic coastline is a proper goal.

Not Just Pizza (Become a Great Power as Naples). I love simple achievement goals. Not simple as in how hard it is, but simple with what needs to be accomplished in the end. Naples is in a fantastic spot, though you start as a junior partner, so might need to break free. In my recent runs, Aragon nearly always releases Naples by event, but not sure what is likely as a player nation. I had to declare and win independence war in earlier version. But achievements like this where you have the entire game to meet it, and a free hand on how you go about it, are my favorites.

Italian Ambition (Form Italy). Can be combined with Not just Pizza. Italy is a superb nation, with great ideas and geographic position. Can be formed as other nations, I did it as Aragon once. Simple, but not easy.

Bengal Tiger (Start as Bengal and own Samarkand as a core province) Another good India-region achievement. A single, simple goal and free hand. No silliness like tag switching, letting rebels win or converting to animism. Just expand until you sweep over the target some distance to your west.

The Spice Must Flow (Form the nation of Malaya) Many possible choices here. I did it as Brunei I think. Malacca or Pasai would be good choices too. Indonesia is a fun region. Time is ticking a bit as the euros will arrive eventually, but you've got a couple hundred years to establish dominance. Lots of uncolonized land nearby. A maritime flavor to it all as well. Valuable trade goods. Tech is a challenge, but is so for your neighbors as well.

Victorian Three (As Busoga, Buganda or Karagwe, reach administrative, diplomatic and military technology level 32). A neat achievement places you on the shores of Lake Victoria in central Africa. As the only goal is to hit max tech, you are free to proceed in any way you see fit. Play tall, go wildly expansionist, colonial, whatever you want. Free-form achievement hunting at its most pure.

Anyway, just a few ideas for someone looking to go achievement hunting in EU IV. All of those listed are fairly simple, allow more or less a free hand in how you go about it, and have no time restrictions giving you the entire timeline to get it done. There are dozens of incidental achievements you can get along the way that are not nation-specific, like having 200 provinces or corrupting government officials and that sort of thing.



No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4641595 - 01/24/24 10:26 PM Re: Europa Universalis, why no love 'round here? [Re: DBond]  
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Funny, I almost did ask you about what achievements someone new to achievement hunting you'd suggest. I've never really played a game with that goal, I've only played them to play them, if you follow my drift.
The one's I pick up are incidental to the gameplay. Given a game like EUIV, it might make sense to narrow the focus a bit I guess. Thanks!


Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.
This is known as "bad luck.”
-Robert Heinlein
#4641607 - 01/25/24 01:28 AM Re: Europa Universalis, why no love 'round here? [Re: DBond]  
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Yeah, for sure, and that's how it started for me too. Just play and oh there ya go, an achievement. But after a while I started to need some direction, some goals. Achievements gave me that, and beyond this, have led me to play so many nations I probably never would have, and come up with plans I never would have thought of. Like being Teutonic Order, annexing all of Russia and converting it all to Catholic. I mean, come on right? Or being Scotland and vassalizing France. So many cool objectives. But there are also some that are rather ridiculous. But in general I love it in this game. The fact you are forced to play ironman, and therefore have to live with everything that happens, good or bad, just gives me a certain satisfaction at having it all come together, regardless of the curveballs thrown your way. The finality of every decision and action has so much appeal. You need real courage sometimes to commit. It's too easy to wait too long, like happened in that Air game.To be too cautious. And I guess it's just as easy to be too aggressive! Yeah, that sums it all up really.

I think of runs like the one for Fanatic Collectivist when Industrialization popped in far eastern Russia. Solving this sort of eventuality is so much fun in a game like this. There is no formula to this game, no paint by numbers approach due to how variable it is, and along with Falcon it's the most replayable game ever for me.

