#4033509 - 11/08/14 03:09 PM
Pilot Error to blame in Virgin Galactic Accident
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,612
KRT_Bong
It's KRT not Kurt
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It's KRT not Kurt
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,612
Sarasota, Florida
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...atal-crash.htmlMaybe they need to redesign the configuration control so this can't happen in the future. Sad, the realization of what he did must have been awful.
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#4033537 - 11/08/14 04:32 PM
Re: Pilot Error to blame in Virgin Galactic Accident
[Re: KRT_Bong]
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 15,158
No Name
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 15,158
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Wow. Terrible to #%&*$# things up like that when the stakes are so high.
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#4033549 - 11/08/14 05:01 PM
Re: Pilot Error to blame in Virgin Galactic Accident
[Re: KRT_Bong]
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,892
GrayGhost
Hotshot
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Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,892
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Every aircraft in the world can be destroyed with an easy/mistaken/disoriented pilot action.
Aviation is dangerous, that's why there's a lot of training happening for pilots - and some still believe that it is inadequate.
-- 44th VFW
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#4033558 - 11/08/14 05:29 PM
Re: Pilot Error to blame in Virgin Galactic Accident
[Re: Pielstick]
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,462
AggressorBLUE
Check out my
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Check out my
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,462
Jerz
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I should have worded it better - when I said action I mean a single cockpit operation or interaction that results in catastrophic failure.
I find it incredible that there was no interlock or measure to prevent the wings being inadvertantly feathered at the wrong stage of flight given the consequences of it happening would, as we have unfortunately seen, be disastrous. I'm thinking the same thing. For example, It's my understanding that many contemporary aircraft lock out the deployment of landing gear above a certain speed. Why would such a device not be implemented for the feathering feature in this case?
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#4033567 - 11/08/14 05:49 PM
Re: Pilot Error to blame in Virgin Galactic Accident
[Re: KRT_Bong]
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 410
Dachs
Member
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Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 410
Denmark
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There's some talk on an engineering site here, that it had become normal (mal?)practise to unlock the first safety latch, a bit early. This should be in order to let the feathers freewheel a bit, and thereby soften up the vibrations caused by the engine. Apparantly the length of the SS2 feathers, causes them to interfere a bit with the shockwaves from the rocket exhaust, resulting in severe vibrations.
All info from someone who supposedly knows someone, so should be taken with a grain of salt..
Fortes Fortuna Juvat
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#4033571 - 11/08/14 06:01 PM
Re: Pilot Error to blame in Virgin Galactic Accident
[Re: KRT_Bong]
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 19,794
adlabs6
Veteran
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Veteran
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Posts: 19,794
Tracy Island
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Sad to hear.
But as mentioned above, there are many instances in even general aviation where operating a single lever during the wrong phase of flight can bring on disaster.
WARNING: This post contains opinions produced in a facility which also occasionally processes fact products.
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#4033878 - 11/09/14 06:30 PM
Re: Pilot Error to blame in Virgin Galactic Accident
[Re: Pielstick]
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,204
DrZebra
crash-professional
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crash-professional
Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,204
steppe
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I'm wondering how such smart people with over a century of aeronautical experience to draw from would design a craft that allows the pilot with one mistaken action to initiate a catastrophic failure.
I may be cynical, but it would seem that Virgin Galactic are awfully keen to lead us to the conclusion it was the pilot's fault and not the aircraft. from whats know now, I´d rather say "the prodedures fault".. I can´t imagine the pilots of such a project not asking the engineers about early "unlocking" to feather engine vibrations... but apparently no thought through real procedure was made, so it was a bit of a grey area in exactly that area that makes the craft work, but also very vulnerable... I´m pretty sure behind the "pilot fault" verdict are actually a lot more people that had their share of this tragic accident. Still I hope they can recover and go on..
Last edited by DrZebra; 11/09/14 06:32 PM.
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#4035000 - 11/12/14 01:16 PM
Re: Pilot Error to blame in Virgin Galactic Accident
[Re: KRT_Bong]
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master
Entil'zha
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Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel
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Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
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For years it was the biggest hit in the UK, I forget how many!
The Jedi Master
The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
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#4035063 - 11/12/14 03:31 PM
Re: Pilot Error to blame in Virgin Galactic Accident
[Re: Pielstick]
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 24,029
oldgrognard
Administrator
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Administrator
Lifer
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 24,029
USA
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Not sure I agree with your POV. They were flying VFR. No sign of engine problems. We'll never know for sure, but pilot error seems the problem.
Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
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#4035100 - 11/12/14 05:06 PM
Re: Pilot Error to blame in Virgin Galactic Accident
[Re: oldgrognard]
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Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 22,854
Rick.50cal
Lifer
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Lifer
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 22,854
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Not sure I agree with your POV. They were flying VFR. No sign of engine problems. We'll never know for sure, but pilot error seems the problem. Well, read the whole thing. Special Forces pilots NOT known for risk taking. Visibility was inconsistent on the ground. But... 486 anomalies in just 18% of the engine FADEC coding??? Uncommanded power ups and power downs?!! Though there is no proof, the facts suggest its possible they intended to fly higher, above terrain, and experienced a sudden power down, crashing into terrain. I mean, the code was so bad, they stopped bothering to check the rest of it. Was it FADEC software that caused it? Or pilot error? I don't think we'll know for sure. But clearly that coding was seriously faulty, compromised beyond reasonable expectations. I'm sure its been re-written to be reliable since that time. If we make an estimate based on what was examined, its reasonable to conclude the FADEC software likely had in the region of 2400 faulty lines of code... for engines on a HELICOPTER(!!!!). Misbehaving engines are bad enough... but delinquent engines on a helicopter?!?! We know about auto-rotation as a safety procedure for helicopters. We know its practiced regularly by rotary students. But... it seems as if in real world helicopter accidents that its rare for helis to save themselves by this technique. It seems like any kind of failure on a heli usually leads to a bad crash, often with at least one fatality. Years ago a pilot told me virtually all aircraft accidents were the result of pilot error. Watching the entire Mayday series gives me the impression that certainly that is common, but that there are still many cases where poor maintenance, and poor design of components is still a factor (though diminishing as we improve aircraft design substantially from the early coffins into the super-safe airliners of today)
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#4035138 - 11/12/14 07:20 PM
Re: Pilot Error to blame in Virgin Galactic Accident
[Re: KRT_Bong]
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 24,029
oldgrognard
Administrator
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Administrator
Lifer
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 24,029
USA
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Yes, but the post crash investigation showed no signs of engine problems. I did read the whole thing.
Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
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CD WOFF
by Britisheh. 03/28/24 08:05 PM
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