At times it's a love-hate thing, and I've taken long breaks. Will again. And currently the hyper-colonization and tenuous state of allies keeps me a touch mad at it haha. Why can't it be perfect? So close! smile

I finished the Portugal run for The Navigator, own provinces in Africa, Indonesia and India by 1500 that I mentioned above. Cleared it with six months to spare! Some of the things I did to raise my income to afford to be able to charter a province in india and trip the achievement

-- Set the state order that raises tax by 25%. Did that in two states, the one with Lisbon and the one with Porto.
-- Took gubment reform that adds the age-specific state edict and did taxes again
-- Sold a few heavies to Castile. those went for 50-60 a pop.
-- Sale of Titles. Yeah, I hate hitting that button, but whatareyagonnado? That was good for about 450 ducats which was a big shot in the arm
-- Raised relations with Indian coastal nations, but only one had a 3-dev strip of desert, Gujurat, which, with relations maxed sold for about 1700 ducats.
-- Used papal points to get tax boost and dip rep. I could have nailed this earlier if anyone would have agreed to knowledge sharing. the Indian nations were at 0 after I raised dip rep. I kept hoping for a dip rep advisor, but couldn't afford to keep firing them as I needed every ducat
-- Zeroed land maintnenance

So yeah, in the end a lot of little things added up just in time, but raising relations dropped the charter price by about 1000 ducats and sale of titles was a big boost. The province is a worthless spit of sand, but The Navigator is done.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4641619 - 01/25/24 02:39 AM Re: Europa Universalis, why no love 'round here? [Re: DBond]  
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It definitely seems to influence your play style! Forcing you to go down certain paths and give you something to plan for. It's not a bad idea, really, esp in something so open as this.

I took a look at the achievements I've earned so far for EUIV. A whopping 0! I guess it's because I don't play ironman. I probably should, I don't save scum generally, I just play the hand I'm dealt.

Last edited by JohnnyChemo; 01/25/24 02:41 AM. Reason: check my achievements

Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.
This is known as "bad luck.”
-Robert Heinlein
#4641632 - 01/25/24 01:27 PM Re: Europa Universalis, why no love 'round here? [Re: DBond]  
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Yeah, that's exactly right. It's a simple matter to come up with your own objectives, but after a bunch of free-form runs I started to want some sort of structure, some goals.

If you don't reload saves, yeah, no reason not to play ironman. You'd get a bunch of them in a first run. Win a war, royal marriage, force limits and right on down the line. Anyway, might be worth one attempt and see how it suits you.

To get achievements you have to play ironman, have difficulty at least normal and use historical lucky nations. If you meet all the conditions there will be a notification that this save will be eligible for achievements.

I kicked off a Byzantium run last night, which is one of the hardest starts in the game. It didn't go very well. The new patch completely reworks Byz, gives them all sorts of malii (is that plural for malus?). Like triple ship building time, half morale and other stuff. It's just stacked against you entirely. Plus you're tiny and Ottomans are covetous and hostile. But I came up with a new plan while walking the dog this morning haha. I'll try it out later. I want to restore the ERE dammit.

First time I've ever played Byzantium, and I've played now for 3,750 hours eek



No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4641643 - 01/26/24 12:53 AM Re: Europa Universalis, why no love 'round here? [Re: DBond]  
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I didn't realize historical lucky nations was a requirement too. Thanks for the heads up on that.
BTW - maluses (looked it up!).


Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.
This is known as "bad luck.”
-Robert Heinlein
#4641663 - 01/26/24 01:43 PM Re: Europa Universalis, why no love 'round here? [Re: DBond]  
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Thanks, I'll remember that.

Yeah, lucky nations is required, and i wish it was not. Back when SDE used to post here I would often comment about how much more wild, weird and variable his maps became compared to mine, and mainly I chalked it up to lucky nations which he didn't use. Matter of fact he was unable to actually get achievements to work, but I always suspected it was mod related, but we never determined the reason actually. Maybe he had it set to easy, which would invalidate ironman.Lucky nations of course gives certain nations a big boost, which shades the results to a degree. The AI could use the help, honestly, but I'd prefer to have it off to make the game even more variable than it already is.

My Byzantium plans concocted during the dog walk didn't work at all and Ottomans stomped me. Need a better plan.

So I am now going for the Victorian Three achievement. This one requires you start as one of three small central African nations that begin alongside Lake Victoria and reach max tech level (32) in all three categories. I'll have to add this one to the recommended list above, as it is a fantastic starter achievement. I mean, that's the only objective and you have the entire game to get it done, and you'll need most of it to reach max level. There aren't too many nation-specific achievements that let you play tall, but this is certainly one. You could go full isolationist or conquer all of Africa. All you need do is survive and manage technology well.

I chose the nation of Karagwe, due to a nice map color, two instead of one province and the starting ruler had like one extra pip. At the start I was super aggressive against my neighbors. Karagwe and about five or six other small nations all start together around the lake, but are isolated from the rest of Africa by wasteland, uncolonized provinces and bodies of water. Like a cage match.

Since technological progression is my overriding goal I am mindful of how I am spending my monarch points, so I force-vassalized, fed and integrated the others in short order, by like 1480. Doing so enables a decision to tag switch to Kitara, and doing this instantly grants 400 colonists at five of the bordering uncolonized provinces. Yes please! So by like 1490 I had gone from two provinces to about twenty. And three quarters of my border has no neighbors. Every other nation around is either my ally, vassal or green-heart loves me. I could literally do nothing but chase tech the rest of the way.

Tech is a challenge, but if you understand the tricks it's not bad at all. Karagwe/Kitara are in the same tech group as the Air run I just did, and start without feudalism. Acquiring institutions is the main challenge, but there are ways to get around the impediments. Knowledge sharing, or you can force-spawn institutions by pumping dev in to a particular province. So far I've kept up easily, which means I outpace my backwards neighbors. Soon, we will swap to a monarchy from a tribe. It's all going superbly so far. It's as if I have created Wakanda.

For anyone looking to hunt achievements in EU IV, this page is great

Europa Universalis IV Achievements

One of the most important things on that page is the right-hand column, which shows which DLC (if any) is required. You don't want to chase one only to find out after a couple hundred years you are ineligible. If a player has all expansions then they're good, but many players have some, not all. It also has some quick strategy advice for certain ones to give a hint on possible approaches.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4641692 - 01/27/24 01:48 PM Re: Europa Universalis, why no love 'round here? [Re: DBond]  
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So far, so good.

Kitara is doing fine. Since the goal is to max out tech as a nation that starts in a tech hole, my plan was to do as much as possible to make increasing it and embracing institutions as easy and as inexpensive as I can. That means taking Innovative as my first admin group. Innovative gives increased Innovativeness and 10% tech cost discount, both of which make teching up cheaper. It's nearly 1600 and I have also taken Offensive, Influence and Expansion.

Offensive, because in my runs since my return I notice that the AI seems to produce really good generals. And even if I don't entirely understand how combat works, I mean the actual under the hood stuff, it seems to me that an extra general pip or two is stronger than stuff like 10% infantry combat ability and that sort of thing.

Influence too, since I have made vassals a cornerstone of the run. The smaller your nation, the easier and cheaper it is to embrace and raise tech, so instead of annexing, I've just fed conquered lands to my four vassals. So far I've had six, but integrated two. Influence also has double vassal force limit as the finisher, so the vassals can actually field worthwhile armies and stack military power so that any nation who would attack us might think twice due to strength of alliance. Influence of course also increases vassal tribute and lowers integration cost. One of the best idea groups in the game, but obviously very situational. In this run though it makes perfect sense. By keeping my nation at modest size I've been able to keep up on tech with Europe, and therefore a couple levels ahead of my regional rivals.

Expansion was taken just for the colonist. Karagwe/Kitara has quite a bit of uncolonized land around at the start, and I reasoned it might be better to grab that before someone like Kilwa does, or whichever euro takes over the Cape. They could then fill in these interior Africa regions and I reckon it is prudent to forestall this. Each province added increases those tech costs, but I have to balance this against security and strength. By owning something, I prevent a competitor from doing the same. This also allows me to expand slowly in order to keep pace with my growing vassals, keeping a check on liberty desire due to relative strength.

Kilwa to the east has done very well, but have rivalled me. We are very close in strength, but I have a tech lead so we will see what happens there. Kilwa should eventually come to blows with one of Portugal, Spain, England or France I would think. I have purposely taken no coast line on either side of the continent. Landlocked by choice. I reasoned if I have no coastal provinces it insulates me, at least for now, from covetous European colonizers. So I ate and fed Kongo, but let them keep the strip of provinces along the coast.

I reformed the tribe in to a Theocracy! Yeah, why not? Haven't played one in a long time. I planned to go Monarchy, but changed my mind. I like the reforms a lot, and you get the devotion mechanic and don't have to worry about producing heirs. Pretty cool.

Not sure where to take the run from here. I feel like just staying where we are might be the best course. If I expand I might invite unwanted enemies. I've carved out a good empire and maybe best to sit on it, build it up and lock it down.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4641732 - 01/28/24 03:57 PM Re: Europa Universalis, why no love 'round here? [Re: DBond]  
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JohnnyChemo Offline
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Interesting strategy to avoid coastal provinces, but I understand the thinking. If Kilwa goes to war with one of the European countries, are you going wardec them and go for the throat? Or perhaps let the war play out and hit them when they are licking their wounds?


Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.
This is known as "bad luck.”
-Robert Heinlein
#4641740 - 01/28/24 07:27 PM Re: Europa Universalis, why no love 'round here? [Re: DBond]  
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DBond Offline
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No, Kilwa has been at war with Spain, but I've gone fully isolationist. When I started the run I considered how I might approach it. Would it be better to expand, grow power and become an unattractive target like we do with most nations? Or would it be be better to reign it in, build it up and lock it down? Since my only real goal here is to survive long enough to max out tech levels I thought about how to make that easy and inexpensive, especially considering our remote region in central Africa. Keeping it all tight would make embracing institutions far easier and a lot less expensive. Plus, it's rare I play tall by choice. A Holland to Netherlands run a few years ago maybe. But even there I held coastline, had a massive navy, went colonial, so even though I had a modest home nation, it was still a power run. And also, minding your own business makes fewer enemies and entanglements.

So I decided to see if I could pull this off with a small nation. I'd use vassals to supplement my strength, give additional manpower pool for our wars and kick some cash upstairs. I'd take reforms and ideas to increase defensiveness and attrition. If we were invaded, they'd have to pay a high price for every step forward. Each of the nations I vassalized has traditions that include attrition bonuses, and I stacked them up for Kitara.

The main challenges here are tech, economy and manpower. These are not rich lands, mostly savanna, highlands and jungle. But going tall means I don't have to burn monarch points on coring and culture conversion, war exhaustion, stamping out unrest and all of the incidental things that cost so much over an expansionist run.That leaves it available to pump dev in the provinces we do hold. And I strategically concentrated this development in the northwest, the three states northwest of Lake Victoria. This makes embracing much faster, and keeps my economy's engine as far from potential invaders as possible. That gives you more staying power in a war.

I was also careful with how I expanded. When you form Kitara you can choose an option to have 400 colonists instantly appear in five provinces on the eastern border. I took that decision for sure, and then took Expansion, but only the first idea for the colonist, then over the next 100 years I filled in other ones along our borders, taking some for me and some for Kazembe. Once I had the ones I wanted I swapped Expansion with another idea group. And as you can see in this screenshot I left a strip of uncolonised provinces between our border and Kilwa's. To the north and south is all wasteland. We do kiss Kilwa in that one spot, but the province there is the most fortified in the world. I've focused hard on building this up, taking all decisions, policies and ideas I can to boost the defensiveness. Top-level forts, ramparts and more. Big stacks melt on fortifications like these.

Along the Atlantic coast the plan is mostly working. I took everything from Kongo but left them with all coastal provinces. They held it for a while but eventually got eaten by France and Great Britain. So that plan kept me safe from the euros until nearly 1700, although both now desire my provinces so that could be trouble. But beyond just delaying hostile relations with european powerhouses, the plan also considered that having no coastline denies these massive alliances with powerful navies the ability to blockade me and run up warscore without doing anything else. To get me they have to come ashore, where jungle, forts and snakes await smile

Keeping up with tech has been easy. I'm right there with any nation, although the early game saw us lagging behind a bit. But that's fine, as I was ahead of my local rivals, and by the time the euros arrived we had closed that gap. We are on tech and on time.

Here you see the decision to form Kitara. I had an aggressive start, annexing or vassalizing all nations around the lake. By 1482 I had it all integrated to form Kitara. I decided to keep Karagwe's ideas, which I like better. If I had instead decided to be expansionist I would have swapped, as Kitara gets a powerful -25% culture conversion cost.

[Linked Image]


From there I expanded a bit with the colonist, and then conquered, vassalized and fed the nations to the west. Essentially taking those eight nations and carving them up in to four vassals. This shot shows the defensiveness in the province Kilwa would have to invade through. This shot was 40 years ago, and it's now a level 8 with even more bonuses. And this shows the Fetishist Holy State of Kitara and her vassals, and the state of the region, which is unchanged 40 years later. So far so good. We will see if someone gives us a go.


[Linked Image]

Attached Files Kitara.jpgDefensiveness.jpg

No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4641757 - 01/29/24 04:54 AM Re: Europa Universalis, why no love 'round here? [Re: DBond]  
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Done and dusted. It took until 1812 to max tech, but it all went well. I'm rather surprised to have managed to evade any wars with big nations. This was the most peaceful run I've ever done. Early on it was busy, but by the mid 1500s I was essentially done with warfare. After that it was a matter of matching Kilwa's growing power to keep them at arm's length, trying not to be a target for Spain, Portugal, France or Great Britain (or Ottomans for that matter) and shaping my subjects. This wasn't necessarily an easy run. It looks like it, but there are a lot of things that need done along the way to arrive there.

Playing tall was cool, as a change of pace. So easy to have max prestige, religious unity, devotion, all provinces with accepted culture. Just rock stable playing this way, as you'd expect I suppose. Pumping dev works, as even with such a modest nation and mediocre land I was fielding over 200k standing army. The economy was ticking over nicely. Trade here is rotten. But I made up for it with taxes and especially production. Great Lakes as it is called, is a source node. Nothing flows in to it. Any trade you get you are producing yourself, nothing to capture generated by others. Just one of the unique factors in this run, which was full of them.

I focused on my vassals, deving them up, building buildings and forts, lowering autonomy, converting religion, subsidizing and sending gifts. Around 1750 one of them was gaining liberty desire. The last thing I wanted was a disloyal vassal that Kilwa, England or France could support their independence. I started to integrate them (the brown nation in the previous post). The Age of Revolution has two age abilities that reduce liberty desire, but it takes a while to hit 800 splendor to grab one. Not wanting to take the chance I kept integrating. But I realized by turning the four smaller vassals in to three slightly bigger vassals would trigger the age objective to have a subject with at least 250 dev. That would give me the three I needed to trip a golden age, which had eluded me the entire game. But even more importantly, it would remove that brown blob, allowing me to feed these back, shape it, and beautify it with all pastel subject nations haha. All thjs work paid off as by the end, each of these vassals were fielding 80k field armies and paying a nice tribute. It's a shame that the plan worked so well and no one attacked us, and I am certain the armies combined with the focus on defensiveness and attrition would have won just about any war. Except maybe Ottomans who had a force limit of 1.9 million at the end. Insane.

For idea groups I took Offensive, Influence, Innovative, Expansion but replaced with Court when no longer needed, Quality, Quantity, Defensive, Mercenary. I took Merc near the end just in case anyone felt froggy. I had a nice war chest and could have merc'd up to win any war. As a result of this very mil-heavy mix our troops were fantastic. Highest morale of any non-revolutionary nation, max professionalism, good tradition, siege and so on. +30% infantry combat and the focus on general pips topped it off. Really good troops. After tripping the achievement I declared on Kilwa and smoked 'em.

Here's the repainted map, with less gore in 1814. Interesting run, this. It's fun to mix it up, try new things like playing tall, playing in central Africa and reforming to a theocracy.


[Linked Image]

Attached Files VicThree.jpg

No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4641788 - 01/29/24 11:24 PM Re: Europa Universalis, why no love 'round here? [Re: DBond]  
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Sounds like an interesting run. For me, these games always seem to be leading to the next big conflict. It's a total change of mindset to have a run that doesn't lead to a steady stream of wars. I'm sure you changed a lot in the way you play to accommodate that strategy, kudos to you for pulling it off!


Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.
This is known as "bad luck.”
-Robert Heinlein
#4641812 - 01/30/24 08:28 PM Re: Europa Universalis, why no love 'round here? [Re: DBond]  
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DBond Offline
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I was prepared for it, but decided I would only fight defensive wars, and no one decided to do it. I was too small to fight two wars at the same time, and had visions of attacking in one direction, like Kilwa, while France hit me from the other. That's how I look to do it, hit them when they are stretched thin, and if I found myself in that situation it would have all come crashing down I think. My troops were top-tier, but manpower was low for late game. It's a shame actually that no one attacked as I would have liked to see what would have happened to invading stacks in my lands. The defensiveness and attrition were very high. I think their stacks would have melted. Ramparts, which I never build, give high bonuses plus -1 to siege rolls, and on a level 8 that's just gonna suck. Add jungle, highlands and mountain terrain and I don't think they would get past my vassals, and then if they did they would hit the real hard stuff. And all my important bits were behind that. It was a sucker's game to hit me, and the AI seemed to catch on smile

Now I've kicked off a run as Ethiopia. Good start. I played them once before, as it's an interesting position, plus you're Coptic. In that run I had prepared for 80 years to war Mamluks, and when it was all in place and they were losing a war to Ottomans I hit them. Perfect plan. Perfect timing. I sieged all the way to Alexandria, occupied it, and then headed off to the east to fill in some provinces that Ottos had yet to occupy. Soon, all of it would be carpeted and we would have a stunning victory. Then Ottomans peaced out, taking territory closer to them, and retunrnng all the forts they had occupied near my armies to Mamluk control. The foul zone of control rules then locked my armies in place, and not together. To escape I had to siege down the forts. Mamluks recovered an army and then stack wiped each of my field armies in turn. Quit that run.

This time I've left Mamluks alone and instead have focused on the horn and down the east coast to Kilwa and Madagascar. I reason that a fairly strong Mamluks can slow Ottos' roll. Beating them both will be easier than taking on one who ate the other, if you know what I mean. I'll gather strength in Africa, then once we have met some Euros and hopefully allied them, we will strike to the north. I have just met Castile and allied them, which is good. But before clicking on their shield to see their situation, I said I bet this is the one run out of a hundred when they do not get a union over Aragon, and sure enough it's 1540 and Aragon are still a rival. Good grief.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4641818 - 01/30/24 10:47 PM Re: Europa Universalis, why no love 'round here? [Re: DBond]  
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JohnnyChemo Offline
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Originally Posted by DBond

Now I've kicked off a run as Ethiopia. Good start. I played them once before, as it's an interesting position, plus you're Coptic. In that run I had prepared for 80 years to war Mamluks, and when it was all in place and they were losing a war to Ottomans I hit them. Perfect plan. Perfect timing. I sieged all the way to Alexandria, occupied it, and then headed off to the east to fill in some provinces that Ottos had yet to occupy. Soon, all of it would be carpeted and we would have a stunning victory. Then Ottomans peaced out, taking territory closer to them, and returnng all the forts they had occupied near my armies to Mamluk control. The foul zone of control rules then locked my armies in place, and not together. To escape I had to siege down the forts. Mamluks recovered an army and then stack wiped each of my field armies in turn. Quit that run.


Talk about timing! Sounds like you had a solid plan. #%&*$# Ottos.

It's amazing how different each run of the game is!


Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.
This is known as "bad luck.”
-Robert Heinlein
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